US Captured Libyan Pantsir S1E

Should Gaijin add the Lybian Pantsir S1E captured and tested by the US to allow for more balanced distribution of high performance SHORAD systems at top tier?
  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

This is a sister suggestion to my suggestion for the UAE Pantsir S1E seen in other nation(link at bottom of post), I was told EXPRESSLY by multiple suggestion moderators, as well as a Senior Suggestion moderator to submit this suggestion post for the Libyan Pantsir S1E captured and tested by the US in the US ground forces suggestion section in this exact manner.

As many players know, the Pantsir S1 SHORAD system was added into the game in update “Sky Guardians”, providing a massive game imbalance in favor of Russia at top tier. This is a major future problem for game balance as well as western nations did not put much effort into development of all in-one SHORAD systems beyond those already seen in-game, preferring to opt for air superiority via qualitative and quantitative superiority as well as extensive SEAD/DEAD doctrines, both of which are not feasible options in a balanced game, and SEAD/DEAD specifically not being implemented at all in game. As such, I’ve decided to take it upon myself to make a few proposals for SHORAD systems other nations could have to return a semblance of balance to the top tier SHORAD and CAS situation, and this suggestion post is one such case.

I’ve attached the Pantsir S1 suggestion post previously passed to the devs and approved below, but for the sake of a complete suggestion, I will be once again touching on some of the primary features of the system.

History of captured Pantsir S1E:

Although the US did not formally purchase Pantsir S1E’s from Russia or the UAE, 2 such systems were captured in Libya in 2020 following their transfer to the Libyan National Army in 2019 and deployment to the region. At least one system was captured at the Al-Watiyah Airbase by the Turkish backed GNA forces based in Tripoli when the airbase was taken from the Russian/UAE backed LNA. The Pantsir S1E was targeted by a GNA drone shortly after arriving at the airfield in question and was incapacitated by near miss which is suspected to have struck a nearby technical while both vehicle were in an aircraft shelter. The Pantsir S1E was then transferred over to US forces and flown out of Libya to Ramstein airforce base in Germany be further tested and analyzed.

History of the Pantsir S1E:

The UAE Pantsir S1E originates from a modification to an initial order of 50 Pantsir S1 systems by the UAE, which was a launch customer of the Pantsir-S1. The UAE originally placed in May 2000 a n acquisition order for 50 Pantsir S1’s, of which 25 were to be on wheeled chassis and 25 on tracked chassis. The specifications were later revised for all 50 of them to be on the MAN SX45 8x8 truck which delayed the order to some degree and increased the cost of the purchase. The first 2 were provided to t he UAE in 2007 with the delivery of all 50 completed by 2013. The MAN SX45 8x8 was chosen as the new transporter chassis by the UAE as it was the only “Western” vehicle large enough to accommodate the system while also having a reliable support and logistics network readily available, which was important as all UAE support vehicles for the Pantsir were to also be based on the same MAN vehicles. Further modernizations of the system were reportedly requested by the UAE in 2019 as well according to the CEO of Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheyev.

The captured Pantsir S1E is largely similar to the Russian one added to the game;

Weaponry:

2x twin 30mm 2A38M autocannons:
- 960-980m/s muzzle velocity
- Ammunition fired: HEF-I, HEF-T, AP-T
- 2500rpm per gun pair (1250rpm per barrel x 4 barrels = 5000 rpm combined fire rate)
- Maximum engagement range: 4km
- 700 rounds per gun (1400 rounds total)
- Stabilized (Fire on the move)
image

12x 57E6-E SAM (export designation of 95Ya6 on Russian Pantsir S1):

  • 18km operational range, 20km max range
  • 15km service ceiling
  • Motor boost as currently modelled in-game: 2.4 sec 25700N (real life values unclear, with various sources stating different boost periods varying between 1.5-2.5 seconds and some stating boost sustain with no clear specifications for either so I’ve gone with the one currently used by gaijin themselves)
  • Maximum speed at end of motor burn: 1300m/s
  • Average speed at 18km: 700-780m/s
  • Warhead specifications: 20kg weight of which 5kg are explosives. TNT equivalent (as modelled by gaijin in-game): 8.47kg
  • Proximity fuse range: 9m (as defined by Gaijin in-game)
  • Missile weight: 72.5 kg
  • Missile weight at end of boost stage: 28kg
  • Guidance type and duration: SACLOS/30 sec
  • Maximum lateral acceleration (as defined by gaijin): 32g
  • Stabilized (Fire on the move)
    image

Radar:

  • 2RL80 Acquisition radar (S-band, 0°-60° search elevation, full 360° rotation in 2-4 seconds, ~30km acquisition range for 1m2 RCS target)
  • 1RS2-1E Radar (Ku-band, ~21km max acquisition range for 1m2 RCS target, simultaneous track and engagement of up to 4 targets)
    image

Optics:

  • Same as seen on Pantsir S1 (French Sagem MATIS LR midwave thermal imager with WFOV of 4.17° x 6.25°, and NFOV of 0.87° x 1.3°, with a o.05 mrad angular track error)
  • Elevation -5° - 82°
  • Angular tracking rate of 100°/s
  • Angular acceleration of 170°/s
    image
    image
    image
    d2decab1291ed4151a8a985f96e47de35e4150db

Mobility:

  • The main difference between the Russian Pantsir S1 and the UAE Pantsir S1E is the use of a German built MAN SX45 8x8 transporter instead of the KamAZ 6560 8x8 truck.
  • The vehicles are both of a similar weight with the KamAZ 6560 8x8 being stated at roughly 14.85 tons empty and a max load of 20 tons while the MAN SX45 8x8 has an empty weight ranging between 13-21 tons with a max load of 16 tons.
  • The MAN SX45 8x8 has a MAN D2066 LFG diesel engine producing 440hp vs the KamAZ 6560 8x8’s KamAZ-740.35-400 diesel engine producing 400hp.
  • The KamAZ has a top speed of 90kph vs the MAN’s 88kph, making the KamAZ marginally faster but likely with a slightly worse HP/T
  • Weight specification of the Pantsir S1/E can’t be found to determine an accurate hp/t for both vehicles

Pictures:

Kamaz 6560 8x8:

Pantsir S1:
image

MAN SX45 8x8:
image

Pantsir S1E:
image


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Pantsir S1E being captured:
image


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Sources:

Spoiler

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/
Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies - №1'2001 (January-February) <br>Preliminary Estimates of Russian Performance in Military-Technical Cooperation with Foreign States in 2000
USAF requests new bids on CSAR-X - Jane's Defence News
Russian-made Pantsyr anti-aircraft systems provide security for Dubai Airshow - Military & Defense - TASS
KBP 2K22/2K22M/M1 Tunguska SA-19 Grison / 96K6 Pantsir S1 / SA-22 Greyhound SPAAGM / Cамоходный Зенитный Ракетно-Пушечный Комплекс КБП 2К22М/М1 Тунгуска-М/М1 / 96К6 Панцирь-С1
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/pantsyr.htm
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/kamaz_6560.htm
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/man_sx45.htm
Pantsir S-1 | Missile Threat
Engagement and Fire Control Radars (S-Band, X-band)
Miroslav Gyűrösi, Hybrydowy zestaw przeciwlotniczy Pancyr-S1 Cz.1, NTW - Technika Wojskowa, 6/2010.
Miroslav Gyűrösi, Hybrydowy zestaw przeciwlotniczy Pancyr-S1 Cz.2, NTW - Technika Wojskowa, 8/2010.
Said Aminov, Vestnik PVO, URL: http://pvo.guns.ru/; Радиолокационная станция сопровождения цели и ракет 1PC2-Е
https://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/
Pantsir-S1 | Military Wiki | Fandom
Pantsir-S1
Pantsir S-1 | Missile Threat
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_missile_system_vehicle_uk/pantsir_pantsyr_s1_sa-22_greyhound_air_defense_missile_gun_system_technical_data_sheet_specification.html
https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/russia-to-supply-pantsir-s1-air-defence-systems-to-myanmar/
The Russian Pantsir-S1 SAM / SPAAG System
https://roe.ru/eng/catalog/air-defence-systems/air-defense-systems-and-mounts/“Pantsir-S1”/
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/pantsyr.htm

Old forum post link:

Sister post link:

Old forum sister post link:

3 Likes

Heh. Didn’t know this happened. I support.

8 Likes

While cool, the real counterplay to better russian SHORAD is the implementation of ARMs

1 Like

This part has missing/wrong information. C-17A carrying Pantsir-S1 flew to Libya from Ramstein base on 3rd of June, flew back to Ramstein on 4th. On 5th of June flew again to Libya then Turkey and on 6th finally arrived to Ramstein base. It does not really makes sense drop-off the system for just one day to Turkey, so Pantsir-S1 might be still in Turkey and also another report claimed that Turkish and American officials agreed upon analysing Pantsir-S1 in Turkey jointly. Of course, there is not way to authenticate those claims.

You can check flight course of said C-17A in this thread:
https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1354535080526454784

3 Likes

+1

And on top of that, you might want hullbreak or unrepairable radars be there.

Because otherwise the ARM is just gonna ouch my little fragile radar and I will get that thing repaired in no more than 20 seconds.

Gaijin already said that ARM uses proxy fuzes when it “knows” it’s point of contact. It will only kill radar with shrapnels, not the crew nor the vehicle itself.

Forgot to add this, but this is allegedly a picture of the system being brought to the recent large scale NATO exercises in Germany.
image-16

Thanks for the added info tho.

6 Likes

Lot of Russian players dont seem to like the idea lol

7 Likes

A 150lb warhead will do an awful lot more than simply destroy the radar.

1 Like

In War Thunder’s term that means the fragments will only go as far as 110m and guaranateed destruction range is only 5m.

That means the proximity fuze really had to work real close for that to work, since we all know how bad Gaijin’s realshatter system is.

3 Likes

I stand by my comment on the old forum: Yes. Because it would be funny to see the Russian mains mald.

12 Likes

+1 just for the chaos this will cause

1 Like

I can imagine the russian mains crying if this gets added

6 Likes

The US might have an AA in average level for top tires now, but not in the future, a little bit of a copy-and-paste sure helps. LOL

1 Like

I was about to say why is a Commy in the U.S until I read it was captured then it was okay.

1 Like

for sure +1 US currently does not have a top tier spaa

1 Like