The sim community is not you and a few individuals. Huge amounts disagree with this being changed
5 Likes
Multipathing should barely be a thing at top tier across the board, not just in Sim. Not only do we get more advanced radar sets, but missiles like the AIM-7M, R-27ER, and pretty much all Fox 3s have much better filters for multipathing. Firing an AIM-7E at a target flying at 50 meters above the ground should obviously miss, but firing an AIM-7M or an an AIM-120 in the same scenario shouldn’t miss 100% of the time like it does now.
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Strange take when the overwhelming majority of sim and RB players are literally screaming for this to be changed
17 Likes
overwhelming ? i don’t think so.
Beyond yesterday you’d barely see any posts about sim in months. The sudden change in that doesn’t indicate that its the “majority” taking a stand.
3 Likes
Theres was a large push on the forums to get changes in to the simulator game-modes last year, something like a consistent 6 months of active threads asking for change between last summer and around December.
The result?
Not a single acknowledgment whatsoever from the devs, not even a comment/reply from a community manager on any of them.
Most discussions about sim happen in the Simulator discords, where this is indeed something an overwhelming majority of the community wants changed.
9 Likes
Theres was a large push on the forums to get changes in to the simulator game-modes last year, something like a consistent 6 months of active threads asking for change between last summer and around December.
I wasnt active on the forums during that time, but can you link one of them?
Most discussions about sim happen in the Simulator discords, where this is indeed something an overwhelming majority of the community wants changed.
I find it difficult to believe that the majority of sim players talk about sim on “discord”, thats like saying the majority of GRB players complain about planes on “reddit”. Thats only a small minority compared to the the total.
What im asking here is, prove me wrong, pull up the numbers that its really a majority, cause numbers dont lie and we can both make assumptions
Here’s a few
Spoiler
Sim community wishlist - small fixes/changes
Player count in top tier sim
Enduring Confrontation feedback and thoughts
Ground SB has to be more immersive
NATO vs WP in EC setup
Sim Rewards are absolutely unaccaptable
Air Simulator Battle Rewards - #107 by cpt_nosh
Multipathing needs to go
New BR brackets for SB
IFF issues in top-tier Sim Air battles
Guide on me
Air sim top tier economy
Well, like any game - the ‘majority’ of sim players don’t talk anywhere, there’s up to 200k concurrent players at times in War Thunder, but less than 300 are likely “active posters” on the forum. That’s why I said an overwhelming majority of the community. It’s pretty unanimous in sim discords with 500+ members and of course anyone is free at any time to argue against it, like you are now. Discussion is good, that’s why I made this thread, so we can talk about potential issues and concerns regarding implementation.
9 Likes
Multipath is one of the best mechanics in the game and does wonders for the gameplay aspect. If it was nerfed or removed there would be a mass exodus of players as the game would extremely quickly become unplayable. I hope you make a poll so you can be downvoted to oblivion. Nothing about this game is “realistic” and it should not strive to be realistic in every aspect. Noone that is good at the game thinks multipath is a bad mechanic.
9 Likes
This should apply not just to the barely played Simulator mode, but also for Realistic battles.
11 Likes
I disagree, if you read my posts I’ve explained in detail why I think it’s bad for gameplay, so have a good amount of other people in here.
Also this thread is for Simulator Battles, not RB. I’m suggesting using SB as sort of a playtest. Although a lot of people seem to want this change in RB too. Just pointing it out since you’ve hardly touched Air Sim whatsoever. Certainly not top-tier
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From War Thunder’s official page “About the game” section:
War Thunder is the most comprehensive MMO military game (…) dedicated to aviation, armoured vehicles, and naval vessels (…)
In War Thunder, aircraft, attack helicopters, ground forces and naval vessels collaborate in realistic competitive battles.
Over 2,500 highly detailed aircraft, helicopters, ground vehicles, warships and other combat vehicles crafted carefully from historical documents and surviving sources.
War thunder is and has always been a game that has taken pride into diving into as much realism as possible while remaining “arcade” in the sense that it can be played by anyone with a mouse and keyboard. The magic of War Thunder is combining realistic damage models, physics, ballistics and war machinnery behaviour with arcade-like controls (except for the Simulator mode).
15 Likes
IIRC the Aim-54s shouldn’t suffer from multipathing because they can hit cruise missile targets from 50 ft above water.
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So effectively writing off 2 classes of missiles is “one of the best mechanics in game”? The only reason mutipath is still in effect is because the matchmaker is still stuck at 16v16 and the devs are seemingly incapable of making new game modes.
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Where are they? The people you’re talking about are very few in number
2 Likes
If this change only happened in sim I have no horse in the race, however if this change became present in Realistic Battles I would be completely opposed to it.
Firstly, I do not believe the format of 16v16 would benefit from a reduction in the effectiveness in multipathing because I believe it would exacerbate the effect of early eliminations on the snowball effect. If your team has even a few people less that are trying to engage in BVR you will simply be forced to defend until you are destroyed or your opponents give up. I don’t believe there is much recourse here as closing within your MAR isn’t favorable and you have no way to aggress if you chose to go cold.
Secondly, I believe this will create a huge balance issue at the battle ratings where planes with pulse doppler radar first appear. I don’t believe it will be feasible for planes like the J-35XS (10.7 in RB) to have much counterplay against a plane like the F-4S (11.3) or MiG-23MLD (11.3) because simply getting close to use your cannon or IR missiles is not feasible if they are aware of your position, and you have no RWR and a very limited amount of countermeasures to use if you have to defend against a radar missile. The OP points out correctly that at top tier the meta very much favors places that have for forgiving flight performance such as the JAS-39 Gripen, which is true, however I believe such a change would create a shift entirely in the other direction, where the quantity of radar missiles would have an outsized effect on the effectiveness of an aircraft, making something like the Su-27 with 6 R-27ER have a considerable advantage over an aircraft like the F-16C which is limited to 2 AIM-7M
Thirdly, and finally, if as you propose this change is implemented it would make it virtually impossible to enjoy the kind of BFM combat that many players such as myself enjoy as it would be impractical or impossible to close within the distance required to fight somebody using the maneuverability of the aircraft. I think that in this instance particularly an exception must be made to sacrifice realism for the sake of gameplay. The way that the current ‘ground skimming’ meta works does not necessarily prevent you from playing for ‘BVR’ combat, as ground skimming to avoid missiles creates a disadvantage in terms of the amount of energy you are able to store by not climbing, as well as negatively impacting your fuel economy and the range of your own missiles. However, if your change was implemented I am of the opinion that it would negatively impact the variety of possible gameplay and force players to engage in a very repetitive format of climb> fire missiles at optimal range> defend that I believe many who are seeking a more ‘hands on’ style of combat would dislike, and those who are playing planes without the ability to engage in this type of gameplay would entirely disdain.
19 Likes
I understand your concerns, thank you for your input. I’d like to disagree over that it would exacerbate the snowball effect, if anything people will keep more distance to eachother and it would eliminate the IR slinging furball.
You bring up some issues not relevant to the thread though
- This thread is for Simulator Battles
- It’s for ARH missiles only (Fox 3), not 27ER’s or AIM7M
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Yes, the sim community is small. There are a few discords where we interact, including some sim threads.
They are also present in the 60-400 likes that this post and the supporters of this thread have received so far.
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They are not
They are.
Aswell as the 90% of responses to this thread which is overwhelmingly supportive, and 60-400 likes however you’d like to look at it
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They are not, 60 people is about 0.000001%