Team killing policy - follow up thread

Current team killing policy is absurd.
I’ve met a fellow decent player named Juno(insert smiley face here), after I have scored 2 kills, he simply shot me down (and I did NOT killsteal) so he could get more kills himself since I was in a bit better position for the job.
He received laughable penalty and proceeded to kill 2 more enemies.

It is clear that such behaviour paid off for him - once he was sure we’re in the “snowball” part of the match and enemy team was sure to lose, he elliminated the threat to his score.

And there’s 0 incentive to NOT do so. He won’t be banned. He won’t be punished. And he surely benefits from such actions, not only from SL he earned, by also improving his stats and reducing mine.

This is absurd. I remember back in the day, someone would have reviewed the replay and apply penalties so such things were not happening again.
But nowadays?

3 Likes

Even “killstealing” (which a non-issue in itself anyway) does of course NOT mean one is allowed to TK in return.

No, TKs were always mostly handled automatically, not per review.

Killstealing is a huge issue. It means to get a kill I have to dive after every clobbered to pieces plane to make sure he dies before my killstealer teammates get to him. This means loss of ammunition and energy/position. So I am forced to choose between being useful and getting to the carcass of my prey before the vultures arrive.

Furthermore, killstealers usually ignore enemies at similar/a bit lower energy state, that are actual danger to their teammates, in their pursuit of an easy kill.

So killstealing is a perfectly valid reason to shoot the killstealer down, since Gaijin hasn’t done anything to fix the problem since the very beginning. Killstealers are actively hurting their team’s effort.

Right now the game is constructed, so:

  • shooting other good player on your team is rewarded
  • being useless and stealing kills is rewarded.
    It’s a ridiculous situation. Of course it can all be fixed - but killstealers are an important target demographic for gaijin, and apparently so are teamkillers.
1 Like

Whats up with the complain servers? Just got pushed around by a lvl 9 player who thought it would be funny do play with my ASU …

image

all I get is this …
image

No.

There is NO excuse for TK’s and if you commit TK’s you will get punished sooner or later.

1 Like

I met him too recently - flying for the enemy team. I checked his stats before i engaged him in this match - just by judging the way he was trying to drain my energy it was obvious that he knew what he was doing, seeing his k/d of 30:1 in the USSR 190 D-9 it was clear what will happen.

He actually managed to kill 5 guys (and all 4 guys chasing him in a 1 vs 4, imho 1 vs 7-8 in total) whilst i was fulfilling my daily task (15 ground units in a strike aircraft) as based on his location and the kill feed he would need ammo and a repair, so all i had to do was to cut him off from his main airfield. As he saw he was outplayed he decided to crash on purpose - just another form of griefing like team killing you…

I did not report him as i see no purpose of reporting such guys - the GMs admit that they do not interfere with the tk auto-ban system - griefing is more or less a much “lighter” violation.

Regarding lack of severe punishments for team killers / griefing players check this thread:

https://forum.warthunder.com/t/punishments-system/57649

2 Likes

I killed over the years a lot of guys who tried to teamkill me and messed up. I always reported them later for a team kill attempt and stated that i shot them down using my universal right to defend myself. I never received any punishment outside the team kill fee…

Thast’s a typical Gaijin logic in work here - punish the guy who is doing his best to help his team and just HAVE A FUN EXPERIENCE, while protect toxic leeches, who actually work against their own team and generally influence the game in a negative fashion, since chasing a burning carcass or a guy with most controls gone going down in a flatspin is NOT a productive way to play and not fun either.

Every decent player I’ve ever met simply avoids heavily damaged burning planes. So what’s the point of protecting killstealers?

Same with the Juno guy - he’s being absolutely toxic. But he’s protected.

And then pople wonder, why is this community so horrible?
And it’s simple. Being horrible pays off.

Well, that is the main reason why we do not have a maneuver kill implemented. Because that would make griefing v. difficult to pull off. I think it took Gaijin about 11 or 12 years to introduce the legendary “if you J-out, kill goes to the guy who’s the nearest to you”.
Result?
I barely every get such kills because people have stopped doing this!
And those who didn’t have switched to crashing on purpose.

1 Like

What is up with those new players? Lvl 9 … the battle had just started …
It happens more and more …



No, he isn’t protected in any way. If he commits TK’s, he is being punished as soon as the TK algorithm is triggered, just like everybody else.

The TK algorithm does absolutely NOTHING if someone isn’t absolutely broke, and even then - if you kill the right guy at the right time you’ll get these SL back in no time.

Well, you’re in no position to be sure, as you don’t have access to that data.

And, again, as the game rules clearly state, team damage and team killing is forbidden and a punishable offense. There’s no arguing around that.

It’s forbidden, but the punishment is not there.
And game rules are made to basically only work in extreme cases. Deliberat malicious behaviour like ramming teammates, killstealing, intentionaly crashing, AFK spaceclimbing, airfield camping? No punishment at all, only benefits.

This game is a heaven for trolls.
And the real malicious teamkillers who are simply doing this when it benefits them laugh at “no teamkilling” policy.
IMO every player who shoots killstelers should receive 100 golden eagles for their effort (excluding me, I don’t need those). But we can’t have nice things.

Do you consider people stealing kills from others in Air RB worthy of protection?
Why?
What’s the point.
Their actions drain away fun from the game, but surely increase the levels of frustration

Report him for griefing (=unsportsmanship behavior).

If this happens frequently you might change your play style.

It is imho the same like pre-emptive measure to avoid getting team killed in Air RB:

  1. If you take off from the airfield: Extend to the side and always check your six - or take off as last plane or spawn in a last person whilst watching already spawned people via spectator mode.
  2. If you use an air spawn prop - spawn in as last in your cluster (so as #4 out of 4 bombers or other classes with different air spawns) and immediately extend from your cluster whilst checking your six.

So if you get bullied in your shopping cart you might think about spawning late after your mates have extended from the spawn location.

1 Like

I send ya the replay. It came out of nowhere. I can’t change more. I just write “stop it” and then I wait. And the reporting doesn’t work … servers are not there. Got a sticky note now on my desk to try it later … can’t believe that I have to do something like that.

It is my beloved hot box … be kind to her :-* Besides this … I really love to try early spots. On Test-Site 2271 it works great.

1 Like

No offense here, but the TK algorithm is very poor… I TK kill stealers nearly 100% of the time when it’s deliberate on an absolutely dead enemy (flat spinning, burning, you get it - 100% should be a kill for me … NOT someone who has been crit but is still “in the game”). I don’t care, I will throw away my position and possibly the game to wipe those people off the face of the planet.

I have been doing this since 2014 and I have no intention to stop doing that.

Altogether I have received a pop-up ONCE saying I have been naughty and 10 people complained.

And that’s it.

If your game would be worth something then

  • There would be a system in place already for years which awards the kill appropriately. I understand something along those lines is in development now, but man, this should have been there so so long ago… outside of pure toxicity on take-off, this is the PRIMARY reason for people TK one another. I do it, others do it, there’s nothing wrong with it within the current set of game mechanics - someone else doesn’t deserve your kill, your RP/SL, your effort. Kill stealers are the toxic waste of the community and have to be eradicated

  • There would be a system in place that auto kicks and 1 day ban when people TK off the runway or within the first 30 seconds of the game… no ifs and buts about it, no need to reach some weekly quota, none of that. People who are just there to cause grief can go play some other game instead and cool down for a day

  • The SL penalty is hilarious, you think people care? People have in the 10s or 100s of million SL. Make it a % of the total SL, people will care

  • Increasing a period of banning an account doesn’t work (1 day, 3 day, 14 day, etc), what you think there’s only WT in the world? You ban someone for 10 days because a steak of TK, he will just go play another game for 10 days. Instead of punishing the offense you should be fixing the cause the offense happened in the first place by analyzing the game mechanics that lead to it and changing them. Here, I’m not talking about people TK constantly off the runway, but systemic issues in WT that lead to people getting frustrated by your game and TK another player for it

But yea, sure, Gaijin trusts some algorithm is solving the issues around TK and washes their hands without actually looking into it. Surely its some effort to address these issues, but man, the game mechanics around getting kills and awards could be done so much better and not such utter frustration as it has been for over a decade… there were/are many posts on the old forum since day-1 of WT stating these issues, and its nearly 2024 now and we are still at the same point

3 Likes

Although i agree with most of the content of your recent posts here, i think you might consider going one step back. It is not about protection, it is imho an issue of your view on the game itself and of your personal goals whilst playing the game.

  • So if you play the game as a plain shooter i fully agree with your pov. Including all of the negative effects on game play, individual score, ranking, statistics and income.

  • But - you might agree that you are surrounded by 90-95% noobs every match with have severe issues to understand basic game mechanics, damage models, importance of positioning vs kills and the long term effects of kill steals mid to late game.

  • In addition i fully agree that gaijin is unable or unwilling to implement reasonable rules for actual kills which supports kill stealing and unable to punish teamkillers hard and fast enough.

I actually play the match for fun too, but i don’t care about my kill numbers as i do not see any correlation between fun and high kill numbers.

  • In fact i prefer non op planes/pure fighters to have a challenge - and if i end up a game with 1-3 assists of stolen aircraft kills idc anymore.

  • If they would add a new column called “assists” in their statistical overview you might see the hundred or thousands of kill steals over the years - and i talk about flat spinning aircraft tumbling down several kilometers or bombers/fighters going down in flames unable to recover or made it back to their af.

  • I have way more fun if i am able to drag 3 XP-50s away from the center and giving my team a chance to climb than looking for high kill numbers in a fighter, so as long as we have different goals whilst playing the game we might have different views on the same aspect.

If you see the game as a whole the purpose of this thread is to discuss about team kills - imho easy to solve with disabling friendly fire at least for props (either by time like to protect take off or by proximitiy of enemies). So i understand your frustration in certain aspects of the game, but i am not defending or protecting kill stealers, i simply don’t care anymore.

Please no, lets not advocate to dumb down the game

1 Like