Jing out before you can be killed in a SPAA when you know you’re going to die is helping the team by denying enemy spawn tickets.
Also it is incredibly based.
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Define toxicity.
J-out is not against the rules.
Lets wait for necronomica for confirmation
Think it used to be in the code of conduct with griefing and whatnot but looks like not anymore
One is against the rules and one isn’t. Just because you don’t like dying to CAS (something that 90% of players don’t struggle with) doesn’t mean you can break the rules.
Going to need a citation for literally everything in this post.
@Casino_Knight @Pangolin_Fan @MotorolaCRO @Hudler @AK_Awful_Waffle-psn @Stray_BulletsCze
If a mechanic is used in a way it’s not intended to be used to gain an advantage over the enemy or “grief” them it can be considered unsportsmanlike conduct depending on the situation.
J-out for the sole purpose of denying an enemy a kill is indeed very much against the rules.
( TOS )
( Code of Conduct )
Edit (additional screenshots from the TOS):
end of edit.
This has also been stated before ( Is fire-and-eject illegal? ):
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You just highlighted a section which is in a paragraph specifically pertaining to being inactive/AFK, OR leading to a loss.
Jing out to avoid an otherwise unavoidable death is neither as you are not inactive and you are taking actions to avoid a loss by denying giving the enemy spawn tickets.
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Thanks for confirming that J-out is legal
Interesting argument.
Does that mean that we’re going to see enforcement against CAS players who intentionally crash during/after bombing a target or fire both hellfires from a drone and then immediately J out before they can be killed?
Because this has been a known tactic for years amongst aircraft and seems to only be making waves now because CAS is seeing their own exploit used against them.
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The entire premise is pathetically flimsy at best given the absurdly vague and reaching clauses that are trying to be cited.
Guess if the reaching reason being given is that its “in conflict with the spirit of the game”, then anyone Jing out when an AGM just happens to be going for them is doing it because they are intending to switch vehicle or leave the match.
Just so happens to be at the same time an AGM is going towards them, after all there is nothing saying you are required to sit there and wait for an enemy to kill you before you leave vehicle for another or to leave match.
Unless leaving the match is now illegal or changing vehicles.
“Can’t no one compel another man to engage in recreation.”
@Casino_Knight
Okay then, i could argue that but i won’t as it likely won’t lead anywhere.
Even removing that specific screenshot the other two still point to the fact that J-out for the purpose of denying the enemy a kill is against the rules.
Context, frequency and reason for the J-out are likely some of the things that will play a role there, in the same way that accidental teamkills won’t get you punished there will likely be some sort of way for them to judge if it’s intentionally griefing or not and if a punishment is due or not.
It’s one thing if it happens on occasion, its a different thing entirely if it’s used systematically (or used systematically but in a way where the player tries to hide it using other means).
Edit:
Added more screenshots from the TOS in my first response.
@Hudler
Huh?
J-out if used because your vehicle is stuck, because you are on a runway and want to change ordinance or any other legitimate use is of course not something that is punished.
J-out with the only goal being to deny an enemy a kill is against the rules and risk punishments.
@AK_Awful_Waffle-psn
Honestly, personally, i hope so.
It is in the end up to the Administration if they want to start enforcing it more than they already are.
Just look at the TK ban waves that weren’t as widespread or harsh before but certainly are now, they have even started stating in the “Fair Play” posts how many accounts have been banned for a week or longer each month for teamkilling. Something that wasn’t there before. I personally hope that when (not if) the TK issue is reduced they move on to things of the same nature of “J-out to deny kills” and start applying punishments in the same manner there.
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As long as it’s equally enforced I’m with you.
Even removing that specific screenshot the other two still point to the fact that J-out for the purpose of denying the enemy a kill is against the rules.
Oh no they don’t. Nowhere in either of those other two screenshots does it say that Jing out to avoid dying is against the rules. It has some extremely vague clauses that can be stretched to cover quite frankly anything someone tried to do.
Bombing people from orbit who can’t fight back? Not very fair for the guy on the ground, could say that is violating the spirit of fair play.
Camping in one spot and waiting for people to kill? Deliberately remaining inactive and potentially contributing to a loss by now playing the objective.
Cap rushing into J out to spawn a plane? Very unfair, never let yourself die to the enemy. Denied them a kill.
Jing out under any circumstances? Just contributed to your teams loss by reducing your teams tickets, took actions towards a loss therefore deliberately losing.
You can play this game all day and make almost anything fit the extremely ambiguous statements there.
Context, frequency and reason for the J-out are likely some of the things that will play a role there
Okay so to play the role, my reason for Jing out in any of these situations is to change vehicle or leave the game. Please highly specifically where in the ToS it states that I am contractually obligated to allow myself to die to the enemy before I change my vehicle or leave the game.
It’s one thing if it happens on occasion, its a different thing entirely if it’s used systematically (or used systematically but in a way where the player tries to hide it using other means).
Same as above, please quote where I or any other player is obligated to die to the enemy before they change vehicle/leave the match/leave vehicle in general.
And if you are using such absolute vagaries to issue bans then I certainly hope you will also be banning cap and fliers and anybody who Js out of any vehicle to spawn a plane or another vehicle or to leave or not respawn as they are denying the enemy kills.
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They don’t have to explicitly state it (I added more screenshots to my first message).
Yep, which is the whole point, if the rules were super clear and straight forward there would be SO MANY more users that would find loopholes and do just enough to be annoying but not cross the line. Having a gray area encourages the player to stay away from that sort of behaviour entirely or risk punishments.
If the mechanic is used WITH THE AIM OF denying an enemy a kill, that is not it’s intended use and goes against the spirit of fair play. If a mechanic is abused and used in a way it is not intended to be used it goes against the rules of 3.2.4.
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They don’t have to explicitly state it (I added more screenshot to my first message).
Yes I believe I already said that the clauses mean basically nothing and are intentionally left vague so they can be applied to almost any and all situations.
Frankly you may as well remove the entire ToS and replace it with “We will ban for anything we want” and it would be more accurate without the fake pretence of some actual rules.
If the mechanic is used WITH THE AIM OF denying an enemy a kill, that is not it’s intended use and goes against the spirit of fair play. If a mechanic is abused and used in a way it is not intended to be used it goes against the rules of 3.2.4.
But I’ve already said that I’m Jing out to leave the vehicle because I feel like it or I’m doing it to change vehicle or leave the game. Nowhere in the ToS does it specify that I am obligated to die to the enemy before doing any of these. I’m using the mechanic the way it was intended to be used, it is irrelevant whether or not an enemy missile is heading for me or not at this point.
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I j-out in “no hope situation” to not give a guy more spawn points, contributing to my team. It’s not much, but it can help outlast enemy team and give us a win.
Not a passive behaviour.
So thank you for confirming, that J-out is legal.
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Against the intended use of the mechanic thus against the 3.2.4 rule screenshotted above. Additionally could also fall under game rule 2 and 9 depending on circumstances (all three found in the TOS).
Please stop telling lies, it is not okay to use the mechanic in that way.
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Lying? What lying? Why are you assuming things? Is this a pettines or am i misinterpretting you?
Feel free to hmu in PM if you want
Not if that is the case every time (or a large majority of times) you do that, then it’s pretty clear what the intentions are.
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Crashing for a bomb kill is done to insure the kill, not to deny enemy kill credit
J’ing out after firing your drone’s missiles is done because they’re too slow to fly back to AF and rearm, not to deny enemy kill credit.
See the key difference between those two examples, and J’ing out with the express purpose of denying kill credit?