Discussion: Sim EC Mk2 - PvE updates for the next Gen of aircraft

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This is fully open for discussion, Im interested in hearing what others think and this is initially just my opinion. This is a copy/paste from old forum with updated suggestions/ideas

As it currently stands, as far as I am aware (I haven’t really touched low BR Air Sim) the PvE objectives are essentially identical whether you are flying EC1 or EC9, just with different vehicles. Whilst at lower BRs certain objectives make sense and have historical merit, at the top BR, those same missions feel a little dated. In an era of guided bombs and jets happily cruising at Mach 1+ at 50ft, is a large FSB, ideal for carpet bombing at 20’000 ft, really still appropriate? Instead, what about a hardened target, meant to be locked onto and hit with a 2k Paveway or similar weapon instead?

This goes for a lot of target types, instead of intercepting waves of medium altitude attackers/bombers (6x attack attackers/bombers and 2x escort which are in desperate need of a new, more modern aircraft than the F-86), what about intercepting a flight of 4x jets at lower alts, or even 1-2 strategic bombers at much higher altitudes, like 30k ft?

Same for intercepting a recon aircraft. We could continue to have a recon aircraft as we do, though prehaps be changed to a drone. but could also have something large such as an AWACS, that is flying high, again, prehaps as much as 30k ft but instead of flying over hostile territory like the drone could, it instead remains well back, prehaps even above friendly AFs, forcing players to engage these targets by actually entering deep within “enemy territory” to destroy.

The game has a real issue at the moment, with targets at altitudes easily interceptable in WW2 era props, but are laughably low for a 1990s era jet. So prehaps spreading targets out, and increasing some to be at 30-40k would give the game some much needed dynamic gameplay and force people off the deck.

This is along side some very much needed improvements to their AI/Flight paths, which often cause them to crash, suicide into AA or just get… for a lack of better word… lost

As for ground targets, we need some new objectives on that front. Convoys are just insane, and whilst this isnt a discussion about their SPAA, it is certainly a factor to be considered. These targets are extremely hard to deal with, and often need mutliple sorties to destroy fully. so prehaps change them to only have 2-3 targets that need to be destroyed to complete the objective and the rest is just escort, again, play to the fact that many attacking aircraft have smart weapons, It means players have a reason to use them.

Same for battlefields, could this be updated, with engagements that force players to think? I often engage these in a Harrier Gr7 by firing off 4x AGMs at max range before turning for home, often giving 4x ground kills. Prehaps instead these targets need a different approach, this is one area im not sure of.

Naval targets are not too bad, but definetly things like the carrier need to be updated, it rewards little for the effort it requires.

Other missions that could be added include:

scouting a target using a targetting pod or flying over an area (essentially make the player into a recon plane)

SEAD Operations, taking out AA around a target location

Intercepting/escorting a flgiht of Helicopters, could be dynamic and follow on from the SEAD mission

Taking out specific buildings in a city using guided weapons, an enemy target surrounded by friendly buildings requiring precision not TK. (not my idea, but a very good idea i’ve seen previously on the forums)

Taking out HVTs, finding and destroying a single, fast moving ground vehicle within a general area. Think taking out a recon plane, but instead its a jeep on the ground. (though I do not think the jeep should be marked on the map like convoys, instead you need to locate it upon the roads within a grid reference. This certainly would increase the value of targetting pod armed aircraft)

As we get more advanced/modern aircraft, dealing with the same PvE targets as you do in Inter-war biplanes is slightly… depressing. We need EC Objectives that reflect the era of the aircraft flown in that EC Bracket. Especially when you consider that many jets may be designed for that era, and struggle with objectives of a different era or complete them with such ease, its almost laughable.

I am eager to hear what other ideas people have.

7 Likes

Good suggestions.

They need to work on Ground based Radars . . .this Radar network can also be a valuable ground target and losing Radars, could cause blank spaces on the battle map for the team.

You could have Radar tracks marked on the mini map, those that have IFF, have been identified or are confirmed enemies . . .

That would be an asset well worth protecting and fighting for.

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Yeah it would. currently i think ground based SPAA radar doesnt actually do anything, at least it cant be stopped with Chaff. So an overhaul of how ground based radar in Sim worked would be very interesting. Im also hoping we’ll see HARM in the near future as well

Need modern air defenses like SA 6 s-300 , crowtail etc…

Maybe… We’ve had big enough issues with Gepards sniping down planes at long range, imagine being shot down by a S-300 at 30km in the middle of a dogfight. They need to be careful with it. and it needs to be implemented the right way. Also I doubt they’ll add ground targets that we dont have in the tank trees. So it will be mostly mobile SPAA/SAM.

I expect new map for sim EC minimum 186 x 186 km or maximum 220 x 220 km

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Bigger maps would be good. I also wonder if they should still be square. Even if we kept the width we had now, but double the length, it would make for far more interesting matches

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You guess new Air EC map 160 x 160 km it enough minimum for aircraft 12.0-12.7 in Air simulator battle ?

Maybe, got to remember that we are nearing mach 2 jets with fire and forget 50km range AMRAAM. Going to need leg room to use them right. I already find that the current maps can be too small

Hm, rather not as long as we don’t have tools to counter it, like anti radar weapons and ECM…

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Yes, Anti-Radiation missile would be a really great addition. ECM Jamming pods . . .that’s relatively newer tech, but Yes. Ground based radars, AWACs . . .all of this is needed for the higher tiers

At present the Airfield destruction part of the game is very 1 dimensional and pretty much locks the entire game mode into a rinse and repeat style of play. There need to be more strategic targets and airfields need to be a high risk part of the menu that should require coordination and planning to attack.

I know its a tall ask, but like every sport, there are layers, there are the masses who play for fun, there are the real players, who play competitively, who take the game seriously and then there is Apex of the game where the greatest and toughest of challenges lie, for the true connoisseur.

The Apex of any sport is crucial to the entire game universe, it is the place all players aspire to and provides a great source of motivation and determination to excel at that sport. Players at the Apex are who inspire everybody, like Messi, Ronaldo, Khabib, Mayweather

SIM should be that part of the WT universe, it does not matter that few players play the mode, the jewel at the top of a crown takes up little place, but it is what makes the entire crown a thing of great value. It is supposed to be the top of the triangle.

To put a piece of pretty glass or costume jewelry a top of a crown, debases the entire concept.

This is where WT has gone wrong, SIM is supposed to be SIM, it is supposed to be hard and brutal, it is supposed to be for the Apex predator, to simplify it, turn it into an easy mode for grinding, simply cheapened the entire WT universe and instead of a Mode that forces enthusiast to look upon this beautiful mode in awe . . .you have the farmers abuse and exploit the mode for an easy ride. The Triangle got turned upside down and instead of adding value and revenue, it ended up exploiting the economy and ruining the game play and losing really valuable players and content creators who marketed the game for free.

I always said WT was not ready for the can of worms that modern combat would open and we should have gone back to WW-I till we were ready, but here we are. So there is really no option but to put in the hours needed to complete this battle field with all of its nuances and caveats . . . the alternate is to limp along putting out pretty models of new vehicles and always knowing that its a cheap imitation and not the real Jewel that it should have been.

This game has huge potential, it is been 10 years, and I still love it, my kid started playing when he was 4, and he is now 14 and he still plays it, he knows every tank like the back of his hand and we still talk about WT and work on the game. I look forward to introducing him to SIM and all the Aircraft I have in the hanger, just a little worried about the stress that Head tracking will put on his eyes, so I hold off a little. Ruined my eyes :D already.

So I hope Gaijin really puts its heart into this mode and really fleshes it out into a real Modern combat SIM . . .when I say I play WT Sim . …I want other flight sim players to pee their pants a little.

PS: The mission creator really needs some work to make it quick and easy to make missions.

3 Likes

I agree! 100%! but this can only become reality if Sim is completely decoupled from AB and RB as a separate Sim game.

it’s unfortunately unrealistic that our sim mode will get a big polish. the developers would never develop extra features just for sim without considering the mass of AB and RB players. that’s why I think it’s so important that sim becomes a separate game called “War Thunder Simulator”. without AB and RB.

which are of course pipe dreams. but some PC games are created from private mods.
maybe another developer company will go exactly the way we Sim players wish?..

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what’s your problem? should we call a doctor for you?

if players like Twisted wish for a little more sim feeling, that’s legitimate! or do we have to ask you for permission first?

It may, it may not. One thing is certain though. If we dont try, then nothing will happen. Weve already seen a number of improvements because of people putting in suggestions. Will we see a truly realistic sim, no, i doubt it. But i do think we can see something better than we have. Even just 10% of what weve asked for added when be a major improvement

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…I don’t know what you want? I wrote above myself that some wishes here are unfortunately unrealistic. but we are allowed to express wishes here. that’s what this forum is for!

instead of patronizing people here, write what you want! then we will see how creative you are.
goodbye and have a nice evening
muppets-muppet-show

you are surely right.

i think they should add progressive airfields like the ones in helicopter sim pve, but these airfields are not marked on the map for the enemy team but are easier to take out; the team that they are on can see them on the map but cannot spawn there, only land there to rearm and refuel (and the replacement of landing gear for people who break them) and are guarded by spaa like gepards that only shoot when a target is perceived a threat, and are only accurate when the target is within range to damage the airfield. to counter players flying higher and dropping bombs if the ground spaa guarding the airfield spots a player high but not within range yet it can alert people nearby about the general area the target is in for people to take them out, this paired with bigger maps would be a dream.
forgot to add, these airfields only spawn further in when the area has been “claimed” which just means that it is clear from enemies and is in friendly lines behind the main centre line in the map, to make this easier Air SB would start off with enemy ground forces in grid squares across the friendly lines but, the grid squares are only highlighted in red. a plane with a targeting pod can mark the area in the map, quite like a drone and relay it to the whole team so they know where it is and can attack accordingly
to modernise higher tier more, they should make it so the main airfields have Roland 2’s instead of ones to make the defence of them better and to suicide rocket an airfield it requires more preparation and carefulness, and destroying airfields needs to be a team effort with planning and coordination, along with big rewards for doing so.

i also think that they should increase the rewards along with these changes, as to make more people play sim and to make it more worthwhile when you play. i also do think that increasing the rewards per important action (eg destroying ground targets or player air targets) is increased since (without premium) if you take off, jill someone and die shortly after you are rewarded poorly no matter the effort, and can lead to a negative monetary spiral making people not play simulator, it should be something you make money from more often considering the mode is harder to learn and play (especially if they add these changes listen in the forum) i also do think that for simulator they should increase the height you gain a contrail at, to around 8km high, this is because it would let people get off the deck more often making gameplay more fun for both parties and also making actions on attacking ai easier without being slammed by a radar missile from a player.

equally, i agree that they should add an awacs that can relay information to the friendlies, along with a ground radar system closer to the main airfield (about 1-2grids away from the main airfield so players trying to destroy them will be spotted, this is in conjunction with the whole making airfield destruction more co-ordinated and rewarding) they should also make the ground radar systems use either IR missiles (like the strela or stinger) or roland 1’s depending on map sizes

Yeah, Forward AFs could be quite an interesting addition. Roland 2s could help a lot, but we have a big enough issue with the Gepards currently :P. Hoping though if we ever see ARM, that we’d get an overhaul of how SPAA is deployed in SB

rest of it I agree completely

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Hey can we get some eyes on this from the community!

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So you are telling me it’s time to implement the Wild Weasels!!! I really wanna see HARM now that we’ve somehow made it all the way to ARH without it.

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