honestly a very strange criteria for inclusion in the game, china never used the T34-85 during ww2, but they still had the second most fielded ever. likewise france was the second largest user of the panther, sure it was postwar, but its not like this is exclusively a ww2 game, nor has it been for a very very long time. hungary got a few panthers during the war, enough to make up a large portion of their armoured group, and romania got a few T-Vs after the war from the USSR,
you should look at it as italy getting a panther, but as hungary or romania getting one and both have good justification for it
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So i was told on previous discussion…and i understand the point. My view is that ODD (in the sense that they were historically irrelevant or non-existent) vehicles like these (French or Italian Panther) should NOT be as easy to field as the historical (German) version…so some mechanism should make them RARE.
Making them premium works somewhat…and is good for sales in France or Italy i guess…BUT a 0.3BR premium doesn’t sound so bad TO ME…even assuming this would create a bad precedent…
Russians already have a Panther…France also…it would make it a bit odd if “allied” would field several Panthers on a “Axis vs allies” macth…
Not sure if it still happens…but some air matches were P47s (US, Germany, Brits, China, Russia, Italy) for everyone some time ago…and it was neither fun nor historical… :)
Hungary was the only non-German Axis country that used the Tiger and Panther. Not captured it, not bought it, but never received it like Japan, but had it in service.
Its interesting to start scrutinizing such vehicles after Italy received its American c&p that Italy mains were so desperate for.
Hungary is a nation in War Thunder, and like any other in-game, it has the right to vehicles that were in service in its army. Especially ones that were acquired by normal means, as in, not captured trophy vehicles.
It could be a premium as Hungary has the TAS that is eligible for addition with two different calibers. It would certainly make a great full lineup. Something that the Italian tree had problems with for a long time and still sort of has.
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Hungary as a sub-tree is meant precisely to fill the gaps in the Italian tech tree, so Hungarian vehicles are welcome where they’re needed. Now, setting aside the TAS, which I don’t know well but seems a bit obscure and maybe highly prototypical for the game, a Panther D at BR 5.3 is quite irrelevant. If it had been one of the Panthers at 6.0, it would have made more sense — but as it is, at this point a T-34-85 is better: even though it’s at BR 5.7, it works perfectly to fill the gap left by the absence of a proper medium tank at BR 6.
The Panther D could work as a premium, like they did with the ‘Tigris’, or in an event. But aside from being a collector’s item, it doesn’t really contribute much to the tech tree — a 5.3 tank doesn’t even have a line. A tank at 5.3 does nothing but constantly drag you into 6.0 matches, with the rest of the line sitting at 5.0. I recently had (again) the same experience with the VC, and honestly, it’s not something I ever want to go through again.
Anyway, history doesn’t change: Italian development basically stopped in 1943, and after that came the American tanks. If someone’s unhappy about that, well, there’s not much that can be done
That’s your interpretation based on zero official gaijin statements.
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THIS^^ makes no sense to me…
Lots of vehicles have as “second largest” user some nation that captured a few of them…that does NOT justify adding these vehicles to that nation…
I know france/panther situation is a bit different…but irrelevant nonetheless…knowing that French Panthers are used on games with german Panthers…
If you want a “Panther” on the italian tree…this makes more sense in WT terms…even if i still think it should get a BR “hike”…
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Unfortunately the 44m was never fully built
Fortunately the hungarians did get given panthers by germany, making them the second biggest user of non captured panthers
It was partially built, so it is eligible for addition.
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it was about 80~% done, I think. It was bombed on 07.27 but the turret ring was functional in June, and the turret was being welded together from 07.06 onwards. Only the 80mm gun was late, due to which they ordered a stopgap 76mm. (The optic for the 80mm still exists today)
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Um, tell that to all the US vehicles in nearly everyone else’s tree?
That bridge has been crossed long ago. Also, I don’t see an issue with an Axis nation getting an Axis vehicle.
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It won’t…having vehicles on “similar” sides is less of a problem. In some cases these vehicles were even used a lot (i.e. Brit Shermans).
BUT…if you put a very good tank on many nations, it will become omnipresent…hence boring…you could have only Tigers and Panthers at axis 6.0…adding eventual russian and french ones :)
THAT SAID…Italian Panther as a premium is not the worst case, and Italy 6.0 is already a mess…but i fail to see justification for it…as in the french case, hence my opinion…
Having Italian Panther just because Italian players want a shiny toy is not the best idea…as it was NOT in many cases in the past…
EDIT:
I changed my post instead of adding a new one by mistake…my bad…
Anyhow…the point is clear enough…
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I don’t see how an Axis nation getting an Axis tank will make it more boring compared to Axis nations getting Allied tanks.
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It’s fake. The full metal model was made after the war.
Hungary had Panther tanks in ww2 (see the post from Jul 7 above yours) that were in the 2nd armored division.
I believe there is a Hungary tree within the Italian Tech Tree, so adding it there would not be inconsistent.
As for France - apparently they recovered enough operable vehicles to equip the 503e Regiment de Chars de Combat with 50 Panthers.
How does gaijin justify adding the prototype Falcon spaa to UK (MAIN) Tech Tree, while denying France and Italy (Hungary) access to the Panther when they actually used those tanks?
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Stop giving all nations the same tanks. If you want to play Tigers and Panthers play Germany.
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So we shall draw the line at the only non-German Axis ally that operated tigers and Panthers. Not before all the captured, never-delivered ones got added? The milk was spilled long ago, and if any nation outside Germany deserves to have these in-game, it is the one that operated them as an ally.
Don’t see much of a difference between an M18 that Italy “must have” and a Panther that Hungary must have. Which would also complement the lineup of the TAS…If Gaijin ever stops making every update almost all c&p. As it seems nowadays, if they cant share a unique model between 5 tech trees, it all of a sudden becomes “longer term plans”.
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There are american tanks in almost every country tech tree.
Maybe if Gaijin would add an indigenous Italian tank in the tech tree for missing 5.7 ground vehicles then that would be great. But if there are none existing, then adding the panther to Italian tree is not unreasonable. It’s not like ppl are asking for Panther to be available to countries that never used it.
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A Gap is a gap. Thats why we have different nations to play, which should maintain some differences.
its odd that certain nations dont have captured or lend lease vehicles of such notability
minor nation tax ig
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The “differences” are for experiences, not handi-caps. It’s just silly to accept built-in handi-caps to specific countries. Some countries (Germany, USA) have more options at specific BRs. But makes no sense to leave some nations with no options.
- Hungary is a sub-tree of Italy Tech Tree
- Panther is a viable medium tank used by Hungary that can slot between the Turan III and the 2S1.
There is no excuse for Italy to not have a decent 5.7 medium tank when a perfectly acceptable solution would be the Hungarian Panther.