Su-39 should receive Khod/Kinzhal pod if it gets the R-27ER1 and R-77

Prelude

13 days ago, a bug report about the SU-39 having the kopyo-25 radar but missing the missiles it would guide, the R-27ER1 and the R-77, was accepted. Below you can see for yourselves the bug report:

Missing R-27ER1 and R-77 bug report accepted

When first the addition of the Khod/Kinzhal pod and the “missing missiles” was discussed, the problem for adding these were how could they be balanced, considering they were the top performance missiles at the time. The discussion started one year and a half before:

R-77, R-73 and R-27 Thread

Khod/Kinzhal thread

In the Khod pod discussion, also there was discussed the missing A2A missiles:

The manager answered as follows.

Which is valid, considering the top tier for that time was much more compressed(I think it only was up to 11.7 for air and there wasn’t yet separation of Ground BR and Air BR for aircraft. As for the Khod:

Basically saying: at that time the SU-39 seemed like a balanced aircraft at it’s BR, and there wasn’t much room for moving it up adding the missing features without creating a balancing hell, so there wasn’t much of a balancing reason to add them.

In any moment seemed like the veracity of the “flesh” – of the existence of such experimental containers – was doubted. The Kinzhal is probably the only who can’t be proved because of lack of information.

There was even more to the discussion, but this brevis prelude may give you some enlightenment on my reasoning behind this “proposal”.

Present

The bug report about the “missing missiles” was accepted, which do represent a different approach of the devs to the balancing of the SU-39. Before only the kopyo-25 was there, maybe because they already thought about the possibility of adding them.

And it also seemed like they thought about the Khod/Kinzhal pod.

Now R-27 and the R-77 are to be added in the future for the SU-39, which seems great for all lovers of the SU-39, but it is mister one not forget about this: the missiles implies in BR changes for the SU-39, in ARB and specially in GRB.

With these missiles, most likely the SU-39 will be moved up to RB 12.0 GRB, considering it have lesser weapons loadouts when comparing it with the SU-25SM3 but still good ground strike power. The Sea Harrier that carries four AIM-120 is at a RB 11.7 GRB, without having any guided weapons at all, being also an subsonic.

At this BR, long range SPAA will be the rule, and more than that the aircraft that populates that BR are much more dangerous. And the state it’s ground pounding capabilities are right now hardly can match any strike aircraft at those BRs.

The SU-39 is a strike aircraft: no matter how much air power it gets, it will always have to fly defensively because it is a fat flying whale, so it’s performance depends on it’s ground pounding capabilities.

Almost every SPAA will be able to cock you in any engagement you make, because the De Facto range limit the SU-39 have for it’s laser guided weapons or for the distance it can obtain a TV target lock is always under 10 kilometers. Excluding the problem it’s targeting pod already have with the angles in which it can aim it will be a very situational strike aircraft in that scenery.

Even the weather and the damned sun are great opponents to the performance of this aircraft because of the lack of a thermal imager.

As I’m seeing right now, the addition of the R-77 and R-27ER can only occur with, also, the addition of the Khod/Kinzhal pods.

These two will give an edge to the SU-39, because then you will have less trouble acquiring targets. Less time wasted exposed to enemy fire while searching for that ADATS you seen there. You still will be overly exposed when firing any of your weapons, but you would be able to acquire your targets outside the range of the enemy fire.

Kinzhal addition is a must too

If the Khod/Kinzhal were to be, following my reasoning above, added, other problem arises: the lack of several specifications on the milimetric wave radar.

The amount of information other members of community already have gathered surely is enough for the Khod to be modeled:

Ralin’s Khod container research thread

Devs didn’t doubted the existence of the Khod on the bug report, but just decided to not add the thermal imager.

But that is not true for the Kinzhal:

And:

There is too much missing specifications of the Kinzhal radar. In this moment, only the Khod could be added. The lack of the ground radar could hurt the Su-39 performance.

Considering a RB 12.0-12.3 GRB, it’s certain that the the Su-39 will suffer full uptiers, facing F-16C, F-15 and JA39 Grippen; with the armament it already have it can’t be compared with the Su-25SM3, which have IR+IOG and Laser+IOG guided missiles with 40 kilometers of range and sits at a BR 12.7 GRB – even with the Khod thermal imager. The Kinzhal would make acquiring targets and guiding missiles even easier, only leaving the problem of being overly exposed to enemy fire when doing an air strike.

The problems I mentioned about it’s performance with it’s BR changing were my reasoning to why the Khod pod should be added, but those also are the same reasons why the Su-39 should get the Kinzhal.

But it would need much more info about it’s container and it’s specifications before anything. “Guessing” isn’t exactly a healthy practice for a game that tries to have historical accuracy. But if ever those informations get to see the light of the day, it would be marvelous. The Su-39 would be a pretty unique aircraft, and won’t have trouble acquiring any targets, specially if the hypothesis on the Khod/Kinzhal sharing the same container were to be proven right, and it would be able to chose on having good ground pounding power or good air power.

IGNORE THE FIRST POLL, IT IS BROKEN******************

Su-39 can’t get the Kinzhal in the moment, but it still needs it in the eventual BR changes caused by the addition of the R-77 and R-27ER1?
  • Yes, in a BR change it would needs it too.
  • No, it wouldn’t be needed.
0 voters

  • The Su-39 needs both Khod and Kinzhal containers when it’s BR get increased
  • The Su-39 only needs the Khod container
  • The Su-39 will perform well the way it already is
0 voters
2 Likes

No unless it gets added in the tech tree

1 Like

The Khod thermal pod is really needed. There was no USSR jet with thermals until unnecessary Su-25SM3 came. About A2A missiles, they will only increase it’s BR, so - no.

6 Likes

The poll in the middle of the post is broken

I 100% agree that the SU-39 needs Khod and R77s/R27s. USSR planes lack the identification abilities of other tech trees, unless you play the SU25SM3. Then you still lack the gimbal limits of a TGP, which Khod wouldn’t even have. Yet the F111F, A7K, JH7A, Harriers, etc all get TGPs at the same BRs that have far better targeting angles than Khod would.

The Khod report got a simple “there’s no plans to add Khod” on it’s bug report.

We all know why that is…

2 Likes

We’ve already got the SU-25SM3 for that, no other SU-25 variant could carry ARH missiles besides the SU-39 to my knowledge as well (and no, the SU-25TM never carried the Kopyo pod or any radar pod for that matter in order to use ARH missiles).

It doesn’t make any sense to restrict the SU-39 anyways, we’re getting Fox 3 capable premiums this update and a thermal targeting pod isn’t anything crazy.


Would I like to see the SU-39 receive the Khod/Kinzhal pod alongside the R-27s and RVV-AEs? Absolutely

But it’d move to 12.3 with both the R-27s and RVV-AEs however

1 Like

Yes to the thermal pod, big no to the ARH and SARH missiles. I have yet to see truly definitive proof it can be fired from the aircraft. Yes it can be mounted, yes it can theoretically be guided by the radar, yet u see no proof the platform of the Su-39 can fire and use the radar guided missiles.

I have yet to see truly definitive proof it can be fired from the aircraft - yet u see no proof the platform of the Su-39 can fire and use the radar guided missiles

While there isn’t any actual video of the SU-39 firing the R-27 and RVV-AE there is also no available video of the aircraft flying, it’s like claiming that the aircraft could never fly because there is no evidence to prove so.

Sources have been spammed to hell in forum threads and bug reports, all of them stating without contradiction that the SU-39 was capable of firing the R-27 and RVV-AE.

The SU-39 also received a FCS upgrade over the original SU-25TM in order to help with compatibility with the Kopyo radar pod named the SUO-39P. The only issue I’d say is that I’ve found some sources which state only the R-27R1 in them and not the ER1 variant which could be a issue with in-game implementation.

2 Likes

The discussion isn’t about if should or shouldn’t the Su-39 receive the radar guided missiles. The bug report is matter of fact: some point in future the Su-39 will receive them. It’s because it’s BR is going to increase that makes the Khod/Kinzhal pod needed.

1 Like

I mean the Khod targeting pod is quite literally in the files already, I don’t see why it couldn’t come into the game as it just feels like a waste of assets Gaijin paid for - there is a very high likelihood it will come into the game eventually but the question is when?

The Kopyo pod is also receiving a massive buff this update, could hint to the future possible addition of radar missiles like the R-27 and RVV-AE.

Hopefully Gaijin comes to sense that: in putting plans to add R-77 and R-27ER1 makes adding the Khod/Kinzhal pod a necessity for the Su-39 because of it’s BR increasing when it receives them.

It’s fixed now?

I don’t see why the issues are being intertwined? The missiles are separate from the thermal pod, and I think that the thermals could be added now without BR changes with no issue. America is getting thermal optics on a freaking stealth bomber at 10.0 (!!!)

ARH missiles already are coming this update to premium aircraft. These additions, if anything, would truly make this aircraft unique, like a premium should be.

It’s just the same poll as the one from the bottom, just worded slightly different now

They are related because when the Su-39 receives the R-77 and the R-27ER1 it’s BR will rise both in GRB and in ARB, as I explained in the caput. The Su-39 is primarly a strike aircraft, not a multirole fighter jet, so to keep it’s performance in GRB, The Khod/Kinzhal pod needs to be added with the A2A missiles.

The radar has weapons to assist at this time.
There’s no reason to bring Su-39 to 13.0 as you want.

Even adding just the R27ET would satisfy me.

Khod is just a given. It should have been on the plane from day 1.

Well, we can hope.

1 Like

Now it is “fixed”. I don’t believe the first time I make a serious topic this thing happened.

I don’t know what Gaijin plans for the Su-39, but increasing it’s GRB BR without giving at least the Khod container would be diabolic.