Ground SB has to be more immersive

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
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I think the main reason ground sim is dead is because it’s almost the same thing as ground rb. The only major differences are no 3rd person view, no allied markers and actual gunner’s sight… and that’s it.

You also get some bigger maps, but very often you still play at the tiny maps you get in rb. The matchmaking is also practically the same, but you can’t play the vehicles you want all the time, because of the rotation.

Why would i play sim over rb? I get the same corridor maps where you just run around and kill people. I still can meet 400mm pen HEAT-FS in my WW2 tank. The match still ends pretty quickly. I still get the same arcade game modes, air sim at least gets EC.

Ground sim would make sense if it was more similar to air sim. You would get to play for 3 hours, advance the frontline yourself, capture supply hubs, kill ai anti tank guns that are defending a point or something. And for the love of god, at least in sim realism should be more important than balance. I don’t want to meet time traveler’s tanks or a Russian object 123456 that looks like a UFO.

On a side note it would be a good quality of life change if there was an actual command to report your location, instead of the “on me”, that would stay on the map permanently until you report a new location.

Edit: I left out the controls and tank models aspect, because in my opinion it is less important than maps, game modes and matchmaking, but they also have to be made more realistic. They are probably even more important than what I have mentioned.

They are basically the same as in rb. The commander’s view is just a zoomed in 3rd person view, commander isn’t exposed when using that view, tanks are lacking their interiors etc.

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it is Basically the same thing, i agree.

The reason i dont play Simulator, is 2 reasons

  1. The commanders sight is terrible, and last time i played it Really bothered me… No point in playing sim when its Basically the same as ground RB and i dont have to deal with this annoying sight limitation, annoyance

  2. They further ruined sim by making all nations have the same tanks… USSR tanks are in basically every other nations tree… same with USA and Germany. (basically in that order of severity) So im not gunna play a mode they ruined by trying to be inclusive.

i think they should scrap sim and give us a Ground only mode. So those that want to play mixed can play mixed and those that want to play ground only can do that. All issues resolved.

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That’s the point… Realistic battles are supposed to be as realistic as simulator with some extra luxuries such as third person and aim down boresight.
Sim also grants extra rewards if you care about that.

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I personally don’t play sim because i get annoyed by cas in ground rb. I think cas is even stronger in ground sim, if you have an air sim player that has a joystick, a headtracker and knows what he’s doing.

I play sim, because i’m looking for a more realistic experience. Rb has become too arcade for me, everything devolves down to brawling. You either run around looking for people to 1 shot or you try to bait a shot from a guy behind the corner, so you can come out, shoot his barrel and kill him or just kill him.

The main problem are small maps and the game mode, they don’t allow you to be more tactical about your gameplay. To win you need to capture points and to capture points you need to go to a cqc environment, because that’s where all the points are. If you capture one, your best moves are to either go to their spawn, or go to the next cqc point.

There can only be a fight, if an enemy after being hit can retreat back to cover and repair. You can only do that if you’re far enough away, that the enemy won’t be able to just come to you and kill you during your repair time. Big maps with open spaces are essential to make tank combat realistic.

The maps have to be really big. Right now even on the biggest maps you can’t defeat an enemy from a distance and capture his position, because his position was probably his spawn. The best you get are 3 firing positions, your spawn, the middle of the map and the enemy spawn. You can’t advance without getting into cqc.

I have been playing PUBG recently and i really like how long the average engagement distance is. Your main weapon is usually a DMR or a sniper rifle, rather than an SMG or assault rifle.

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and how is sim different/not this? Just you getting bigger maps, more often?

(seems pretty hair splitty to me)

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Planes are a First Person POV? and SPAA’s in that game mode is more deadly which leads to them being an extremely good deterrent. often taking priority over other vehicles

I fail to see why Sim should be magically so different from what RB is. Often the difference is down to mindsets, Sim Players tend to be more competent to RB players. Word is: More.

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They are too similar, though this is mostly due to Ground RB’s weird selection of mechanics, which are basically all of the wrong things.

Unlike Air RB, which broadly speaking combines realistic vehicle performance (etc) with game-style modes (markers, etc), Ground RB essentially inverts this, and we get the really terrible combo of no markers (fine alone, though inconsistent with Air RB’s markers and Naval RB’s no-markers-but-has-targeting) with the extremely video game-y elements of the peek-over-all-cover third-person view, optics stuck inside gun barrels as if this is CoD (the not-at-all-realistic Battlefield series has had proper optic offset for small arms and vehicles for a decade), barrels clipping through everything, and so on. To say nothing of Ground RB’s aircraft third-person spotting issues, or the snowball-inducing spawn point system.

That is to say, Ground RB essentially combines things backwards. Which actually makes Ground SB nearly a direct upgrade as a mode… except it’s stuck behind lobbies instead of matchmaking, and has forced lineups of vehicles to choose from.

We tested Ground SB with regular lineups a while back and it was amazing, but sadly nothing ever came of it. If it came back, it’d easily be my go-to Ground mode, replacing AB.

Putting the issues Ground RB needs to sort out aside, Ground SB does similarly not quite have enough “sim” elements compared to Air SB. While does have optics placement and commander-hatch-third-person which are great, it’s still missing a proper Realistic Controls option to parallel Air’s controls. Meaning the ability to control the turret directly, instead of being forced to use Pointer Aim. Not even just for SB, this would be a very welcome option for us controller players.

Barrels actually having collision with stuff (should be universal, but it’s especially goofy to be absent in SB) and proper gunsight reticles per tank are also definitely needed.

In short, both modes need to move in opposite directions in different ways, yes.

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yeah, Id play a hell of a lot of GSB if it had some additional elements. Could almost do with being an EC type gamemode. That would be rather fun

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That’s funny because all gaijin did in the past, was making Sim mode closer to Realistic mode (putting BR system for planes, using SP mechanics) to make RB player come to this mode (really bad idea IMO).
But now that this mode has been rotten by childish desires, you’re whinning about it and some of you even want it to be removed.
Let me get it straight, stay in AB/RB, give advices about those only, ignore mode you don’t play.
If you go to SB, deal with it, adapt to it, don’t whine because you are the reason why this mode became what it is today.

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I don’t get why this thread is focussing so much onnmap and mission design. Like if that is why the modes are similar.

The truth is they have the exact same gameplay. Just compare it to air where the gameplay differences are huge.

What Tanks in Sim need is interiors and the removal of the instructor. That’s far more important tonmake it a sim than maps and mission design.

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I disagree with that statement. Since SB and RB have been pretty much the same for tanks since the beginning.

Tank SB might be the biggest dissappointment in all of WT.

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Well before BR in Sim GF, there was just a list of playable aircrafts, BR was an almost pure AB/RB feature. Before spawnpoint systems you had 2 spawns for a single ground vehicule (1 spawn if heavy tank) and 1 single spawn for air vehicule. Spawnpoint in GF were specifically used in AB/RB.
Most maps were much larger in Sim GF, but now most of them (except one) have been clipped by a third or half, becoming copy & paste RB maps.
That’s pretty significant.

And again tank interior and Co, would be nice but have you an idea of the cost of a single model ?

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Old SB was like todays RB ;).

Not to mention that at first there were no airplanes in SB.

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And before that there were battleratings only. You act like SB GF started out in the event section. It didn’t.

It also started without respawns… Like at all

So you are very selective on how back you are willing to go.

Who cares? I said that the gameplay is still the same as in RB and always was. Saying that it costs a lot to make proper sim gameplay, doesn’t change this fact.

If it is too expensive just delete ground forces from sim. Gaijin were wise to not do naval sim, one disgrace to sim is enough.

Look if you want an arcade shooter with bigger maps, SB really shouldn’t be the place it should be a tank combat sim.

What you want is a change to RB not a ground combat sim. You should be in RB not SB. Gaijin open the flood gates for shooter players in sim was a massive mistake that has not been corrected.

People being fine with this sort of gameplay in sim and care more about missions and maps are what prevents sim from becoming good.

We need RB tank only with large maps, so all those RB refugees can leave and we can actually have an audience for a tank sim instead of a shooter.

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If you speak about 2013, yes except BR system, some stuff have been added then to enhance immersion like actual gunsight location, but what i said before was made for the same purpose, leveling by the bottom to appeal players which are playing AB/RB.

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You shouldn’t assume my opinions about SIM combined battle, just because i said you were going too far knowing how much IL2 tank crew module costs.
I’m not against “hardcore” sim mode, focusing on gameplay as you said, you don’t need a tank interior, just driver view, gunner and commander sight which we already have, borrowing some vehicule logic from Rising Storm 2, and we might have it.
Problem is, we’re in a what if area, and your posts make you look like an angry mob from twitter.

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I do not assume. I use deduction. I will show you how i do it

See you call this hardcore. While it is the bare minimum for a tank combat simulator. It’s not hardcore it is the softcore version. What we have isn’t sim at all.

We are in the simulator section so where else to post that you want sb to be a tank sim?

Also the thread itself wants SB to move away from RB, but then says nothing about gameplay, even though gameplay is the thing defining the modes not mission design.

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“Hardcore” is a way to tell it is more sim oriented than todays sim mode.

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When were there no planes in Ground SB? I remember flying in that mode in 2014 already.

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There was a time with no air in SB, played it from the beginning.