The best WW2 tank ever made by a minor nation: Hungary's 44M Tas

[Would you like to see the 44M Tas in War Thunder?]
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Tanks from minor nations are not very common, and usually they are just slight upgrades of other nations’ tanks. Truly indigenous and unique tank designs from minor nations are rare, and those that are capable too are even more rare, but one which is entirely indigenous and better than all tanks from minor nations and even many tanks from major nations? Well there’s only one:

Flag of the Kingdom of Hungary I would like to present the best WW2 tank from any minor nation – Hungary’s 44M Tas! Flag of the Kingdom of Hungary

44M Tas 1:10 scale mockup photo|654x403.5 44M Tas model 44M Tas 1:10 scale mockup photo The original 44M Tas 1:10 scale mockup photographed from different angles. These photos surfaced in 1992 from a Czechoslovak archive

Statcards I made for the 44M Tas:

44M Tas Prototype statcard I made 44M Tas statcard I made

Specifications: (from Wikipedia)

Mass: 38 tonnes (37 long tons; 42 short tons)*

Length: 9.2 m (30 ft 2 in) with gun facing forwards*

Width: 3.5 m (11 ft 6 in)*

Height: 3 m (9 ft 10 in)*

Crew: 5 (Commander, Gunner, Driver, Loader, Radio Operator)

Armour: 20–120 mm (0.8–4.7 in)

Main armament:

-For production vehicles: 1 × 80 mm 29/44.M Bofors L/58 cannon (80 mm Bofors AA gun heavily modified for anti-tank use)
-For prototype vehicles: 1 × 7.5 cm 43.M tank gun

Secondary armament: 2 × 8 mm Gebauer 1934/40A M machine gun

Engines: 2 × gasoline Weiss Manfréd Z-V8H-4; 2 × 260 hp (2 × 195 kW) for a total of 520 hp (390 kW)

Power to weight ratio: 13.68 hp/ton

Suspension: two-wheel leaf spring bogies with shock absorbers

Operational range: 200 km (120 mi)

Maximum speed: 45 km/h (28 mph)

Type: Medium / Heavy tank

Place of origin: Kingdom of Hungary

Used by: Kingdom of Hungary

Wars: World War II

Designer: Weiss Manfréd Works

Designed: 1943

Manufacturer: Weiss Manfréd Works

Produced: 1943–1944

Number built: 2 prototypes

44M Tas specifications (from Tank Encyclopedia)

Approximate dimensions 6.3 × 3.15 × 2.7 m
(20’8” × 10’4” × 8’10”)
Total weight 36.6 t
Crew 5 (commander, driver, gunner, loader, radioman)
Propulsion 2 × Weiss Manfréd V-8H, water cooled V8 petrol, 520 hp (2 × 260 hp, 388 kW), power to weight ratio of 14 hp/t
Suspension Leaf springs
Estimated maximum speed 45 km/h (28 mph)
Armament, planned for series production * 29/44M 80 mm (3.15 in) Bofors/DIMÁVAG L/58

  • 2 × 34/40AM 8 mm (0.31 in) Gebauer machine guns
    Armament, prototypes * 43M 75 mm (2.95 in) L/43 (L/46 according to another source)
  • coaxial 34/40AM 8 mm (0.31 in) Gebauer machine gun
    Armour 20 to 120 mm (0.79-4.7 in)
    Total production Two partially completed prototypes

*Note: different sources state the dimensions of the Tas differently, however according to Károly “Karika” Németh in this source, the smaller dimensions are the correct ones, with the larger dimensions having been made due to a mistake. Therefore the dimensions from Wikipedia are likely wrong. From the bottom picture in the spoiler below, you can see how the two sizes compare and how much larger the Tas was originally thought to be.

Spoiler

Drawings of the Tas comparing the larger outdated size to the smaller, more accurate size

What is the 44M Tas?

The 44M Tas is an entirely Hungarian designed heavy/medium tank of World War II. It resembled the German Panther tank, both in terms of looks and capabilities. Comparing the two tanks, the Tas had better armour than the Panther, similar mobility (but over 10 × better reverse speed), the turret was further forward, the suspension design was completely different and the Tas would have had a powerful 80 mm gun, albeit likely less powerful than the Panther’s legendary 75 mm KwK 42. Since the 80 mm gun that was chosen for the Tas needed further development before being ready, the engineers decided to use a temporary replacement gun – the 75 mm 43.M (which is similar in performance to the Panzer IV H’s 75 mm KwK 40).

I was asked by a forum moderator to not suggest the 44M Tas’ 80 mm gun here, as this gun was planned for production vehicles whilst the 75 mm gun was planned for prototype vehicles, and production vehicles never made it into production, whilst prototype vehicles did. Therefore, I am suggesting the Tas’ 75 mm gun being added to War Thunder but I cannot suggest its 80 mm gun.

Brief history of the 44M Tas:

By 1943 Hungary’s tank production was becoming obsolete and it struggled against the modern, well armoured Soviet tanks. In response, Hungary started to develop the Turán III medium tanks (similar to a Panzer IV H) and Zrínyi I assault guns (similar to a StuG III G). However, Hungary still tried to buy the licence of powerful German vehicles such as the Panzer IV H and the Panther, but Germany refused to sell the licences. Hungary therefore had no other option than to design its own modern heavy tank to counter modern Soviet tanks with. In April 1943 the Ministry of Defense (HM) ordered the Weiss Manfréd factory to design the vehicle. The preliminary blueprints for the Tas prototypes were ready in record time, by the end of August 1943. In the same year, a group of military experts from the Institute of Military Technology of the Hungarian Army (HTI) travelled to Kummersdorf, Germany where they inspected the infamous Tiger and Panther tanks. However, these tanks were not shown to them from the inside. Since they were the only Hungarians to see the legendary German vehicles from up close in the given year, 3 HTI specialist officers took part in the design of the Tas from the very beginning. The blueprints with all of the necessary data and budget plans were finished by 3 December 1943, with photos of the 1:10 scale metal mockup of the new vehicle being given to the HTI on 6 December 1943. The vehicle ended up looking very similar to the Panther. The new heavy tank was named ‘Tas’ in honour of one of the Seven Chieftains of the Magyars (Hungarians). The HM accepted the plans and production of the iron sample vehicle started in May 1944. Construction of the prototype vehicle progressed slowly because it was not based on any existing tank, being a completely unique design. Furthermore, the tank had thick 75 and 120 mm armour plates that had to be welded together – whilst the Toldi light tanks had welded armour too, it had very thin armour plates, therefore welding these much thicker armour plates together was a relatively new, challenging method for the engineers. The engineers constantly discovered newer and newer problems which needed addressing. Constant material shortages and Allied bombing raids didn’t help either. The chassis of the Tas’ iron sample vehicle was ready in June 1944 with a fully operational suspension system and the engines installed, with the turret’s construction underway. Unfortunately, on 27 July 1944 an Allied bombing raid hit and seriously damaged the Weiss Manfréd factory. The production hall where the Tas was being made collapsed and the iron prototype vehicle completely burned out and was destroyed. The Hungarians tried to restart the project at Ganz factory but they didn’t have enough time to actually start the rebuilding of the prototype. Not much progress was made on restarting the Tas project before the Soviets invaded Hungary, capturing vital factories, crushing all hope to finish the project.

The Design of the Tas:

The suspension of the Tas was a native design, using 3 × two wheel bogies with leaf springs and shock absorbers. It had 6 medium sized road wheels, a drive wheel at the front and an idler wheel at the rear, with 5 return rollers above the road wheels. The same layout would be found on the other side. This suspension system would likely result in a smooth ride for the vehicle and its crew, whilst providing a more stable platform for firing on the move.

When it came to the engine, the Hungarians didn’t have many engines to choose from. At first, building a new V12 engine for the tank, with at least 700 hp, was considered, but unlike with the more industrialised major powers, this option was not very likely for Hungary as it would have taken too much time, resources and capacity, to design and build a powerful new engine. Instead, the engineers decided that the Tas would be powered by 2 × 8 cylinder Weiss Manfréd Z-V8H-4 gasoline engines from the Turán series (as all Turáns used the same engine). Each engine provided 260 hp (195 kW) for a total of 520 hp (390 kW). This choice had the benefits of using already tested engines in production and there were available spare parts for this engine, unlike with a new engine, which would also take a long time to develop, switch to producing and would not be compatible with other Hungarian tanks.

The drawback of this choice is that 520 hp for a tank that would weigh around 38 tonnes, would result in only around 13.68 hp/tonne, which is somewhat low. It was estimated this would give the Tas a top speed of 45 km/h and an operational range of 200 km. However, the actual mobility of the Tas may have been a little worse though, as when using two engines together to power one gearbox, some power is usually lost. Although it is still possible that the Tas could achieve these speeds as some tanks could still reach similar speeds with similar power-to-weight ratios. When it comes to the reverse speed, the Tas had the typical very high reverse speed seen on most Hungarian tanks. With 5 forward and 5 reverse gears, the Tas could reach the same top speed of around 45 km/h going forward and in reverse.

The hull of the Tas resembled the Panther’s hull, but with notable differences such as a frontal mid plate and angled corners joining the upper front plate to the upper sides of the hull. According to a surviving drawing of the hull armour thicknesses, the front of the hull of the Tas would have a heavily sloped 75 mm thick upper front plate, a 100/120 mm thick mid plate at a slight slope and a heavily sloped 75 mm thick lower plate. The Tas had sloped, angled corners of the upper front plate, but their thicknesses don’t seem to be known, although some estimate them to be 50 mm and I estimate them to be 75 mm. The sides of the hull were protected by 50 mm of sloped armour above the tracks and 50 mm of vertical armour behind the tracks. The upper section of the rear of the hull would be 100 mm thick with a slight slope and the lower section of the rear would be 50/75 mm at a decent slope. The belly and deck (underside and top of the hull) were both 20 mm thick.

Many sources list the maximum armour thickness as 120 mm so this seems to be the correct value for the mid front plate. Also it may have been increased from the original 100 mm or there might be some contradicting information. The hull was welded together which, when combined with its thick armour, meant the vehicle would have very good protection, even better than that of the German Panther (the Panther had welded but thinner armour).

Not as much is known about the turret armour thicknesses as mostly only written documents survived. However, the armour thickness seems to be 100 mm all around. It seems that the front of the turret would actually be 200 mm thick in total as the mantlet thickness is said to be 100 mm thick as well. The turret had a somewhat octagonal shape with a large, wide and curved gun mantlet, like that of the Panther A/D, but larger, covering the whole turret front. On top of the turret was a cupola with a hatch for the commander and another hatch for the gunner.

According to the original plans and the 1:10 scale metal mockup, the Tas would be armed with an 80 mm main gun – the 80 mm (3.15 in) 29/44M gun. Developed by DIMÁVAG, this was a heavily modified, licence produced derivative of the 80 mm Bofors anti-aircraft gun (which the Hungarians used as the 80 mm 29/38M L/48 anti-air gun). The 1:10 scale mockup of the Tas was modelled with this 80 mm 29/44M gun. The first prototype of the 29/44M gun was ready in October 1943, however during its first firing trials some serious flaws were revealed, requiring further development to fix. Thanks to this, it was estimated that the mass production of this 80 mm gun could not start earlier than the summer of 1944, therefore a temporary/stopgap main armament for the Tas prototypes had to be chosen. The engineers selected a 75 mm gun for this – the 7.5 cm 43.M tank gun. This is the same 75 mm gun that was used on the Turán III and the Zrínyi I. Since the 7.5 cm 43.M gun already had 2 finished examples, the production of the gun would go more smoothly than waiting for the 80 mm tank gun to be developed and then produced. With the 75 mm gun, the finished sample vehicle made of iron could be tested in the field and could easily be modified later to mount the 80 mm gun which was predicted to be ready by the time a serial vehicle made of armour plates would be finished. Ultimately, due to material shortages, the third 7.5 cm 43.M gun was never finished by the time the Tas prototypes were destroyed by Allied bombing and the DIMÁVAG factory which produced the gun was later captured by the Soviets. Both the 80 mm and 75 mm guns had gun depression and elevation angles of -9° and +20° respectively.

The planned 80 mm tank gun would have likely performed quite a bit better than the 75 mm gun, as the Hungarians wouldn’t have bothered trying to develop it and make it the main armament of the Tas if it wouldn’t be a noticeable improvement over the 75 mm gun.

Not too much is known about the 80 mm 29/44M gun, although according to one source, the penetration is estimated to be 171.4 mm and it can fire AP (some kind of APCBC rather than solid AP) and HE. From another source, some details can be found about the ammunition that the 80 mm 29/44M gun can fire; it says it can fire 29/35.M páncélgránát (APHEBC-T) shells, with a mass of 8 kg and an explosive filler of Pentolite 50/50 (mix of 50% TNT and 50% PETN). It also says this gun can fire HE, but doesn’t provide details on the HE shell. Both sources say the 80 mm 29/44M had a muzzle velocity of 872 m/s for its AP shell. They both also state the ammunition capacity as 50-80 rounds for the 80 mm gun.

A third source shows the blueprint for the 80 mm 29/35.M lgv páncélgránát shell (which I assume is the same shell that the previous source discusses) and it also says that this round had a mass of 8 kg and would be fired at 872 m/s. On top of that, it says this shell would have 230 g of explosive mass. The 80 mm gun of the Tas would likely have fired this shell.

Spoiler

The blueprint of the 80 mm 29/35.M lgv páncélgránát shell, which the Tas would likely have fired:

The Tas was also armed with a coaxial machine gun – an 8 mm Gebauer 1934/40A M. A second machine gun placed in the front of the hull and controlled by the radio operator was also considered although it is not present on the mockup photos – it may have been removed from the design or it may have been added after the mockup photos were made.

The 8 mm Gebauer 1934/40A M machine gun (also called 1934/40.M or 34/40M) is a gas-operated Hungarian tank machine gun. It is chambered for 8x56mmR and is belt fed. Its muzzle velocity is 730 m/s and its rate of fire is 1000 rounds per minute, although these are given as 750 m/s and 950 rpm respectively in the same document but referenced to a different source. According to this source, the Tas seems to be able to take 3000 rounds of machine gun ammunition in 100 round belts. Reportedly, the unique sound of these Gebauers brought fear to the Soviet soldiers on the Eastern Front. All captured useable Gebauer machine guns were taken by the Red Army back to the USSR.

Surviving blueprints of the 44M Tas and the only (known) surviving part of the Tas – the gun sight/optics for the 80 mm main gun: (credit to @atta26hu for finding these)

Spoiler

1597418_70480_44M_Tas_orig__szivozsalu1.

Panel on the engine deck of the Tas

Taseroatvitelirajza1-300x212.jpg

The Tas’ transmission

iranyvaltoessebessegkapcsolo-300x212.jpg

The Tas’ gear reverser and gear shift

kormanytengeylkapcsolo-300x212.jpg

The Tas’ steering and clutch

Lancfeszito-kerek-es-lancfeszito-szerkez

The blueprint of the idler wheel of the Tas

Sebessegvaltohaz-300x212.jpg

Sebessegvalto-kezi-emelokarja-300x212.jp
The Tas’ gearbox

A-Tas-harckocsi-futomu-osszeallitasi-raj

The blueprint of the running gear of the Tas

A-Tas-motorok-elhelyezese-a-motorok-homl

The engine’s position/location when viewed from the crew compartment

44M Tas main gun sight

Image of the surviving gun sight/optics for the 80 mm main gun of the 44M Tas

44M Tas main gun sight (above) with M4 Sherman's sight (below)

The surviving gun sight/optics for the 80 mm main gun of the 44M Tas (longer/above) with the M4 Sherman’s gun sight for comparison (shorter/below)

img

Presumably the reticle for the Tas’ main gun sight/optics

Why add the 44M Tas to War Thunder?

There are many good reasons the 44M Tas should be added to War Thunder, firstly from a gameplay perspective, it would be the first heavy tank in the Italian tree, thus being vital for completing heavy tank challenges. The Tas would also have a unique playstyle for Italian tanks as it would finally give Italy a well-armoured WW2 vehicle that can rely on its strong armour, unlike their endless unarmoured trucks, cars and light tanks, or their numerous average armour tanks and SPGs. It would also be a vital part of Italy’s mid tier WW2 tanks, completing their 4.7 lineup (if it becomes a 4.7 tank). Since the Tas is from a minor nation, is a completely unique/indigenous design, most people haven’t heard of it, and it is a capable mid tier vehicle (rather than some low tier one), it would make for an interesting new addition for people to learn about, and an enjoyable vehicle to play. From a symbolic perspective, it is the only true Hungarian heavy tank, and the only true heavy tank from any minor nation. Considering it is also the best tank ever made by a minor nation during WW2, it should certainly have a place in this game. From a historical perspective, the Tas was an impressive accomplishment for Hungarian tank design and had a unique story cut short by the fate of history and the tide of the Second World War. It has been largely forgotten with few people knowing it ever existed. Why should we let such an impressive feat and design for a minor nation be forgotten when we have the perfect place for this vehicle to live on in and demonstrate its capabilities in?

How would the Tas be added to War Thunder?

Since Hungarian vehicles have come to the Italian tree in the form of a subtree, the Tas will be added to the Hungarian subtree of the Italian tech tree. It could (and should) be added as a researchable vehicle in the Hungarian subtree line, filling in Hungary’s rank 3 or 4, likely coming at a BR of 4.7-5.7 (depending on which gun it gets). This would fill the huge gap in the Hungarian subtree from the 3.7 Turan III to the 6.0 2S1. It could also be added as a premium tank for Golden Eagles, likely costing somewhere around 1750-2980 GE. This option would nicely fill in Italy’s massive premium tank gap from the 3.7 Panzer IV G to the 6.3 M26 “D.C.Ariete” (fitting nicely between these at around 4.7). Another option would be to add the Tas as an event premium vehicle or a battle pass vehicle, however I don’t think these options are the right choice for the Tas as they would seriously limit how many people can get this already forgotten tank – it shouldn’t be forgotten in War Thunder too. Furthermore, battle pass and event premiums are usually strange, unconventional and experimental vehicles – the Tas doesn’t fit this trend as it is a conventional tank, it is like the Hungarian equivalent of the Tiger I or Panther so I would strongly recommend adding the Tas as a researchable vehicle to fill in the Hungarian line. The Italian tech tree and the Hungarian subtree line need the Tas to be researchable.

I wanted both the 75 mm (75 mm 43.M) and 80 mm (80 mm 29/44M) guns to be options for the Tas, but a moderator told me only to suggest the 75 mm gun and not the 80 mm gun because prototype vehicles (originally planned to have the 80 mm gun, but then changed to the 75 mm gun) were being built, but production vehicles (planned to only have the 80 mm gun) weren’t. Which guns the Tas gets is Gaijin’s choice in the end. If they do decide to consider the 80 mm gun, the Tas should be added as two separate tanks with one having the 75 mm gun and the other having the 80 mm gun (at a higher BR like 5.3).

Another choice to consider is what battle rating (BR) the Tas should be. I think the Tas (with the 75 mm gun) should be a BR 4.7 vehicle. My justification for this is that the Tas uses the same gun (75 mm 43.M) as the Zrínyi I (BR 4.0) and the Turán III (BR 3.7), but it has much better armour than both of these. Because of the much better armour, the Tas should be at a higher BR than the Zrínyi I and Turán III, but not at too high of a BR, or else its gun would be useless at such a tier. We can think of the Tas as having the gun of a 3.7/4.0 tank and the armour of a 5.0/5.3 tank, so the tank should overall be a 4.7 vehicle – at a lower BR than this the Tas’ armour would be too strong, but at a higher BR than this the Tas’ gun would be too weak.

The last thing to consider would be whether the Tas should be classed as a heavy tank or a medium tank. I think it should be a heavy tank – whilst the Tas is similar to the Panther which is classed as a medium, the Tas has better armour than the Panther, is a little bit slower, and has a 75 mm gun that is not as strong as the Panther’s very powerful main gun. Since the Panther is already considered a medium/heavy hybrid, the fact that the Tas is more armoured and a little bit slower is enough to class it as a heavy tank. Furthermore, Hungary classed the Tas as a heavy tank and when you look at the Tas from a minor nation’s point of view, it was the most armoured WW2 tank ever made by any minor nation. Also, heavy tank classification is not based on a specific weight or armour thickness, but more so on what the vehicle prioritises. Since the Tas clearly prioritised armour and firepower over mobility, just like any other heavy tank, it should be classed as one. After all, the Italian P26/40 was classed as a heavy tank whilst weighing a puny 26 tonnes and having poor protection, with its thickest armour being only 60 mm. Contrast that to the 36.6 or 38 tonne Tas with 120 mm thick angled armour plates and around a 200 mm thick turret front. Another example is how the Sherman Jumbo (M4A3E2) is classed as a heavy tank in War Thunder, whilst only weighing 37.8 tonnes – the Tas weighs around this much as well, with similarly good armour and a better gun. From a gameplay point of view the Tas should also be classed as a heavy tank because Italy doesn’t have any heavy tanks in their entire tree. At least if the Italian tree had the Tas, Italy players could complete heavy tank challenges.

What would it be like in War Thunder?

The Tas would likely be played somewhat like a Panther, using strong frontal armour to take hits whilst returning fire with a capable gun and then repositioning/flanking using decent mobility. However, where Panther players would only be able to reverse at 4 km/h and so would pay dearly for any mistake they make, Tas players would be able to zoom away from the danger reversing at around 45 km/h! Tas players would have to hide their weak side armour and make sure not to be flanked, just like with the Panther, and most tanks in general. Also the Tas’ 20 mm thick deck/roof armour would be vulnerable to CAS aircraft with AP belts and cannons. The Tas would have pretty similar mobility to the Panther, however, as already mentioned, it would have a much better reverse speed, being able to go backwards as fast as it can drive forwards, like other Hungarian tanks including the Turán and Zrínyi tanks. This information is supported by this source, as well as this source stating the Tas had 5 forward gears and 5 reverse gears. This is also supported by the fact that the Tas is powered by two of the Turán’s engines, so logically, it should also inherit the Turán’s ability to reverse as fast as it can go forwards. The Tas would be like a more armoured Panther, with roughly the same mobility (but much better reverse speed) and a weaker gun (the 75 mm 43.M gun) – therefore we can say it would be like a Panther-Tiger hybrid. Since the Tas prioritises armour over mobility and firepower, it should be classed as a heavy tank (it was classed as one in real life). The 44M Tas (prototype) with the 75 mm 43.M gun, likely at 4.7, would fit nicely into the Italy 4.7 ground lineup alongside the M4 Tipo IC, 75/46 M43 Semovente, Breda 501, SM.92 and C.205 serie 3.

Details of the Tas’ guns and how these would perform in War Thunder:

The 75 mm 43.M tank gun is already in War Thunder as the main gun of the Turán III and Zrínyi I, so its performance when mounted on the Tas should be almost identical, apart from the reload time which can be lowered for the Tas to compensate for it having the same gun as a 3.7/4.0 tank at a higher BR such as 4.7. It may also have slightly more penetration and muzzle velocity on the Tas as the Tas’ 75 mm 43.M gun may have been a bit longer. From this source, the gun depression and elevation angles on the 44M Tas seem to be -9° and +20° respectively for both guns. The 44M Tas (prototype) with the 75 mm gun (likely at 4.7) might struggle to penetrate well-armoured tanks in an uptier, although it probably could still destroy such tanks from the sides or by shooting their weak points.

I was asked by a forum moderator to not suggest the 44M Tas’ planned 80 mm 29/44M gun here. I have left information about this 80 mm gun in the ‘Design of the Tas’ section above just in case, however the 80 mm gun is not being suggested for addition to War Thunder, only the 75 mm gun is being suggested for addition into the game. With that being said, I will still provide information for how this gun might perform in War Thunder. The ammunition available for the 80 mm gun seems to have consisted of an APHECBC shell, an HE shell, and a HEAT shell, as well as possibly more. According to this source, the penetration is estimated to be 171.4 mm for the AP round. From another source, some details can be found about the AP round; it says it can fire 29/35.M páncélgránát (APHEBC-T) shells, with a mass of 8 kg and an explosive filler of Pentolite 50/50 (mix of 50% TNT and 50% PETN). Both sources say the 80 mm 29/44M had a muzzle velocity of 872 m/s for its AP shell. They both also state the ammunition capacity as 50-80 rounds for the 80 mm gun. A third source shows the blueprint for the 80 mm 29/35.M lgv páncélgránát shell (which I assume is the same shell that the previous source discusses) and it also says that this round had a mass of 8 kg and would be fired at 872 m/s. On top of that, it says this shell would have 230 g of explosive mass. Using Gaijin’s penetration calculator, this round would have 156 mm of penetration in-game. The 80 mm gun of the 44M Tas would likely have fired this shell.

Spoiler

The blueprint of the 80 mm 29/35.M lgv páncélgránát shell, which the Tas would likely have fired:

The Tas’ secondary armament – the Hungarian 8 mm Gebauer 1934/40A M tank machine gun – seems to already be in War Thunder as the 34/40M, however from the in-game image this instead looks like a 1934/37A M or a 1934A M machine gun. Also its in-game rate of fire is 900 rpm, whereas my main source says the rate of fire was 1000 or 950 rpm. I’m not sure what the muzzle velocity is in-game but according to my source it should be 730 or 750 m/s. The belt capacity of 100 rounds seems to be correct.

Below you can see what War Thunder’s 34/40M looks like compared to the real 34/40M, as well as the gun that Gaijin likely modelled instead of the 34/40M:

Spoiler

The 34/40M (Gebauer 1934/40A M) in War Thunder:

The 34/40M (Gebauer 1934/40A M) inside a Toldi IIA in War Thunder

The Gebauer 1934/40A M (also called 34/40M or 34/40A) in real life. This is what War Thunder’s 34/40M should look like:

A labelled drawing of the 8 mm Gebauer 1934/40A M machine gun

Two Gebauer 1934/37A M machine guns (in a twin gun mount). War Thunder’s 34/40M looks like this gun instead:

Two Gebauer 1934/37A M machine guns in a twin gun mount

In War Thunder the Tas would have a coaxial 8 mm Gebauer 1934/40A M (also called 1934/40.M or 34/40M) machine gun which would be vital for destroying trucks and open-top vehicles. A second machine gun in the front of the hull (controlled by the radio operator) was also considered during development so the Tas might also get this second machine gun, although this likely won’t be as useful as the coaxial one as it would only be able to fire in the direction that the hull is facing. According to this source, the Tas seems to be able to take 3000 rounds of machine gun ammunition in 100 round belts – this is plenty of machine gun ammunition in War Thunder. Reportedly, the unique sound of these machine guns brought fear to the Soviet soldiers on the Eastern Front, however I have no idea what these guns sounded like so what they would sound like in War Thunder is up to Gaijin to decide.

Images of the machine gun:

Spoiler

Below from top to bottom: the Gebauer 1934/40A M, a cross-section diagram of the Gebauer 1934/40A M, the feeding system of the Gebauer 1934/40A M. These images can also be found at the end of this post under the gallery section.
An image of the Gebauer 1934/40A M machine gun A cross-section diagram of the Gebauer 1934/40A M An image of the feeding system and ammunition of the Gebauer 1934/40A M

If you want to see more about this tank, watch ConeOfArc’s video on the 44M Tas:

Sources used:

I use brackets like these {note} at the end of sources for any notes about the sources.

  • Németh, Károly (18 May 2017). “44M Tas” . Tank Encyclopedia . {An encyclopedia website about tanks, this article being specifically on the 44M Tas. At the bottom of the article can be found a full list of the sources used in the article.}
  • Jacky 95 (12 April 2018). “The 44.M Tas Prototype Heavy Tank” . Hungarianmilitaryww2 . {A website about the 44M Tas, includes lots of detailed information, mostly reliable although not fully.}
  • Pap, Péter (28 September 2012). “ADATTÁR GEBAUER FERENC FEGYVERKONSTRUKTŐR PÁLYAFUTÁSÁHOZ ÉS AZ ÁLTALA TERVEZETT LŐFEGYVEREK KATEGORIZÁLÁSA” [Data Repository on the career of firearms designer Ferenc Gebauer and the categorisation of the firearms designed by him] (PDF). Hadtörténelmi Közlemények a Hadtörténeti Intézet és Múzeum folyóirata (in Hungarian). 125 (3) – via epa.oszk.hu. {A journal source, contains information on the Gebauer machine gun that the 44M Tas would have had as its secondary armament and its ammunition, contains references to where the information is from.}

Sources I only used for a few sentences:

Now, over to you. What are your thoughts on the 44M Tas? Do you think it should be added to War Thunder? :yes_yes_yes:

Gallery:

Below is an image of the 44M Tas’ scale model next to that of the Turán II. Below that is an image showing the Tas’ 1:10 scale mockup from more angles, and below that is a drawing of the hull armour thicknesses and dimensions of the Tas (the thicknesses may have been changed after this drawing was made, so it may be outdated), then a drawing of the hull and suspension of the Tas with dimensions, followed by another drawing of the Tas’ hull. Below those are two images of a model of the Tas, showing what it could have looked like when battle-ready (credits to Mig Eater for this model). Below those are three images of the Tas’ machine gun, the 8 mm Gebauer 1934/40A M. The first of these images shows the gun itself, the second image shows a cross-section diagram of the machine gun and the third image shows the feeding system and ammunition of the Gebauer 1934/40A M. The next four images were found by @atta26hu. The first of these is the blueprint of the running gear of the Tas, the second image is the blueprint of the idler wheel of the Tas. The third and fourth images are of the only known surviving part of the 44M Tas – the gun sight/optics for the 80 mm main gun. Note that the fourth image shows two gun sights/optics, the Tas’ gun sight is the top/longer one, whilst the bottom/shorter one is the M4 Sherman’s gun sight placed there for comparison. The final image is presumably the reticle for the Tas’ main gun sight/optics (Source: https://www.facebook.com/hadtorteneti.muzeum/posts/… ).

Note that images of the 44M Tas show it with the 80 mm gun.

Mockups of the 44M Tas and the Turan II next to each other The original 44M Tas 1:10 scale mockup photographed from different angles. These photos surfaced in 1992 from a Czechoslovak archive Drawing of the hull armour and dimensions Drawing of the hull of the Tas with dimensions The hull of the Tas A model showing what the Tas could have looked like when in service A model showing what the Tas could have looked like when in service An image of the Gebauer 1934/40A M machine gun A cross-section diagram of the Gebauer 1934/40A M An image of the feeding system and ammunition of the Gebauer 1934/40A M

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44M Tas main gun sight

44M Tas main gun sight (above) with M4 Sherman's sight (below)

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Hey, I just copied my post from the old forum to here, can someone explain how on earth I’m supposed to edit my post? The images are unnecessarily huge and this brilliant forum seems to have no way to change the size of an image - literally the most basic and essential feature. I don’t see any way to access the image captions, everything is using stupid code language which is not user friendly at all. Even making the poll was a nightmare.

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That’s the new forum. No idea why they “upgraded” from the old one with no discernable new features, less user-friendly, no importing of the wealth of informative posts of the old forum, janky UI, and a fraction of the already low users.

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Wait, I can’t even change the size of the images? This new forum is even worse than I thought, not to mention the millions of hours of work and information that will be lost. Please do excuse the shocking presentation of this post - my original looked much better.

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+1

Well researched and very excited! I hope this gets the traction to be added soon.

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Thank you, I appreciate it!

With Hungary officially being added, there is ABSOLUTELY no way they can exclude this tank. I feel that both the 8cm and 7.5cm variants must be added. +1 for both.

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An absolute +1 from me, both the 7.5cm and 8cm versions are a definite must-have for the tech tree, especially considering the 8cm gun was indeed built and tested.

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Look Like the engineers took the Best from germany and russia.

The front/turret from the Panther and the side/hull from the T-34.

Definetely worth the add. The hungarian Tanks are the unsung heroes (Never know that they had their own Tanks).

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Especially now this would make for a wonderful addition to the game, both versions.
+1

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+1, this would be greatly beneficial towards italy’s lack of heavy tanks

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image
edit ‘image’ to change the picture title
edit ‘1080x720’ to change image aspect/ size

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Thank you

Looks cool…but also looks like they left Panther and T-34-85 alone in one room and 9 months after this came out…i cant help it, it just looks like that to me

Yeah, the shape of the 44M Tas was inspired by the Panther, and the Panther itself was inspired by the T-34. I think the Hungarians combined the best parts of the Panther (strong armour, good gun, ok mobility) with the best parts of the T-34 (simplicity, ease of mass production, use of more reliable parts) to make the 44M Tas.

Would love to see it get added, but if it isn’t a running prototype I doubt Gaijin would consider, at least with their current policy.

The only requirements for suggesting a vehicle for WT are that it has to have had a partially completed prototype, which this did, so I don’t see why some of you are doubting its validity. Considering the only part of the Ho-Ri that was ever built was its naval gun and it was still added, or the E-100 and Chi-Ri had similarly incomplete prototypes and were still added, or the R2Y2 was never made as a jet and it was still added as a jet, the Ki-200 was never made, etc., the 44M Tas has a perfectly fine chance of being added. Enough is known about the Tas to model it 90% accurately, which is good enough considering more well known vehicles are sometimes less accurately modelled by Gaijin.

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A lot of the Japanese stuff that are of paper/prototypes were added due to the old consultant forging documents into them being real; the E-100 stopped being circulated after the last tournament event and it was a special vehicle anyway

Wow, I didn’t know that. But still, it’s allowed to be suggested and there are vehicles in a similar situation (or worse) already in WT. Besides, this vehicle was being built and would have been completed had the factory not been unfortunately bombed. Unlike a major country’s prototype that they decided they were no longer interested in and then abandoned the project, Hungary definitely would have completed and pursued the development of this vehicle as much as possible. At this point we are speaking of banning this vehicle on the basis of external historical factors like who is winning a world war. That’s not exactly fair. We can’t decide that a vehicle can’t be added based on where some bombs landed, just imagine the Maus prototype is nearly complete but is destroyed by a random meteorite, would it be fair to say we can’t have the Maus in WT then?

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I’m personally ok with adding half completed or soon to be completed vehicles, this is a Gaijin’s policy whether they choose to or not.

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