Yeah, ultimately it’s their decision, although I highly recommend adding this vehicle because of how important it is. Not only would it be the first heavy tank in the Italian tree, it would also plug a massive gap in the Hungarian subtree (from the Turan III at 3.7 to the 2S1 at 6.0), it’s also unique, interesting, powerful, fun, so would likely be a popular vehicle, and it would help form a good lineup at its BR. Personally, I think this would become the most popular vehicle in the Hungarian subtree (save maybe the Lynx KF41), so it would be well worth the effort to implement it.
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Link for those who want to see the old forum
Old forum link: The best WW2 tank ever made by a minor nation: Hungary's 44M Tas - Other Nations - War Thunder - Official Forum
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I wondering what kind of reversing speed the 44M is. same as Panther -4km/h?
Great question, but no, I highly doubt it would be that bad, and it shares no components with the Panther so there is no reason it should be -4 km/h.
If you’ve seen the Hungarian Turan I, II, and III medium tanks, or the Zrinyi I and II tank destroyers, then you’ll probably remember that they can reverse really quickly (around -43 km/h). They can reverse at the same speed that they can go forwards with. This is thanks to their great transmissions and engines. All 5 of these tanks have the exact same engine and transmission.
The 44M Tas has two of these exact same engines powering it, and I’m also assuming that this means it also has the same transmission as those 5 tanks, meaning it should also be able to reverse as fast as it can go forwards. Even if the transmission is different, I would still assume that the Hungarians would ensure that it can reverse at a good speed, as this seems to be a common trait of Hungarian vehicles.
I don’t have exact information on the reverse speed of the 44M Tas, but the information is probably out there, or can be calculated considering the blueprints for the transmission survived and the engines are known.
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Very cool looking tank and great source research there ! Was the tank fully built and tested in operational condition ?
It would be a great addition to the game for sure but the BR proposed are too low imo, the one with the 75mm gun would be at 5.0 while the one with the more potent 80 mm gun would be at 5.7. This thing is basically a better designed Panther smaller ( a bit ) sports better armor overall and a comparable gun for the 8cm version )
Do you have access to primary docs that list the weight of the thing ? Given the volume and the armor profile, 38 tons seems a bit low to me, in combat condition it’d have likely weighted around 40/41 tons.
Great job anyways
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Definitely +1 from me, I want to see this tanks in game so badly, its my dream
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Great vehicle, I would say it very similar in state to the Japanese Type 5 Chi-Ri. In the sense they were both incomplete prototypes, it just we got no pictures of the hull in the chase of the Tas, as 2 hulls where built from my understanding, +1 for me
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The Turan’s engines seem so much more powerful, imagine x2… Sign me in!
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The Tas would have the same speed backwards as forwards thanks to its transmission. 5 forwards and 5 backwards gears, this means it could go 44,5 km/h in both ways.
some source:
http://real-j.mtak.hu/11727/1/Haditechnika_2006.pdf at page 454
I dont have books sadly, but if I remember it correctly there are books that mention the gears as well :)
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Sadly it was not fully built because the factory was bombed :(
From what I know is that it would have a total weight of 36.6 t
It should have 31 970 kg weight without it being combat ready and 36 600 with its combat stuff. But this is what is written. I dont know if it would have had 40/41 tons because other things impact its weight like the transmission, engine, ammunition and etc…
Sadly I cant provide you with first hand sources because it maybe got destroyed or its hidden.
Some sources for the weight:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150829080121/http://pancelvadasz.info/a-magyar-tas-43-m-nehezharckocsi-fejlesztese-2-resz/
http://real-j.mtak.hu/11727/1/Haditechnika_2006.pdf at page 454
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Thanks, like @atta26hu said, unfortunately the tank was not fully built and tested. Here is what we know from surviving information (a lot of information was lost during and after the war):
-The 44M Tas had two examples in production.
-The chassis for at least one was definitely fully completed and functional with a built in engine, probably transmission, etc., however it doesn’t seem to have been tested.
-The turret was under construction when the bombing raid destroyed the factory and the vehicle.
-The 75 mm 43.M was already completed with two examples which were already tested.
-The 80 mm gun seems to have been completed and tested, but needed further modifications before it was ready. It seems these modifications were not finished before the Soviets invaded Hungary.
-The gun sights for both the 75 mm and 80 mm guns were completed and ready - the gun sight for the 80 mm gun survives to this day and pictures of it can be found in my original post.
From this, we can see that the 44M Tas was well over 50% completed, I’d say it was around 75% complete. This should be perfectly fine for addition to War Thunder.
Yes, I considered those BRs too. I think 5.0 might be too high for the 75 mm version considering it is still using the same gun as a 3.7 and a 4.0 tank, but has more armour. The BR of the 80 mm version could really range anywhere from 5.0-6.0 depending on the exact performance of the gun and how Gaijin implements/balances the vehicle.
I don’t have access to primary sources, I just research this for fun on the internet, I do not have access to the actual surviving documents from archives and such, and the information/pictures from these are not very accessible on the internet.
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Yeah, I agree, I think the Chi-Ri is a good comparison for its completeness. Pictures were probably taken of the 44M Tas hull, but since so many documents/pictures were lost during and after the war, there is a good chance that any images of it did not survive. Also, some information is only found decades later such as the images of the scale mockup of the Tas which were found in a Czech archive in the 1990s. If an image of the 44M Tas hull is still out there, it may still be lying in some old Russian archive until the 2040s or something. Anyway, that shouldn’t prevent the Tas from being added to WT.
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Wow. Great find! Honestly, I’m impressed, but not too surprised that I was right about the reverse speed. Hungarian WW2 tank designers seemed to love good reverse speeds!
But seriously, can you just imagine a heavy tank with great armour and a nice gun reversing at more than 44 km/h! Now if it gets smoke (I don’t know if it was planned or not), then this would be so survivable in a retreat. Honestly this could be the better Panther depending on the 80 mm gun’s performance.
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+1.It looks really cool
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It is a shame Hungarian Sub-Tree does not came with 44M Tas, would be great addition. As I’ve suggested back then, you better of making two separate suggestions for 75mm and 80mm armed Tas. Anyways, great addition.
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Thanks mate, that will be very good evidence.
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Hi guys!
I got in to connection with one of the Haditechnika magazines writer and I asked him about the 29/35.M shell that would be fired from the 80mm gun. I have the blueprints for some time now but never posted it so I will post it now.
Now, we can read that the shell is 8 kg in weight and has 230 g of explosive mass, which is a LOT. If I remember correctly the 80mm cannon would fire the shells with 872 m/s. Using Gaijins penetration calculator and enabling that this shell is APHECBC, we have a penetration of ~156 mm.
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That’s awesome! Great work in finding it and sharing with us.
Do we know what kind of filler it had? Standard TNT, I assume?
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Thanks!
Its TNT if I am right, so you assumed correctly and 230 g of it is a huge amount.
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That‘s very impressive, and it was an APHECBC, which will better than USSR 85mm shells
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