UAE Pantsir S1E based on MAN SX 8x8 truck

Should Gaijin add the UAE Pantsir S1E to allow for more balanced distribution of hugh performance SHORAD systems at top tier?
  • Yes!!!
  • No…
0 voters
How should it be added into the game?
  • German Tech Tree due to the MAN SX45 truck its based on being produced by Germany
  • A standalone UAE Teach Tree
  • I said no
0 voters

This suggestion has a near identical sister submitted in the US ground forces section as directed by forum suggestion moderators in the past. Link at the bottom of the post!!!

As many players know, the Pantsir S1 SHORAD system was added into the game in update “Sky Guardians”, providing a massive game imbalance in favor of Russia at top tier. This is a major future problem for game balance as well as western nations did not put much effort into development of all in-one SHORAD systems beyond those already seen in-game, preferring to opt for air superiority via qualitative and quantitative superiority as well as extensive SEAD/DEAD doctrines, both of which are not feasible options in a balanced game, and SEAD/DEAD specifically not being implemented at all in game. As such, I’ve decided to take it upon myself to make a few proposals for SHORAD systems other nations could have to return a semblance of balance to the top tier SHORAD and CAS situation, and this suggestion post is one such case.

I’ve attached the Pantsir S1 suggestion post previously passed to the devs and approved below, but for the sake of a complete suggestion, I will be once again touching on some of the primary features of the system.

History of the Pantsir S1E:

The UAE Pantsir S1E originates from a modification to an initial order of 50 Pantsir S1 systems by the UAE, which was a launch customer of the Pantsir-S1. The UAE originally placed in May 2000 a n acquisition order for 50 Pantsir S1’s, of which 25 were to be on wheeled chassis and 25 on tracked chassis. The specifications were later revised for all 50 of them to be on the MAN SX45 8x8 truck which delayed the order to some degree and increased the cost of the purchase. The first 2 were provided to t he UAE in 2007 with the delivery of all 50 completed by 2013. The MAN SX45 8x8 was chosen as the new transporter chassis by the UAE as it was the only “Western” vehicle large enough to accommodate the system while also having a reliable support and logistics network readily available, which was important as all UAE support vehicles for the Pantsir were to also be based on the same MAN vehicles. Further modernizations of the system were reportedly requested by the UAE in 2019 as well according to the CEO of Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheyev.

The captured Pantsir S1E is largely similar to the Russian one added to the game;

Weaponry:

2x twin 30mm 2A38M autocannons:
- 960-980m/s muzzle velocity
- Ammunition fired: HEF-I, HEF-T, AP-T
- 2500rpm per gun pair (1250rpm per barrel x 4 barrels = 5000 rpm combined fire rate)
- Maximum engagement range: 4km
- 700 rounds per gun (1400 rounds total)
- Stabilized (Fire on the move)
image

12x 57E6-E SAM (export designation of 95Ya6 on Russian Pantsir S1):

  • 18km operational range, 20km max range
  • 15km service ceiling
  • Motor boost as currently modelled in-game: 2.4 sec 25700N (real life values unclear, with various sources stating different boost periods varying between 1.5-2.5 seconds and some stating boost sustain with no clear specifications for either so I’ve gone with the one currently used by gaijin themselves)
  • Maximum speed at end of motor burn: 1300m/s
  • Average speed at 18km: 700-780m/s
  • Warhead specifications: 20kg weight of which 5kg are explosives. TNT equivalent (as modelled by gaijin in-game): 8.47kg
  • Proximity fuse range: 9m (as defined by Gaijin in-game)
  • Missile weight: 72.5 kg
  • Missile weight at end of boost stage: 28kg
  • Guidance type and duration: SACLOS/30 sec
  • Maximum lateral acceleration (as defined by gaijin): 32g
  • Stabilized (Fire on the move)
    image

Radar:

  • 2RL80 Acquisition radar (S-band, 0°-60° search elevation, full 360° rotation in 2-4 seconds, ~30km acquisition range for 1m2 RCS target)
  • 1RS2-1E Radar (Ku-band, ~21km max acquisition range for 1m2 RCS target, simultaneous track and engagement of up to 4 targets)
    image

Optics:

  • Same as seen on Pantsir S1 (French Sagem MATIS LR midwave thermal imager with WFOV of 4.17° x 6.25°, and NFOV of 0.87° x 1.3°, with a o.05 mrad angular track error)
  • Elevation -5° - 82°
  • Angular tracking rate of 100°/s
  • Angular acceleration of 170°/s
    image
    image
    image
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Mobility:

  • The main difference between the Russian Pantsir S1 and the UAE Pantsir S1E is the use of a German built MAN SX45 8x8 transporter instead of the KamAZ 6560 8x8 truck.
  • The vehicles are both of a similar weight with the KamAZ 6560 8x8 being stated at roughly 14.85 tons empty and a max load of 20 tons while the MAN SX45 8x8 has an empty weight ranging between 13-21 tons with a max load of 16 tons.
  • The MAN SX45 8x8 has a MAN D2066 LFG diesel engine producing 440hp vs the KamAZ 6560 8x8’s KamAZ-740.35-400 diesel engine producing 400hp.
  • The KamAZ has a top speed of 90kph vs the MAN’s 88kph, making the KamAZ marginally faster but likely with a slightly worse HP/T
  • Weight specification of the Pantsir S1/E can’t be found to determine an accurate hp/t for both vehicles

Pictures:

Kamaz 6560 8x8:

Pantsir S1:
image

MAN SX45 8x8:
image

Pantsir S1E:
image


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image
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Sources:

Spoiler

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/
Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies - №1'2001 (January-February) <br>Preliminary Estimates of Russian Performance in Military-Technical Cooperation with Foreign States in 2000
USAF requests new bids on CSAR-X - Jane's Defence News
Russian-made Pantsyr anti-aircraft systems provide security for Dubai Airshow - Military & Defense - TASS
KBP 2K22/2K22M/M1 Tunguska SA-19 Grison / 96K6 Pantsir S1 / SA-22 Greyhound SPAAGM / Cамоходный Зенитный Ракетно-Пушечный Комплекс КБП 2К22М/М1 Тунгуска-М/М1 / 96К6 Панцирь-С1
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/pantsyr.htm
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/kamaz_6560.htm
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/man_sx45.htm
Pantsir S-1 | Missile Threat
Engagement and Fire Control Radars (S-Band, X-band)
Miroslav Gyűrösi, Hybrydowy zestaw przeciwlotniczy Pancyr-S1 Cz.1, NTW - Technika Wojskowa, 6/2010.
Miroslav Gyűrösi, Hybrydowy zestaw przeciwlotniczy Pancyr-S1 Cz.2, NTW - Technika Wojskowa, 8/2010.
Said Aminov, Vestnik PVO, URL: http://pvo.guns.ru/; Радиолокационная станция сопровождения цели и ракет 1PC2-Е
https://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/
Pantsir-S1 | Military Wiki | Fandom
Pantsir-S1
Pantsir S-1 | Missile Threat
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_missile_system_vehicle_uk/pantsir_pantsyr_s1_sa-22_greyhound_air_defense_missile_gun_system_technical_data_sheet_specification.html
https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/russia-to-supply-pantsir-s1-air-defence-systems-to-myanmar/
The Russian Pantsir-S1 SAM / SPAAG System
https://roe.ru/eng/catalog/air-defence-systems/air-defense-systems-and-mounts/“Pantsir-S1”/
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/pantsyr.htm

Old forum post link:

Sister post link:

Old forum sister post link:

2 Likes

Defintely agree. There should be SHORADs of comparable effectiveness in each tech tree. There is a massive gap in power between the Russian Pantsir S1 + Chinese TorM1 and other countries end of the line SPAA. Using exports and captured vehicles could and should be used to solve this issue.

5 Likes

By that logic the entire swedish top tier should go to Germany as well because a german company made its base vehicle.

3 Likes

+1, for a UAE tree

Not exclusively, but i can agree to that move

I don’t know man, @Emperororca 's argument makes sense… Have you guys ever heard of SLAMRAAM? It was a program to develop a humvee that could fire amraams and aim9x from the surface, it was never introduced, but we already got similar vehicles for balancing reasons… I’ll give +1 anyway

There is no UAE TT in-game, and as such the current best fit is Germany. Not really a complex point to figure out yet you seem to have struggled with it…

5 Likes

+1, considering how abysmal the FlaRakRad performs despite being seen as an “equivalent” by the game this should be added. And Germany already has equipment from other nations not in-game that it helped designed such as the TAM series, and the UAE isn’t in game at all as of December 2023

4 Likes

I doubt its ever going to happen but +1 for Germany

4 Likes

I know France did not do good things in Algeria, but, here is a pantsir-SM:
image

That image is not a Pantsir-SM, also France has their own options, so does Germany and many others.

germany and france has options but not really for 11.7

please elaborate which standalone radar spaa options germany and france have ?
the german boxer iris-t carrier is planned to first appear in 2028 not mentioning game implementation

They mentioned adding IRIS-T in the past, so I guess we’ll just have to wait for that one. It’s the the realistic option.

This is the Pantsir SM

Like i said , thats 4-6 years away, thats by far not a sustainable solution

There always the potential for the Skyguard or Osa

Your recommendation to the flarakrad replacement /upgrade. Is an even older Osa or an otomatic like gun, which requires gajin to fix Ahead as well. Neither is a top tier spaa /Sam facepalm

1 Like

Those are the only options, unless you get a sub tree with something in it

Congratulation, u realised the reason for the uae pantsir s1e suggestion for germany

1 Like