In a sim battle, a player told me that if I eject after launching missiles at an enemy, then this behavior violates TOS. In his words, this is different to the usual J-ing out from missiles, as “the enemy may be killed” in this way, and it counts as “griefing the enemy”.
I want to ask the game masters (for an official answer), is he right? I can’t find how one can “grief” the enemy with in-game features in TOS, like if that counts, will AF camping count as griefing? Will simply using a better vehicle count?
(I sent this to some game masters before but apparently they couldn’t see the PM so I decided to post here)
The 6th section “Unsporting conduct” on War Thunder Specific Rules (now outdated) doesn’t strictly mentions leaving your vehicle before someone’s obtain a kill. Never seen someone being reported for that either getting some disciplinary action about this subject. But 6.1.4 mentions anything that may turns the game unfair, I doubt leaving your vehicle is unfair, you’ll be unable to obtain any advantage because there’s none, you’re just not giving points to the enemy, in this case no one’s winning.
No they wont punish you lol its similar to bailing right as you get bombed which isnt against the rules. I have been informed by a game master about this.
Actually if my launched missiles hit the enemy after I eject, I can gain some score, so this can be considered unfair in some way. However as I mentioned in the question, there are many ways to make the game “unfair” only using in-game mechanics, hence it’s not clear whether this is bannable “unfair game” or not.
Why there’s no reply from game masters… Do they simply want to avoid this kind of gray area questions… But I only want to know if this is a real gray area gameplay or prohibited one.
Well, adding in now, I don’t think it’s forbidden per se, but as others pointed out, I really don’t understand why somebody would do this.
However, as with many things, if it becomes excessive and/or is used specifically to annoy other players, that “not forbidden” becomes “frowned upon” and “punished” real quick.
But the question remains: What would someone using such a “tactic” even gain from it?!?
You are dead, but may have killed an enemy that you would have killed also if you had stayed in your plane, but for what advantage?
The difference is that the enemy will have zero chance getting a kill (and reward) from the player. When an enemy try to intercept you in your bombing path and you know he is better than you, you will be frustrated and want to get him away from the path. One way is to deny his kill and finally he will go other routes to fight someone else. The recent posts in the forum shows that there exists other players who have the same mindset.
May I ask how excessive would you think for it to become punishable? And if this is punishable, will you punish the F-111A J-ing out denying kill? (The difference is F-111A can’t kill enemies) Is the guy who talked to me in game true that “being able to kill the enemy and J-ing out” makes a difference?
This would not be a a decision i would be involved in making and as such have no real say in how things like this are dealt with, what follows are PERSONAL opinions and NOT OFFICIAL interpretations of the rules:
I would personally say that this is absolutely against the spirit of fair play. It is using a mechanic in a way it is not intended to be used to deny the enemy a way to gain SL and RP.
I’m not entirely sure how the j-out mechanic works (if it takes tickets away from your team or not when used in sim), but then there are two options:
You are essentially exploiting a flaw in that mechanic (that it does not bleed tickets from your team) to gain an unfair advantage in the match.
But again, not my area to handle, these are my personal opinions and not official interpretations unless confirmed otherwise by someone who has say in the matter. Schindibee above likely has more authority on this than me.
Edit:
Yes it can, it can bring both guns and missiles (the missiles doesn’t even hinder the usage of other munitions), you not bringing those would be a personal choice.
The J-out and tickets mechanic is a in-game feature and not counted as having bug currently. Why would using an in-game feature count as a exploit? (Btw I guess it won’t cause deliberately losing, cuz the player only J out when there’s a missile coming so either way he is killed, and it actually help the team by annoying enemies or deny enemies tickets) Will airfield camping be considered “exploiting” the airfield mechanic?
Edit: How about the second reply in this post? Bailing out from ground vehicle to deny kill apparently doesn’t count as unintended use of game mechanic and allowed, or that user was wrong?
If game masters can’t give official answer, then who actually perform in-game ban? So that I can contact them and get a real official answer.
@crash2DenyUrKill It starts to look more and more like you are trying to find out how far you can bend the limit betwen allowed and not allowed, obviously to gain something that you consider an advantage over other players. This in itself could be considered “trying to use an ingame feature to exploit it”. Even your name displays so boldly.
Communicating a “Limit” is not something we will do, because this will only get people to offend and annoy juuuust the right amount to evade punishment. We had exactly those questions and demands when that infamous TK ban wave recently happened, where rules that are very cleary were discussed and challenged from all angles.
Also here, in this case: If it becomes a problem in the form of something that is used to intentionally gain an unfair advantage over and/or deliberately annoy fellow Players, there will be repercussions.
Just because a mechanic is in the game doesn’t make every use of that mechanic fair or within the rules. An example would be tank collisions, it exists as a mechanic but that doesn’t mean that continuously pushing friendlies is okay to do. Friendly fire in air is a mechanic but that doesn’t make it okay to deliberately and/or continuously destroy friendlies. There are likely other examples of in-game mechanics that can be used maliciously.
I sadly do not have an answer for you on this one. I haven’t even really given it any personal thoughts either.
Just to repeat: i have no authority in the matter.
I do not know who that user talked to, what was said and in what context so i can’t really give an answer.
But a personal opinion is that; if it isn’t already against the rules, it should be. If the sole purpose is to annoy the enemy and/or deny the enemy kills, it should go against the spirit of fair play (i personally think the J-out mechanic in general might need to be redesigned). But again, not my decision and i have no influence in the matter.
I do not know who handles cases of unsporting conduct (pushing, teamkilling, exploiting flaws, etc), those decisions are made above me and i do not have access to any information in those cases. Schindibee as a Senior might be able to answer but i’m not sure. We (normal Game Masters) are told very little (practically nothing) outside of what we need to know to deal with what we signed up to do; chat and -name bans.
Ok, let me stop asking about “limits”, but “allowed or disallowed” is important to me. TK is strictly prohibited in the game rule, so although (maybe) one or two TK won’t cause a ban, I won’t try to do any teamkill in game.
But kill denying is different. I’ve seen several guys in the forum who according have GM tell them that kill denying isn’t punishable (when they report others kill denying). However in game I hear something different and your answer is also different. Almost all kill denying are intended and of course its goal is to annoy the enemy, so why some of the GM tell them it’s allowed to do so?
There is the conduct of fair play and for me, denying a kill for a player, only to have this salty feeling “hah i wont get you the kill you might deserve, so I J-out” is in my (and by the looks of it for others too) opinion against the fair play conduct.
If you cant understand this then there is sadly no hope. I understand your perspective its frustrating to play Air Sim and only want to bomb some bases or destroying some AI targets and then there are some player who intercepts you all the time. Specially when you flying some heavy brick and theyre in something like a T-2 or some fighter.
BUT would you feel cool with it, when you flip the coin?
And this denying kills only make frustrated and extremly salty people. If you are that frustrated, hop in another lobby, thats a privilege for Air SIM Players. Bc J-out is indeed bleeding your teams tickets and the only thing you will achieve with that is 1. The Sim Air players will recognize who you are and will report you to death. 2. You might get banned bc it isnt clear to break the rule, but on the other hand it isnt allowed bc its not clearyfied. 3. You break the emmersion, bc you could dogfight (depends on your plane) the other player, but before it even started you decide to J-out.
This happens a lot in Air Sim. Below is a clip from one of my friends that happened just a few days ago, and according to him it is starting to become a once-a-game occurrence. Very annoying when you waste fuel and a missile only to have someone J out to not give you any rewards.
I only care about rules, not what called sportsmanship, because if a behavior is not banned you really cannot stop people from doing that. You can see players flying with open cockpit or AF camping often in sim. In my experience in air RB, when I see an enemy crash denying my kill, I just laugh and turn for next target. That guy may be another frustrated bomber who get chased by fighters all day.
