Enduring Confrontation feedback and thoughts



As I’ve not found any recent topic or discussion on new version of WT forum I’ve decided to try to run a new discussion here.
In recent months I play almost only enduring confrontations - also I see that after last little econony improvement EC mode became little popular - I would really appreciate some discussion about EC.
Also I hope we can generate some feedback that can be used in some future improvement of EC.
I will focus on top tiers 9.3 to 12.0 as I am playing it most but I think that topic may be general feedback for EC

To the start - after last update I see that the airfields defense (Rolands and short range SPAAs) became much less effective. It’s now almost possible to run by a airfield runway, hit something with R60M and fly away without being killed. Also carriers air defence is almost switched off so taking off or landing on carrier is critically dangerous.
Otherwise - the SPAAs on ground confrontation mini battles, convoys or bases are still too effective.
I don’t know if it’s only my feeling - but I see the setup of airfield defense much worse (not effective) while spaas on battlefields and convoys are too effective.

I see also that BR are usually different than on SB - sometimes it’s good, but I see that BR 11.0 on premium MiG 23-ML is a bit too low taking in count buff of R24T. Basically MiG 23-ML is paid MiG 23-MLA/MLD.
While MLA and MLD are on 11.3/11.3/11.3, the premium MIG 23-ML is 11.3/11.3/11.0 which makes it 11.0 on sims where it’s R24T and R24R are making lot of difference. I don’t really see a reason why (besides of being paid) it should be biased with BR 11.0 on sims.

Another thing is that EC needs some really good ideas, different types of tasks, improvement of existing tasks. To be honest we are 7-8 years after introducing Enduring Confrontation to sims - and I dont see any progress. It looks more like it is already forgotten by responsibles. I hope with some good ideas to be shared here we may find some way to approach responsibles with good ideas to improve EC.



This. A lot.

We’re basically still flying WW2 missions with modern aircraft.

What I’d love to see are point targets for GBU’s (e.g. individual, hard to hit buildings, bridges,…). ATM GBU’s have close to zero functionality in Sim EC, and you fare better by bringing dumb bombs. But that’s not what a modern battlefield looks like.

And PLEEEEASE fix the really bad AI aircraft: They really don’t work at all, especially the base defenders. Also they should represent era and country setup better, and why not script their flightpaths better so they feel more realistic.

In general, also selectable country setups should be improved. Why USSR, China, Japan and Germany need to fight US, UK and Israel is quite beyond me in a “Sim” environment in a post WW2 world. Why not NATO vs. WP?Japan and US vs China and Russia? Israel vs (for lack of specific neighboring countries) Russia?

Then a lot should be done in the area of instrumentation: We completely lack any navigation functionality, or even the possibility to select the mission target we want that doesn’t rely on trying to point your nose at it and toggle through all targets, hoping you see the marker for the base you want!

Just to mention a few first points… = )


I’ve got this discussion on going for some of the points, And I totally agree with the Mig-23ML, it makes no sense. Especially when the premium F4s are actually higher than their tech tree counter-parts more often than not


Another thing that I forgot to add is abusing opened canopy on top tiers. Opened canopy is kind of useful and even immersive option to fly on ww2 era - with some minor penalty to speed.
But on top tiers pilot could even die when you fly more than 700kmh. There is already some speed and drag penalty added but I see that noone cares still lot of pilots using opened canopy especially on MiGs 21 and 23.
Probably they cut off canopy to get better view without mirror above the pilot. But they also get better situational awarness. They even hear my planes approaching them on 6 when I’m flying without radar and 0% thrust.
It’s the same with A-10, which also can fly too fast with opened canopy to keep pilot alive.
I think if not getting pilot die above some speed with opened canopy - some stamina penalty in manuevers should be good thing.


Another thing that I forgot to add is abusing opened canopy on top tiers

This is a very good observation and I agree, jets shouldn’t fly around with open canopies. There should be stamina penalties making it easier to black out at high speeds, and, possibly, pilot death if you breach the sound barrier. Flying around with open canopy on a jet is pretty much using an exploit, people lose them in MiGs because soviet planes have awful cockpits. Moreover, it lets people listen for incoming threats, I’ve played a few games like this in the past and it provided a noticeable awareness advantage.

Asides from that, American planes are in a fairly bad spot at 11.3 BR. F5E has no IFF on its radar, only two missiles, and an okay-ish gun. F4J is a rather weak plane that forgoes its predecessor’s improved maneuverability (no agile eagle modification, only F4E and F4S have it). RB players would argue that the radar is pretty good (because they don’t need to IFF most of the time) but it doesn’t matter since its doppler mode has no IFF meaning a lot of times you’ll have to merge to ID your opponent or take a risk and shoot at an unidentified target. IRL you wouldn’t be able to interrogate singular targets on radar - that is true, but you’d still be able to tell from which direction an ally is coming in. If the F4J at least had the ability to do that, then it would become a somewhat decent missile-truck. Honestly, given how all soviet aircraft at that BR have all-aspect missiles, I don’t see why F4J wouldn’t get AIM9L, but that would prolly be too OP on RB…


hello camel here,

yes about SSPA:

the problem is the rotation. the SSPA rotates with it!
that’s why we have the 10.0+ SSPA in 9.0 and in 8.0 and so on… Gaijin is not testing this enough.
I got massacred by the SSPA yesterday in the F-84F Thunderstreak. I had no chance to bomb a ground target at 1000 k/mh. it was so extreme and sucked.

A second thing that needs to be fixed is the nation settings, including the AI units.

would be the solution:
ww2 Settings: Axis - Allies for ww2 aircraft and cold war Settings; Nato - dictatorship countries for jets.
so the way a real flight simulation would build it

it’s all messed up. I had yesterday again US AI units as an opponent although I flew myself USA.

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Whilst i agree. And there are certainly a few who do abuse it. It is something handled client side not server side. If i understand correctly. So it can look to be open for you, but in reality be closed. Definetlu should have something to deal with the few who do abuse it, but i think most dont

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Gaijin has the assets to make one of the best Air Sims on the market. I wish they’d step up, listen to some suggestions, and make EC as great as it could be.

I like the current setup for WWII planes. And I totally agree that new assets and objectives need to be thought out for modern jets.

Also, trains would be a cool addition for targets. And when convoys appear, please don’t make them all the way on the other side of the map, behind enemy bases. CAS and bomber players need more interesting targets to go for besides airfields.


We can see the gear when it’s down, I don’t see why cockpit canopy wouldn’t be the same.
I see it in every larger match at least once - someone with an open canopy. Some people when confronted about it even respond “heh what you gonna do about it” it is an issue, albeit not a large one, thankfully.


Most of the time when I complain on chat about the ppl with opened canopy - the answer from abuser is almost always - “wtf man, how could I fly with that awful mirror above my pilot” or “my opened canopy don’t give any advantage so why you complain”. So from my experience opened canopy is not that often only a visual bug.
It’s bug that we see it opened when it is actually cut off already.

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So why even open it?

Sounds very iffy…


From what I recall, they changed the nation lineup to combat the user creation rooms that had 100% freedom to setup their own nation lineup. All due to dishonest users abusing it to setup farm lobbies with Italy being picked only for team 2.

But, I’m not sure what their logical thinking process was when creating the list by coping the same nation lineup list from air RB.

Example: one nation setup to assign multiple nations on team 1, and team 2 only has three minor nations.

These nations lack proper lineups at most BR levels for a long time, including aircraft that are competitive.

All they did is make it easier for those who setup farming lobbies to use these certain nations on the list. You can’t make lists with major nations vs minor nations. You have to evenly divide them with both teams to make that system work.

Of course that also brings us into the other problem. Both sides having similar aircraft that can increase TK situations.

While I really like the idea of historical antagonist nation teams, in practice there are some BR rotations that are bad for one or more sides. With the difficulty of getting matches at some BRs, I would prefer more possible national grouping options.

One issue these random nation matchups would create is a higher likelihood for the same plane to appear on both sides. My best suggestion for helping this is required wing and tail decals that identify the team for “random” nation groups.

I definitely agree that AI units should be fixed to match the country team configuration and probably the bottom or middle BR of the bracket. It’s incredibly frustrating to properly identify a unit only to get a friendly kill because the AI units don’t respect the team countries.

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That may help in prop tiers, but it still won’t mitigate the TK problem in top-tier due to most jet aircraft having BVR combat capabilities.

Too many inexperienced players jump in there without understanding proper visual ID, or reading their IFF on their radar when their aircraft has it. Let alone apply some common sense to verify the target’s ID before pulling that trigger.

yes another problem of course is what we have the AB/RB tech trees in Sim.
So EC would need “Sim tech trees” in combination with “Sim Nation Settings”.
Of course you can’t rebuild something like that as a PvP game in 5 minutes. because of balancing etc. you said it right.

I just think: how would a “real” flight sim do it? they would juggle history and balancing until it fits.

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I don’t know what the best solution is either. but as the nation settings are now it is not acceptable. it’s like a developer mistakenly mixed up SIM EC and RB.

I’ve got WT booted up right now and it says “The event has ended” in Events & Tournaments. Will it start again this weekend? I’ve been playing EC for several months and I’ve never seen this before.

Which EC?

Naval EC - it’s been having issues this weekend.

@fuccboii9000 the Sim EC version is still available. You’ll find it in the Events & Tournaments window under Air Simulator Battles.

When you select it, then just click the Room List tab at the lower-left, next to the region server selector. This will open the EC lobby list, and you can join whatever game is available at the moment, or create a new one.

When isn’t it :D

But that does make sense