Use Naval AB aircraft spawning system for ground AB

[Tactical62]

[Should Ground AB use the same Aircraft spawn as Naval AB?]

• Yes!
• No (The current system is ok)
• No (I would like to suggest another change)

**Updated 4/2/2025

Greetings Arcade enjoyers, this suggestion was made for the implementation of a similar air event system from Naval AB into Ground AB, current system in ground AB is straightforward, get kills for air event points → spawn a fighter/striker/bomber aircraft if you have enough points, Naval AB has a more in depth system, you need to have enough spawn points to use aircraft, you can only use aircraft once your vessel is destroyed, and the cost goes up with every aircraft spawn, not only that but you can use your own aircraft (you still retain the option for a random aircraft if you choose so).

So why use this?
simply I find the air event system in Naval AB to be far better and offers more flexibility when it comes getting air support.

Here’s a list of what this could bring or change for the game mode:

-Well first off, this will allow you to use the aircraft YOU WANT from the nation your playing, not only that, this will also allow players who are more ground focused to contribute to their air tree research.

-Adds an additional game mode where you can play helicopters and research them, this way it won’t just be strictly planes or helicopters for the match.

-Balance out the number of planes up at a time in the match, SP cost means 1 kill and an assist wont give you a loaded strike plane, also you wouldn’t need to race the enemy to start an air event before they do. NOTE: I don’t mean how many planes for the whole match, just not 3-4 all out at once, AA aren’t able to respond to that many at the same time.

-Many players consider air events as free plane! which shouldn’t because this encourages players to slam their planes into the ground (some experienced players do this to mask dropped bombs to cheese the fuse timer), you hit the dirt? you pay the bill for that plane! (Suggested by @SaperPL)

-Adds an important role to light vehicles, no ground targets name/marker should be visible to aircraft regardless of type, However, if a light vehicle scouted the target it can be visible, this should contribute to the reward “Supporting Fire” for light vehicle scouting. (Suggested by @SaperPL)

-More importance for having SPAA or anti air on your team instead of being treated as makeshift IFVs.

-More importance for close air Protection, many air events usually go like this: you spawn a fighter to take out a bomber they see your name, then they go for your tank, why? your not MOVING you are essentially a free kill if you try to use a fighter.

Obviously adding something like this would require additional rules due to ground AB nature, some adjustments:

-This was already mentioned but ground units name and marker should not be visible to any aircraft unless scouted! (Suggested by @SaperPL)

-should only be limited to 2 air spawns, preferably 1 striker/bomber for CAS and 1 fighter for CAP.

-unlike RB, you should start with no spawn points, first spawn will have a regular cost, second will have a steeper cost, so like Tank → Air → Tank, enough points? Air, No? Tank again. out of tank spawn but have points for Air? last shot.

-Aircraft rearmament/repair needs to be done at an airfield, in air reload are simply to strong even in
Naval AB.

-The mode should still retain the 10sec bomb fuse. (Suggested by @SaperPL)

-Keep the warning when enemy brings out air support in the match.

-BR offset for aircraft is ground mode (pretty sure this was implemented somewhere but I can’t find it), example with a BR offset of -0.7 or +1.3 you can bring a 4.0 plane to 3.3 or up to 5.3 (should be limited to not grief by bringing low tier planes to higher matches, you would use a random if you have no aircraft slotted) (Suggested by @SaperPL)

-You should only spawn behind your teams side. (Suggested by @Jareel_Skaj)

-The small red diamond that’s used for MSL can be used for Bombs.

Again I apologize for not checking on the topic often, I will keep it updated, suggestions always welcome!

[SaperPL]

I submitted a similar suggestion but a bit more complex, but I guess you were first since my topic was taken down. I’ll just post it here then as a potential improvement to your suggestion:

Proposed Solution:

1. Aircraft spawns are handled the same way as in Naval Arcade Battles, through requirement of spending spawn points to spawn an aircraft. Some portion of spawn points is given to the player at the beginning of the match which is not enough to spawn into plane right away, but it affects the ability to spawn a plane second time in the same match - cost of spawning the plane is steep, so collecting it all again is hard.

2. There is a BR offset for aircraft to be spawned which is a balancing method - For example in BR 4.0 battle the offset of 0.7 BR would mean aircraft up to BR 3.3 could be spawned, or for offset of 1.3 BR aircraft up to BR 2.7 could be spawn. This is something that needs to be balanced by devs similarly to other BR balancing procedures. It still makes sense to have a 2.7 CAS like A-36 in BR 4.0 battle and it’ll still make sense to have 4.0 CAS in BR 5.3 battle. (It’s not about discussing specific BR values here, but explaining the proposed balancing method).

3. Forced bomb fuse delay mechanic should still remain in the mode, bomb whistle sound should be fixed and there should be a text warning like with artillery strike when there is a bomb being dropped nearby or when aircraft is strafing/diving on your vehicle.

4. Ground vehicle type markers are shown only for scouted vehicles until pilot can see the target in front from close range to identify the type of vehicle. The reason here is to make picking easy target and avoiding SPAAs harder for aircraft.

5. Aircraft do not have auto reload of ordnance in-air like in air battles, they need to fly over the airfield under specific low altitude to reload the ordnance. This way the planes need to loose altitude to around spawn altitude or even less, so they cannot keep circling high above the combat zone, and at the same time they don’t have to land so the whole setup is not penalising to new players that can’t land the aircraft. Aircraft repair still requires landing. Airfields are close to the front, but heavily protected against opposing team including warning similar to spawn camping warning.

[Blogaugis]

Bit late to the suggestion, but I think in the long term aircraft spawning and operation in naval battles have to be tweaked. I am positive that aircraft carriers (and submarines) will arrive eventually, and to, at least partially, address the scale issues caused by aircraft carrier, and the more numerous and capable AA armament on ships, I think aircraft will have to operate in squadrons (like in dynamic campaigns and mission editors), rather than lone planes.
The link to the discussion is here:

[Discussion] Improving Naval!

Naval is often the butt ends of jokes when it comes to the War Thunder player base, so I thought it might be interesting to open a thread up for discussion on what can be done about it to make it less alienated. So to get that started, I might as well express my view on the game mode and what it did right and wrong, as well as how to fix those issues if I can. I welcome the rest of the community to pitch in ideas and list their own issues they wish to be addressed! Lil’ History of My Time In Na…

But otherwise, this system would also be similar to the Ground (and currently Naval) Realistic Battles. So, I suppose this might be beneficial.

[Tactical62]

Hey everyone, sorry I didn’t respond silly that I create a topic and don’t follow up, so recently gaijin has implemented a change to Ground AB air strike having fighters be unable to see ground name tags, its a breath of fresh air and playing open tops or light tanks has become more viable, ofc some downside is they also can’t see friendly name tags o.O?

oh also SaperPL I agree with the points you said, especially having no nametags except if scouted (more reason to bring light tanks to the battle) and the BR offset, that would probably fix the A-10 ripping ww2 tanks a new one XD.

with that said, I hope to see more changes, mainly being able to bring out our own aircraft.

[SaperPL]

@Nassim62

Hey everyone, sorry I didn’t respond silly that I create a topic and don’t follow up, so recently gaijin has implemented a change to Ground AB air strike having fighters be unable to see ground name tags, its a breath of fresh air and playing open tops or light tanks has become more viable, ofc some downside is they also can’t see friendly name tags o.O?

Well, the problem of randomness in the bombing still remains and the one in bomber/strike aircraft can still see players on the spawn point. Denying fighters markers mostly works because now it’s really hard to see vehicles and I feel like some vehicles in camo matching terrain are getting culled out of visibility until you’re close enough and/or are facing them with your aircraft. With that said, it’s still a random mess whether you have chance to drop your ordnance or catch up to bomber, so naval system would be a lot better than this where you actually risk losing hard earned points for the planes.

@Nassim62

and the BR offset, that would probably fix the A-10 ripping ww2 tanks a new one XD.

Well, the problem of A-10 vs WW2 tanks is how the selection of aircraft in air mission is not BR-equal but randomised in range based on your lineup BR and not match BR. It means that if you’re uptiered, so for example you’re 5.7 and the match is 6.7 max, you can encounter a player in 7.7 plane while you get one in 4.7. At least that did happen from time to time where you’d get 4.7 bomber and be chased by 7.7 fighter jets or get 4.7 prop fighter to chase a 7.7 jet bomber.

First they should ensure that everyone gets a plane at the same BR in context of single air mission, but guess what - they are not going to do this exactly because that’s the point of air mission - to destabilise the match and increase the snowballing effect to finish the match faster and put people back in matchmaker.

[Tactical62]

Hey again, just noticed a new change, if you start a bomber/strike aircraft mission and the enemy doesn’t start any interceptors or fighters, it won’t allow for a friendly to escort you, did anyone see this change mentioned anywhere?

[SaperPL]

Yes, but it still doesn’t solve the problem of the whole thing being not fair for the player using the bomber - you can get 3 guys on your tail and noone to cover you. Having option to use your own plane until you’re shot down, but not spawn with enemies right at your back is fair way to handle this.

[Jareel_Skaj]

In naval mode spawns work completely differently than in ground AB - you spawn behind your own side. It’s similar to GRB spawns.

Play it one day. It’s a ton of fun.

[SaperPL]

Oh really? You didn’t notice that the whole point of this topic is that we want this system in ground AB as well? I was responding directly to last comment about the change in fighters not having markers anymore, not about the whole idea in this suggestion.

I generally think it is cool in naval, the problem is that by mixing together blue water and coastal ships, the dynamic now is that usually at the point you have your plane, most of the players using coastal vessels are already not in the match anymore, or they are now using the bluewater ships or already in planes which makes it so that now you just have to deal with big ships that have a lot of AAA, so every target is also having a hard to penetrate defense.

Rather than that, in ground it would make more sense that it’d be about finding the target (maybe for planes to see only markers for scouted vehicles?), or a good approach to a target if it’s between the buildings and there are AAAs around, but not like in naval where fight between plane with bombs and big vessel is really up to RNG on those AAA guns and not that much on skill.

[Tactical62]

Hello, say theoretically this gets implemented, what do you think the SP cost for an aircraft would be, should it be affected by payload/belts, should the cost double if you spawn a second? let me know what you think!

[Jareel_Skaj]

Same as Naval or GRB. So yes, it should be affected by loadout, though if I recall it correctly, belts don’t make a difference.
Either way - it shouldn’t be a whole new system. Just reuse what you got Gaijin, and give us an improved experience. :)

[SaperPL]

Reuse the existing naval obviously, at least at first unless more changes are required, but those would probably be about balance and not the system itself.

[Tactical62]

Gaijin is collecting ideas and suggestions for 2024 roadmap, if you want to see this suggestion make into the game be sure to check out the survey, you never know . . .

[Development] Collecting Your Ideas for the 2024 Roadmap - News - War Thunder

[Tactical62]

Well that was disappointing…

[Jareel_Skaj]

You mean, the fact that it didn’t make it to [Development][RoadMap] The War Thunder Roadmap for Spring to Summer 2024 - News - War Thunder?

AFAIK, the list isn’t 100% of all the stuff they want to add in this half of the year. And also… I still hope that this suggestion will be passed on by the moderators to the consideration of the dev team.

[Tactical62]

It’s in the third part of the roadmap, they want to grant a random reward (SL, score, or Air point) for flying to an exit?
it would help with players who keep crashing their planes into tanks since there would be an incentive.

[SaperPL]

@Jareel_Skaj

AFAIK, the list isn’t 100% of all the stuff they want to add in this half of the year.

The choice they made seems like they want to reduce the risk as much as possible, so fix it without redoing the game mode. We know where this is coming from because doing it properly would mean reshuffling the balance most likely, but still it’s not going to work.

@Nassim62

it would help with players who keep crashing their planes into tanks since there would be an incentive.

It definitely won’t help much. I’d rather score a kill that I have to score for the daily/season/event task rather than get some plane survival bonus. You get the bonus for surviving in a plane anyway, the only thing they are doing is that it’ll be a crate after the match, so you don’t know how much it gives you, and guess what - it won’t give you much too often, it’ll be the same as every other lootbox system.

[Jareel_Skaj]

@SaperPL

We know where this is coming from because doing it properly would mean reshuffling the balance most likely, but still it’s not going to work.

What rebalancing you have in mind?

[SaperPL]

Actual solution is only in letting players play their own planes, one way or another, so there’s penalty for death in-game, not economical penalty through SL.

But once you do this, then you have control of what type of plane you can pick, what ordnance and you’re more effective with your own plane.

It also means that you need to jump out of you first tank in order to use the plane, so the players that did score quickly points for a plane are not longer getting back to their fast killing tanks, because they will want to use planes.

It means for one that if there’s a BR offset for the planes against your lineup BR, still there must be a different balance in ground AB than air AB, because obviously some bomber or strike aircraft that gets easily taken down by multiple fighters, now in ground AB would be able to score a lot with just one bombing run if he’s the first one in the air.

There will also be some effect of which SPAAs are now effective deterrent against aircraft, because for now nobody cares about crashing into the ground, once they don’t want to get shot down, it’ll be a different story. Also for soft targets it’ll also be different because of the same thing - less people will be using rockets at point-blank range to score a kill or their plane cannons, which means lower effectiveness, which means some vehicles that were constantly targeted may get more survivable.

It also means that since air mission won’t be deciding its outcome just by spawn layout and whether you get tiny tim vs some crappy useless rockets you can’t aim, the game is less in control over how the planes can alter the outcome of the battle, less in control over not letting one team take a bombing run etc.

[Jareel_Skaj]

I feel like I still don’t understand you. Are you for this idea after all, or against it? You think it will make the Ground AB better than it is now, or worse?

Cause everything you said seems to strongly support what OP (@Nassim62) has suggested, and the points you seem to have against it, are actually just as applicable for Ground RB as they are here, so… they are effectively moot (as the point of this suggestion isn’t to fix all the modes, but rather to improve Ground Arcade)