Team killing policy - follow up thread

I would like to continue with the thread of the old forum:

as i saw that this topic with 30 pages, 742 posts and 89.056 views frequently pops up in the new forum. In addition the thread includes a lot of valuable information regarding:

  1. Tracking team kills by gaijin
  2. What to do when being team killed
  3. What is the auto-ban system of gaijin

Furthermore: A lot of Game Masters explained what they can do and what they can’t do against team killers.

As i saw a hell of players raised questions and open new threads in the new forum about this issue, it might be worth to to pinn this thread in order to avoid multiple new threads. @Pacifica: It would be great to pinn this thread. Thx!

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Of course continuing with this discussion needs some input.

As i have seen that @Schindibee is very active in the new forum - i would like to ask if there are any changes in gaijin’s policy besides the “apology” function.

And specifically regarding changes of thresholds of the number of team kills leading to an temporary auto-ban.

I just came out of a match in which a prop bomber managed to team kill 4 fighters in Air RB on the runway right after spawn. So a different story than reckless Pe-8 pilots in Ground RB wiping out half of their own team whilst hoping to nuke enemies with the FAB 5.000.

Thx in advance!

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I will ask about it, might be a good idea

and for that guy, he will more than likely have a timer before he can go into another match

Sometimes they can even be automatically kicked during the match, but it may depend on the circumstance of the incidents

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Our game has the worst punishment system of all games. In a potato patch (wot), for a demo with an ally pushing you → ban for 7 days, like noting to do

In our game, especially in SB, you can be subjected to persecution from some unstable arcaders. And the reasons for this are the most inadequate.

A TK related thread:

@Stona_WT - it would be great if this thread got pinned…

Imho your claims:

  1. You watch team kills all the time
  2. There is pretty much no punishment for teamkilling
  3. We had 0 teamkills / being upset about base stealing
  4. U want to have quick base respawn timer or harsher punishment
  5. Most people might not report TKs

…are mixing some things up.

I agree to point 1 & 2, #3 is imho flat wrong, #4 is mixing up individual preferences (base bombing) with legitimate requests for harsher punishment, and your point #5 assumes that reporting team killers would have an impact, spoiler: It has zero impact.

Leaving this base respawn timer aside it boils down that some players think they can team kill others, the forum shows every few days threads dealing with this. In every BR range and especially during take off.

Continuing the discussion from Teamkilled by friendly because I was flying towards a base:

The linked thread of the old r thunder forum shows that TK reports are useless. Game Masters have confirmed this.

I am not getting this point as you seem to be misunderstanding me I think?

3 I am saying we have teamkills over base stealing/claiming. Back a couple patches when bases respawned extremely quickly, it was extremely rare and done by people that didnt know the bases respawned quickly at top tier (I was even having a lot of fun with my buccaneer in full uptiers with supersonic planes carrying bombs on the team because I knew I could bomb bases, I just had to angle to go out a little and pull in for around half a minute or so).

4 isnt about personal preference, when we had 15-20 second respawning bases, I wasnt being teamkilled for a base, nor others, before and after if I have bombs and am going to a base somebody else wants, I have been teamkilled for it. I also have seen others being teamkilled in order for the other plane to take the base.

It isnt personal, its about the motives of the teamkiller. Their motive is that they want the RP from bombing the base. That means that its a core mechanic issue that rewards teamkilling players that should be reverted. Nobody likes the slow spawning base system.

You wont generally be able to stop idiots being idiots, but you can point out core game mechanics that make people teamkill for reward and say it should change.

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I fly daily too, but there were always disputes about base claims - even if can’t prove them with replays (thx to update) - team kills about base claims are happening rather often in prop BRs, nothing particular new.

Imho your initial claim “Either better base respawn timer or harsher punishment” is a perfect example of personal preference, as you attach your view on team kills (i fully agree) to your game play; team kills happen every day - unrelated to base bombing.

Imho it is solely a matter of character - as team killing on purpose is not justified in any case - the griefing you describe might have increased, but the lack of severe punishment is the main issue here.

I exclude self-defense from this rule, so if somebody tries to TK me and he messes up - i shoot him down.

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I find the reporting system anyway a bit confusing. For example you can’t TK a tank but you can ruin his match. Small light vehicles can be bullied to a point where you can just sit and watch how you get abused …

This player started right from the start to jump on my ASU and didn’t let go … I bailed out after 5min because the match was over for me anyway. And it wasn’t the 1st time something like this happened.
I don’t wanna know why players do this because there is anyway something broken in their life to do this to other players for fun. But I got big doubts that players get the right penalty for something like this …

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…with another tank (except pushing him into a river), but you can team kill a tank with a bomb.

In Air RB we have a hell of teamkills (as friendly fire is assessed as realistic), but complaining/reporting makes no sense as the Game Masters confirmed that they do not interfere with the auto-ban system.

The incident in your screenshot is griefing, and should be reported as such via the server replay.

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but complaining/reporting makes no sense as the Game Masters confirmed that they do not interfere with the auto-ban system.

So it is a placebo? …

Come to your own conclusion:

https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/384340-current-team-killing-policy/&do=findComment&comment=9547912

On 11/02/2018 at 00:05, Miss_Behaven said:

Request by a player

I have reported a “team” player, who ON PURPOSE - AND without any previous contact started crashing into my tank… and continuing doing so… until the game ended. I reported the player, and send an email to FlyingLeathrneck with screenshots and a link to the battle. This was not " by accident" … but 100% on purpose. The player was not punished and he continued playing other battles. My point is - IF team-killing is not being punished the first time - but first after some more dirty team-killings, then we have to stop these team-killers ourselves… self-justice or not.

This is the answer I got when reporting the team-killer:

" Keep reporting teamkillers using the in-game report system? Also, the game has an autoban system in place for teamkillers. If they keep doing it, they will get banned from the game a certain amount of time for teamkilling. Players who have a lengthy history of TK bans are looked at more closely so continue filing in-game complaints against them for it. Other than that, there isn’t anything else we can do."

Please read the “if they KEEP doing it” - they will get banned…

I’m playing the game for fun …and not for having teammates attacking me from behind … This is a sick behaviour. If team-killing is not stopped when we report a player and the player just continue playing, I can meet him again and again on the battlefield, until someone is stopping his behaviour. If you are not stopping the team-killing - then we have to take revenge ourselves… and this … only because nothing happens. I’m not playing WT to be a victim for someone’s frustrations and / or aggressions.

You ask us to make team-killing reports - and IF the player continue his team-killing, then he will be punished. This means (as I read your policy), that the one time team-killing on me, will not have any consequences… or what ?.. The fact is, that the player who attacked me “out of the blue” continued to play additional battles (4 days after my report)… and therefore NOTHING HAPPENED.

Expand

Answer by Game Master:
Like I told you, there is a TK autoban system in the game. We Game Masters cannot ban players for teamkilling. We have to allow that TK autoban system to work. Also, like I said, players who continuously TK and have MANY TK autobans face having their accounts banned permanently. I know of a few of them that were recently banned. The Game Masters do not ban them, Gaijin staff members do. We do not make it known to others about who is moderated and for what reason and what the punishment was. It is unethical to do so.

I wish we as Game Masters could do more about team killers but we cannot. We have to allow the system to do it’s work. And it DOES work. Maybe not as fast as you players want it to work but it does work.

As for players who continuously griefing others (pushing them into rivers, off bridges, into the open, etc) need to be reported via the Server Replay Report System as well as in-game reports. Instructions on how to use this system is here.

That’s why i asked @Schindibee if something has changed, maybe he is just busy. But imho they are still useless.

But another player described TK reports recently as “dead letterboxes”…

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TK in AirSB happens quite frequently. IFF sometimes does not work properly.

My F-16C positively identified M2000 as foe, however they guy was part of my team.
Same on a friedly Mig21, identifies foe. I shoot em down and get a TK.
F-16 chinese or japanese are being identified as friendlies. Even if not part of the team.

An function of AWACS to declare a target locked on would certainly help in some situations.
Proper working IFF would do the trick too. Maybe not a dynamic IFF, but manual at the begin of the match the whole team has to type in an IFF code manually for a positive IFF.

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Someone just redirected me to this thread on a post I made.

Honestly I feel that anyone that TK within 60 seconds on spawn in ARB should get a immediate 24 hour ban.

Reports are OK, auto kick for 3 kills is OK, but by then the damage is already done and the fun is ruined for those guys already with no REAL repercussion - sad thing is - people TK for the memes and keep on doing it.

There needs to be a real SCARE to people that TK on spawn.

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Imho you are correct with harsher punishment for run way kills - but imho it would be much easier to disable team kills (friendly fire) for the first 60-90 seconds.

This would help to prevent incidents like described by me (H8K bomber with 4 teamkills thx to his airfield spawn) and the usual “sorry, misclick” excuses.

Imho we still have in Air RB the “2 team kills = get kicked” rule and not 3; sometimes guys get kicked after one and scoring crits on a second plane.

What only a few guys address is the urgent need for a refund of lost boosters if you got teamkilled…

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Will Disabling weapons / spawn immunity be enough of a scare to culprits that enjoy a TK?

Imho you need to distinguish between:

  1. Gaijin’s approach vs team killing
  2. Players committing Team kills

IIrc correctly gaijin claims that friedly fire is and will be also in the future an essential part of Air RB. And they claim that there is no harm for the teamkilled player as there are no repair cost since a while ago.

What i do not understand is why they disabled team killing in Ground RB - at least for friendly fire tank vs tank.

The other part comes either from wrong game mechanics (missile lock on a target in front, and the missile goes rogue right or left), reckless game play (= Pe-8 flattening whole areas) and team kills on purpose like in your example.

I claim that you can’t protect yourself vs reckless players and vs players committing team kills on purpose, so this “auto-ban-system” leading to temporary bans needs way lower thresholds - so 3 teamkills a day is a week off and a kind of 3 strike rule leading to a perma ban.

But those guys doing it on purpose (just to ruin your game) needs to face severe punishments much earlier than today - especially for these self-justice guys killing others for “base stealing”, “kill steals” and “i don’t like your nation / skin / symbol” - these guys need a 3 strike rule and a perma ban…

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Which nets you paying for the TKer’s repair costs.

I think they turned off the whole “forgive a TK” thing, because I got an accidental one* today, and there was no chat popup at all.

  • They really shouldn’t assess a TK if someone drives into your artillery…
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Once the battle is in motion than ye, risk of the trade. But trolling on the runway is just not it.

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I have zero problem with those tk fees. I report (ofc via server replay) the team kill attempt and declare that i shot them down, never heard anything from those reports.