Hello everyone,
This post is actually a long time coming at this point as its conception started when this came out.
What started this project it’s the state of the ITT and what’s being said in the post:
Even some larger operators still lack enough vehicles or vehicle variety to form a fully-fledged research tree, or at least struggle to form full lineups at certain Battle Ratings. Similarly in these cases we try to find nations with enough combat vehicles that could be added as a subtree to effectively add more gameplay options. Hungarian vehicles have helped the Italian tree for example. By including these vehicles here, stronger and more varied lineups can be created to improve gameplay.
I’m sorry to say but when it comes down to the implementation of the Hungarian subTT, to say that it was lazy and short sighted would be a compliment.
Few reasons:
All copy paste vehicles with not even a little care about the details of the models. (ex: Leopard 2A4 not even having the correct LMG, smoke positioning nor the ammo rack on the roof).
Instead of the standard T-72 we could’ve got the T-72 CURRUS.
T-55 SZRP, BMP-1(OWS-25), BMP-1 with the BTR-80A turret. All unique models.
The overall choice: while I do consider Hungary a good choice for their WW2 armament, the same can’t be said for their post world war industry, where Italy actually lacks in regards of SPAAs and MBTs.
The SubTTs should also come with interesting addition to attract the players to the nation, not endless copypaste vehicles.
Last but probably the most glaring issue: Devs couldn’t even be bothered to add the first half of the Hungarian Airtree line.
Now that we’ve underlined the problems, here’s the plan to address it:
Note: I’m going to concentrate from Rank VI onwards as it’s where the tree suffers more
Better incorporate the Romanian tech.
Hide copypaste tech in folders if possible.
Restructure the ITT so that can better incorporate addition like how it’s being done with the other TTs(ex: UK)
Aim to address the biggest weakpoints: SPAAs at high tiers and MBTs at top tier.
Always strive to make it as unique as possible to gather players’ interest.
My proposal is to incorporate a third nation, as Hungary’s vehicles are all already basically expended unfortunately.
The idea is to either implement Spain or Turkey.
Rank VI:
ASCOD LT-105LRF at 9.7
Rank VII:
Centauro II 105mm at 10.3
ASCOD LPT at 12.0
Rank VIII
ASCOD 2 MMBT at 12.0
Centauro II 120mm (Prototype) at 12.3
Centauro II 120mm at 12.7
Rank IX
A2CS with HITFACT MkII
SPAA line:
Rank VI:
BMR SIDAM 25 at 8.3 foldered behind the SIDAM
CA-95M at 9.0
Gepard R armed with A-94Ms at 9.3 foldered behind the CA-95M
BMP-1(OWS-25) at 9.7 foldered behind the SIDAM Mistral
Rank VII:
AMX-30 Roland Espana at 10.0
Rank VIII:
NASAMS 2 at 12.7
Rank IX:
MEADS
Patriot PAC-3 MSE
FSAF SAMP/T NG
IFV/ATGM Carrier line:
Rank VI:
M-41E HAKO at 8.7
Piranha V(Romania) at 9.3 foldered behind the VBC(PT2)
Rank VII:
MLI-84M at 10.7 foldered behind the Freccia
VCR Dragòn at 11.0
Rank VIII:
ASCOD II UT30MK2 at 11.3
Pizarro(Fase III)
VBM 30 NG
Rank IX:
Future Romanian IFV
A2CS HITFIST
SubTree Line:
Rank VI:
TR-580 at 8.7
TR-85-800 at 9.0 foldered behind the TR-580
The TR-125 at 9.3 let’s us move the T-72M1 in a folder.
TR-85M1 at 9.7
Rank VIII:
Leopardo 2E at 12.7
Leopardo 2E “Tortuga” at 12.7
Rank IX:
Leopardo 2E M2+
Future Romanian MBT
Premium/event line:
Rank VI:
LEOX at 8.3 as an event vehicle
T-55SZRP at 8.7 as an event vehicle
RN-94 (Dragar) at 9.0 as an event vehicle
TR-85M1R at 9.7 as a premium vehicle
Rank VII:
T-72M CURRUS at 10.0 as a premium vehicle
MLVM-M at 10.3 as an event vehicle
Leopard 2A4 NEMUS at 10.7 as a premium vehicle
Rank VIII:
M1A2R at 12.3 as a squadron vehicle
Rank VI:
MB339K at 10.0
Rank VII:
MB345 at 10.7
Rank VIII:
MB346FA 13.0
Typhoon Tranche 1 moved to this line
Rank IX:
Typhoon Tranche 3
Strike aircraft line:
Rank VI:
MB339CD at 9.3
AV-8S at 9.7
Rank VII:
EAV-8B at 11.3
Rank IX:
F-35B Block 3I
F-35B Block 3F
Romanian/Spanish line:
Rank VI:
IAR-93A at 8.3
IAR-93MB at 9.0
Rank VII:
Mirage IIIEE at 10.3
MiG-21 LanceR A at 11.7
MiG-21 LanceR C at 12.0 foldered behind the LanceR A
Rank VIII:
Mirage F1M at 12.0
EF-18A at 12.7
Rank IX:
F-16AM M6.5.2 at 14.7
EF-18M at 14.7
Hungarian line:
Rank IX:
JAS 39EBS HU MS 20 Block 2 at 14.7
C.16 Tranche 3A
Premium/Event/Squadron:
Rank VIII:
SF-5A at 12.0 as an event vehicle
EF-18A+ at 13.0 as a premium
F-16AM M5.2 at 13.7 not sure if to have it as an event or a squadron
Some thoughts regarding this tree:
The BR of the Mirage F1M, the Hornets and the SF-5A were all based on the addition of the AIM-9JuLi, a modified J with the guidance seeker of the 9Li, basically an IRCCM Juliet sidewinder.
The Spanish I’ve put in the hungarian line can would make more sense in the romanian/spanish line but I felt it would make the hungarian line quite empty addition wise.
NOTE: The post will be updated with the details or suggestions about the vehicles proposed.
There also vehicles behind folders that I will list ASAP.
I will also put down some thoughts on how it was approached.
Another subtree would be welcomed, although imo they could still move their focus on the implementation of unique designs/modifications from Romania and Hungary, as well as Italy itself.
PS if they leave Hungary and Romania (though it isn’t even called a subtree) as they are now with the main focus on copypasting and most of unique stuff being event/BP/premium, it’s hard for me to understand their choice at the first place. I mean with a focus on copypaste Spain would do the same thing as Hungary without “Sovetization” of the Italian TT, Leopard 2E instead of 2A7HU, F-18 instead of Gripen, Mirages/Phantoms/F-5 instead of MiGs and etc.
You have a “special” definitions of copypaste and unique stuff, it’s well known. In general copypaste can be more or less subjective, but from my point of view:
Out of 29 (14 ground, 14 air, 2 helicopters) vehicles in the regular tree 20 are copypaste.
Out of 14 premium/event 5 are copypaste.
Overall there are 43 Hungarian and Romanian vehicles in the Italian TT (29 regular and 14 premium/event).
Something like 2A7HU, Tigris, He-112 and PzH2000 can also be considered copypaste, but I see them as unique modifications at least, can’t say the same thing about Bf-109F-4 with removed landing gear covers, it’s still copypaste.
It’s Italian TT and subtree could be a different nation, there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion and having a discussion about how it could be with a different choice.
Not even close to true, they have plenty more soviet vehicles (T-34, T-55) and also have some with unique modifications.
As for Romania, despite being an official subtree they have barely any of their needed additions as of yet. In reality Romania actually has far more unique vehicles for ground.l
As for air, we dont even have the promised low ranking Hungarian line yet, and we also still lack top tier Romanian vehicles (which would actually be unique)
The voting doesnt have a NO option, but im going to say no. Adding another subtree is just a horrible idea in my opinion because remember that the company that owns this game is gaijin. The only “addition” from a new subtree would be a F-18 and some copy paste. Id rather have the unique Hungarian and Romanian vehicles that are long overdue come to the game
Additionally, I looked at the passed suggestions for each nation, and Im pretty sure Italy has the most suggestions passed to devs out of all nations. Id rather see them come to them game because they would actually be unique and fun.
Problem is not a lack of potential vehicles, problem is gaijin itself. Keep in mind Italy has a fairly large defense industry, larger than a few nations ingame. Romania also had/has a pretty good defense industry, I especially want to see their WW2 vehicles
@YaSen
You can call dictionaries special all you want, it won’t change the fact I use the terms the majority of the planet understands. In-fact, you’re using the same exact definition I am. I know this because you’re correctly counting Tigris and PzH 2000HU as unique vehicles.
Most that slightly deviate toward personal bias would at least consider Tigris “copy-paste”.
Indeed there are 5 copy-paste premiums.
Bf 109 G-2, Bf-109F4, and Mi-24P.
He-112, and Hs 129.
So of the tech tree vehicles.
Mig-29 [cockpit], 2A7HU, BTR-80A, KF41, Turan II, Zrinyi II, Turan I, Csaba. And technically the 2S1. One of them is the unique one, and the other is copy-pasted off of it. It’s up for interpretation on which you want to consider which.
Also I count 25 total removing the premiums and adding the singular Romanian vehicle.
Both options could be a good addition to the already existing subtree, especially at higher tiers, where the existing one can and will only be able to provide few vehicles. I personally prefer the Turkish one.
I know it’s difficult, really really difficult, but maybe try taking a look at what’s in the post before commenting.
Thanks for your constructive input, cheers.
Didn’t miss it, it’s not a suggestion therefore it’s not required, the poll is aimed to those who are interested in fixing the ITT, a “neither” option here would be usefull only to harmful actors.
About the Tiger, tbf it’s not something I long for, I put it in the tree as it wouldn’t make sense to not put it in. If Gaijin wants to leave it to Germany, I’m more than open to it, in that case it could be harming the spanish playerbase that would probably want everything under the same tree.
Personally, if I have it cool, if I don’t have it cool anyway.
I counted this one as unique, despite it was introduced in the past as Hungarian in the German TT, because it’s more like reintroduction than copypaste, just like Italian planes (including SM.79B under Romanian flag) which were previously placed in the German TT.
I read the post, still dont know how you came to the conclusion we need another subtree when the ones we have arent fully implemented. You yourself point that out and then go on to state we need another subtree. Dont really understand that logic
