[Poll] with multiple options for the changes to Naval Battles

[SilentTracker]

Multiple option poll for the current changes to Naval Battles, especially the changes to aiming for Naval Arcade battles. Votes are public. I plan on leaving this poll running indefinitely, at the very least until changes are made and/or reverted.

The only difference between Options #2 and #3 is to revert or keep the increased accuracy of AI botes (REVERTING Naval Arcade aiming, but keeping all other changes).

Option #4 is for those who LIKE the new Naval Arcade aiming, but want to ONLY REVERT the increased accuracy of AI botes (keeping all other changes).

Should the changes to Naval Battles be reverted?

• #1 - Yes, REVERT ALL changes to Naval Battles.
• #2 - ONLY revert the changes to Arcade aiming, including REVERTING the increased accuracy of AI botes. (And still keep the other changes detailed below.)
• #3 - ONLY revert the changes to Arcade aiming, BUT KEEP the increased accuracy of AI botes. (And still keep the other changes detailed below.)
• #4 - ONLY REVERT the increased accuracy of AI controlled botes. But KEEP all other changes (details below) including the new Arcade Aiming.
• #5 - No, KEEP ALL changes to Naval Battles.

I voted for option #2: “ONLY revert the changes to Arcade aiming, including REVERTING the increased accuracy of AI botes. (And still keep the other changes detailed below.)” I like the changes detailed below, but I detest the increased AI bote accuracy, even more than I dislike the change to Arcade Aiming.

Details for the new Naval Arcade aiming system:

Aiming Details

@Stona_WT

The aiming system in Arcade Battles has been changed. Now, the required lead value is generated automatically, taking into account the parameters of the player’s ship and the target ship’s movement. When aiming at the desired part of an enemy ship, the gunners will independently determine these parameters and take the required lead. In addition to reducing the chance of an aiming error, this change makes shooting at long distances (and especially on opposite courses) better, as the target will no longer be outside of the player’s field of view. In addition to this, the shell impact point marker and the FCS calculation update progress bar have been disabled in AB, since with the new aiming system, these elements are no longer necessary.

Details for “Loss of Unsinkability Mechanic”:

Unsinkability Details

@Stona_WT

The hulls of ships have had their strength mechanic returned, expanded and redesigned. All other methods of destroying an enemy remain the same, with the addition of a way to destroy its hull to such an extent that unsinkability is lost:

• Small and medium boats can be destroyed by the destruction of any of the hull sections. If one section accumulates damage comparable to what is needed to destroy all the sections of the boat, this will cause enough destruction, not allowing it to maintain combat capability and structural integrity.
• Large ships, from frigates to heavier ships , have been given a more complex system. When several sections of the hull are completely destroyed, the ship loses its unsinkability and begins to take on water until it is completely flooded. At the same time, the end (i.e. first and last) sections do not participate in this system. Now you need to destroy three sections to start the fatal processes. The strength of the sections depends on the class and size of the ship. It is selected in such a way that their destruction does not become a quick and easy task and will not be the primary way of destroying the ship in other ways familiar to players.
• You can track the condition of your ship’s hull using the additional section in the ship DM panel at the bottom left. The combat-ready crew indicator has been moved to the top and a scale with segments has been added next to it. Each segment corresponds to a section of the hull.
• The enemy’s hull condition can be assessed using the same scale under the hit camera when the enemy is in the sights.
• Due to the addition of loss of unsinkability, the non-repairable holes mechanic has been disabled.

Details for “Torpedo Hydraulic Shock”:

Torpedo Details

@Stona_WT

Torpedoes and mines now have the effect of hydraulic shock on ship hulls. Previously, torpedoes (mines) had an effect only by the force of the explosion of the torpedo’s explosive itself. We added the force of a hydraulic shock, the sphere of which also depends on the mass and type of explosive, as does the explosion. The destructive effect on the hull has now increased. At the same time, the chances of ammunition detonation, damage to modules and the crew remained the same. Note that this change directly echoes the loss of unsinkability as described above.

Change to Naval SL & RP rewards for destroying AI controlled botes:

SL & RP Details

@Stona_WT

In Naval Battles, the reward in Silver Lions and Research Points for destroying AI-controlled ships (both “named” bots and mission AI) has been increased to the level of the reward for players. AI-controlled ships in Naval Battles do not differ much in their combat efficiency from players, and the reward for damaging them (the main source of income in Naval Battles) was already equal to the reward for damaging players. Therefore, now the rewards for damage and destruction (finishing off the target) will not depend on who controls the target ship — a player or an AI.

[SilentTracker]

Some of my conclusions/thoughts about the changes:

War Thunder "Hornet's Sting" - Changelog

Alright, final conclusion, new Naval Arcade is absolutely terrible. Coastal, destroyers, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships. All of it. Having AI light cruisers laser beaming my battlecruiers and battleships from spawn. Setting me on fire for the entire match. Cant even repair my main guns because ALL of my aux and AA guns are perpetually destroyed and/or on fire. AND most of the time can’t even cancel the repairs because of the STILL existing bug where the ship will sta…

EDIT#1:
I am going to collect any other opinions/votes that do not fully fall within the options I presented:

1. “Option #6 - Keep AI aiming better, while revering ALL other changes”
2. “Option #7 - REVERT to old Naval Arcade Aiming, but with speed compensation as in WOWs”
3. “Option #8 - Nerf AI aiming some (especially against aircraft), but keep some of the improved AI accuracy”

Option #6 = 1 player
Option #7 = 1 player
Option #8 = 2 players

Posts from these other players will be updated below:

Edit #1 Details

Option #6:

@Ultramarinus

I didn’t see an option to keep only AI aiming better so I had to select revert all. Planes really have no place in naval battles so it’s good to prevent Hans Ulrich Rudel sinking Marat solo happening a dozen times per match. Other than that torpedoes being more deadly and auto-aiming failing to hit anything not moving straight line like a bot is bad.

Option #7:

@Kweedko

Why there is no option - replace aiming with old one but with player speed compensation just as in WOWs, as a compromise between old one and the new one? If you that need to aim green circle.

btw. bots firing planes from respawn with all guns is a bug, they using max range of gun instead of aiming soothing range as before.

Option #8:

@capnlunch

Now that I think about it, instead of reverting the AI aiming entirely, I’d prefer that they nerf it instead. There’s no way that an AI BMO should be able to accurately snipe my destroyer’s AA gunners from 5 km away and have gaijin claim that they’re just as accurate as the average player. The same goes for their accuracy against aircraft

@Josephs_Piano

IMO reverting the AA firing at everything within 10 km (or whatever it is) is something you could usefully add to you list as a separate item - ie revert to the light calibre AA only shooting at small boats and a/c.

EDIT #2:
Suggestions/ideas for further polls. I would like to wait at least a day or two before making yet ANOTHER poll thread. I would like to give as many players as possible the time to make as many suggestions as they would like before I create a secondary/follow up poll:

Edit #2 Details

@Jareel_Skaj

You want us to vote on 4 major changes, but all the questions are about the aiming system? I don’t understand what’s the point of this poll. It’s just slightly more complex version of the old poll about the aiming system with basically no added value.

Just do 4 surveys in one thread (yes, you can embed multiple surveys in a single post):

• New Naval Arcade aiming system
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert
• Loss of Unsinkability Mechanic
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert
• Torpedo Hydraulic Shock
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert
• Increased rewards for killing bots
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert

And you’d be done with it, no? 🤷‍♂️
The increased accuracy appears to be just an unintended consequence of the new aiming system.

You really over-complicated the whole thing. Make it clean & simple.

My reply to the post above:

@SilentTracker

Lol, your idea is far more complicated 😂 Yes, even with 4 or 5 separate polls. Again as I stated above, the main complaint among the majority of players is the aiming system and/or the greatly increased AI bot accuracy. I personally have not seen anyone complain about the Unsinkability, Torpedo Hydraulic Shock, or the Increased rewards for killing bots. So it makes the most sense to keep those 3 changes grouped.

I can add your suggestions as polls to my second post (I would put them behind a spoiler because the post will become massive), but those 3 changes are still minor in comparison to the vast majority of players taking issue with the new Naval Arcade Aiming, and the vastly increased accuracy of AI bots.

And/or I do plan on making another thread with new polls(s) for additional suggestions/further options. But, as the other poll was shut down (imo prematurely) we needed a new poll that will stay open for the duration. Hence my main poll here. So, I would prefer to wait a day or two to collect as many new ideas/options as possible before making yet another poll thread. I enjoy making polls, but too many too fast is counterproductive. Best to let as many people comment and make suggestions first. Like you have done with your recommendations 👍

EDIT #3:
Here is a list of the other threads which I have found discussing the current Naval Battle changes, for anyone who wishes to read as many opinions as possible about the topic:

Edit #3 Details

1. New ARCADE aiming
2. Navy Arcade Sucks Now
3. Naval mode is finally dead
4. Poll regarding new aiming system
5. Multiple unintended consequences of the changes to the Naval Arcade Battles
6. Bring back old naval aiming with some tweaks
7. I like the new naval arcade aim

[OwenHartEntrance]

How about Gaijin resigns and institutes a real random matchmaker that isn’t focused on engagement farming?
Would the game die?

[Ultramarinus]

I didn’t see an option to keep only AI aiming better so I had to select revert all. Planes really have no place in naval battles so it’s good to prevent Hans Ulrich Rudel sinking Marat solo happening a dozen times per match. Other than that torpedoes being more deadly and auto-aiming failing to hit anything not moving straight line like a bot is bad.

[SilentTracker]

@Ultramarinus

I didn’t see an option to keep only AI aiming better so I had to select revert all.

WELL, I kinda thought about that, but I don’t think they would keep only the increased AI aiming accuracy without reverting the increased SL & RP rewards for finishing off AI botes. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions, but I think your view will be the very small minority, SOOOO I didn’t want to clutter up the options even further lol.

I will edit my second post above with a tally of anyone else who has an opinion outside of the options I have in the poll (I will not edit the Poll, as it will reset all the votes.)

[wojtek_haj]

Voted 2
Rest makes it more realistic and rewards for AI boats… well it is a boat so …

[Kweedko]

Why there is no option - replace aiming with old one but with player speed compensation just as in WOWs, as a compromise between old one and the new one? If you that need to aim green circle.

btw. bots firing planes from respawn with all guns is a bug, they using max range of gun instead of aiming soothing range as before.

[SilentTracker]

@Kweedko

Why there is no option - replace aiming with old one but with player speed compensation just as in WOWs,

Good point, but I didn’t want to make the choices too numerous. And wanted to focus on the current state of the changes. I will add your view to my list on my second post. We can also make a second poll later with options for new possible changes. Especially after we collect and tally more ideas from players, like you posted 👍

[Kweedko]

And multiselect for that kind of polls is will mismatch the final percentages.

[SilentTracker]

@Kweedko

And multiselect for that kind of polls is will mismatch the final percentages.

I have multiselect OFF for this poll, that is what you prefer, correct? I do NOT think multiselect is a good idea for these types of polls.

[Kweedko]

oh it just visual, sorry my bad

[capnlunch]

Now that I think about it, instead of reverting the AI aiming entirely, I’d prefer that they nerf it instead. There’s no way that an AI BMO should be able to accurately snipe my destroyer’s AA gunners from 5 km away and have gaijin claim that they’re just as accurate as the average player. The same goes for their accuracy against aircraft

[Kweedko]

Ai guns always shot at 1 point on target. JTLYK

[capnlunch]

And JTLYK that’s meaningless considering that their accuracy is almost god tier at such long distances with small caliber autocannons which JTLYK was never the case before and the vast majority of naval players aren’t capable of

[Jareel_Skaj]

You want us to vote on 4 major changes, but all the questions are about the aiming system? I don’t understand what’s the point of this poll. It’s just slightly more complex version of the old poll about the aiming system with basically no added value.

Just do 4 surveys in one thread (yes, you can embed multiple surveys in a single post):

• New Naval Arcade aiming system
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert
• Loss of Unsinkability Mechanic
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert
• Torpedo Hydraulic Shock
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert
• Increased rewards for killing bots
  • Keep
  • Change (see comments)
  • Revert

And you’d be done with it, no? 🤷‍♂️
The increased accuracy appears to be just an unintended consequence of the new aiming system.

You really over-complicated the whole thing. Make it clean & simple.

[SilentTracker]

@Jareel_Skaj

Just do 4 surveys in one thread (yes, you can embed multiple surveys in a single post):

@Jareel_Skaj

You really over-complicate the whole thing. Make it clean & simple.

Lol, your idea is more complicated though 😂 Yes, even with 4 or 5 separate polls. As I stated above, the main complaint among the majority of players is the aiming system and/or the greatly increased AI bot accuracy. I personally have not seen anyone complain about the Unsinkability, Torpedo Hydraulic Shock, or the Increased rewards for killing bots. So it makes the most sense to keep those 3 changes grouped.

I do plan on making another thread with new polls(s) for additional suggestions/further options. But, as the other poll was shut down (imo prematurely) we needed a new poll that will stay open for the duration. So, I would prefer to wait a day or two to collect as many new ideas/options as possible before making yet another poll thread. I enjoy making polls, but too many too fast is counterproductive. Best to let as many people comment and make suggestions first. Like you have done with your recommendations 👍

Please take a moment to read my second post with the other opinions/votes/suggestions that I have already cataloged: [Poll] with multiple options for the changes to Naval Battles - #2 by SilentTracker

I greatly appreciate everyone’s inputs on this subject, and welcome any suggestions and/or criticisms. I will continue to catalog and tally all posts that add new ideas/suggestions/criticisms on my second post above.

I will consult with you guys before I make a new thread with new/more polls. I will post them in here first as tests and get your feedback on them before I make them “real”.

New/additional poll testing below. These polls are for testing only, I will be editing and modifying them so any votes can and will be reset. Do not take these as “real” polls yet.

Keep, Change, or Revert New Naval Arcade Aiming System?

• Keep
• Change (post your comment below)
• Revert

Sadly, polls don’t seem to work under the Spoiler thing, but going to do it anyway to save space on this post.

More Poll testing code

[poll type=regular name=Loss of Unsinkability Mechanic results=on_vote public=true chartType=bar]

• Keep
• Change (post your comment below)
• Revert

[/] [poll ][poll type=regular name=Torpedo Hydraulic Shock results=on_vote public=true chartType=bar]

• Keep
• Change (post your comment below)
• Revert

[/ [poll ][poll type=regular name=Increased rewards for killing AI Bots results=on_vote public=true chartType=bar]

• Keep
• Change (post your comment below)
• Revert

[/ [poll ]

[Josephs_Piano]

IMO reverting the AA firing at everything within 10 km (or whatever it is) is something you could usefully add to you list as a separate item - ie revert to the light calibre AA only shooting at small boats and a/c.

[SilentTracker]

@Josephs_Piano

IMO reverting the AA firing at everything within 10 km (or whatever it is) is something you could usefully add to you list as a separate item

I think that falls into the same general opinion as @capnlunch 's post: [Poll] with multiple options for the changes to Naval Battles - #12 by capnlunch

Option #8 on my second post. I am going to add you to the #8 tally for now (unless you disagree with that general option. Is ok if you don’t fully align with it, I am going to post your entire message under Edit #1’s spoiler/hidden section. I just want to have a nice concise collection of these additional opinions/suggestions.)

[SilentTracker]

Ok, interesting, glad I did some testing here. My first try got this warning/error when trying to add multiple polls to the same post:

I messed around with that, but I couldn’t figure it out what it wanted. BUT I did get it to work by adding this “name=” line. It sometimes adds this line when you insert a poll, if you click the gear icon and fill out the “Name” field, but NOT always lmao.

Screenshot of "name="

@Kweedko AND it looks like even though I got the desired result with my first poll, I SHOULD have done “Single Choice” poll instead of Multi. SO, you WERE right, I just changed the “max” field in the code to prevent multiple selections. ( @Kweedko 's post noticing oddness in my poll: [Poll] with multiple options for the changes to Naval Battles - #9 by Kweedko )

Code I used vs Code I should have used

This is the code I used in the top poll:
[poll type=multiple results=on_vote min=1 max=1 public=true chartType=bar]
But I SHOULD have done this:
[poll type=regular name=Should the Changes to Naval Battles be reverted? results=on_vote public=true chartType=bar]

Template of one of my test polls above if anyone wishes to copy the code easily without having to use the forum GUI (remove the two sets of triple ` marks at the top and bottom after copying.)

Single Choice Poll Template, with "name=" tag, only display results after voting, public votes, bar chart results.

[poll type=regular name=New Arcade Aiming System? results=on_vote public=true chartType=bar]
# **New Arcade Aiming System?**
* Keep
* Change (post your comment below)
* Revert
[/poll]

Thanks guys! Learning more to make the polls better.

EDIT: LOL, didn’t know you couldn’t change a poll after 5 mins either. Learning a lot today heh:

"You cannot change a poll after the first 5 minutes."

[Kalafina1]

Voted to revert the Arcade aiming changes. Really a terrible decision for the devs to introduce such a dramatic and awful change without the community’s consent.
In the unlikely event the devs do reconsider, at least this poll and the previous poll will give them some actual numbers to look at as well as all the unhappy comments on the forums (including my own).