Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II - An Appreciated SAM for the JGDSF: Part 2

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Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II - An Appreciated SAM for the JGDSF: Part 2

Hi and welcome to my 21th suggestion, which is about the Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II and one of a few modern japanese Vehicles I want to suggest, hope you like it. :popcorn:

This is a follow-up suggestion from the Type 81 mod.(C) Tan-SAM Kai and as you might notice when reading, we are searching for more information; if you want to help share sources and information in the JGSDF Discussion thread or here.

First of all:

  • This is a suggestion for a Vehicle we could see in game at some point in the Future , that doesn´t mean next Patch or somewhere in the near Future
  • Feel free to share more Information and / or correct me if something is wrong
  • Discuss respectfully, any aggressive kind or verbal abuse will be reported, the Forum rules also apply here
  • To be more specific, this suggestion refers to the JGSDF version of the Type 11 SAM on Type 73 chassis, the JASDF has an own version on a different platform and can likely not be operated as single vehicle system.

  • Key-Control-Unit (KCU)

Basic Background

The development was carried out from 1999 to 2002 at the Technology Research Headquarters, using the results of the “Research prototype of future short-range surface-to-air missiles” from 2005 to 2009. The development phase was called “Short-SAM revised II” (Tan-SAM Kai II), but in the 2011 government draft summary decision on the defense budget, the equipment designation was called “Type 11 Short-Range Surface-to-Air Guided Missile”.

The Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II Overall

It is a surface-to-air missile system that succeeds the short-range Type 81 surface-to-air missile.
This system consists of a vehicle-mounted fire control system and a launcher. The fire control system is equipped with an active phased array radar mounted on a truck. The launch vehicle is a quadruple rocket mounted on highly mobile vehicles identical to the Type 93 found in the game for the JASDF. The specification for the Air Self-Defense Force is partially different and is called “Kichiboku Uyouchi Taiku Uudodan” for basic air defense. In the meantime the JGSDF version is based on the Isuzu Type 73 truck, its mobility is good and reaches speeds of up to 90 km/h, powered by an Model 8PE1 V8 diesel with 286 hp at 2.300 rpm. The total combat weight of the launch-vehicle is roughly 14.2 tons.

JASDF Version & Firecontrol / Radar Truck

grafik

The improvement over the Type 81 is that the launch method has been changed to a canister launch method, improving maintainability and handling, and the performance improvement allows it to handle supersonic or small air-to-surface missiles and cruise missiles. Unlike the Type 81, which had two types of guidance, it has only one active radar homing method.
The Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II missile itself is equipped with an active radar seeker (ARH), which means the missile can track its target itself. The firing range against low-flying aircraft, drones and cruise missiles is about 15 km.
Like the Type 81 mod.(C), the JGSDF version of the launch vehicle is equipped with a tripod Key-Control-Unit, with which the launch system can be controlled without a fire control vehicle or command post (more in “Key-Control-Unit” spoiler). Additionally; there are pictures of Type 81 and Type 11 launcher vehicles with a kind of camera sight (e.g. the last one in this suggestion, such a camera is located under one of the missile tubes), nothing is known about these at the current time of our search, but this one seems to be mounted for training purposes.

Key-Control-Unit
  • Red marked Devices are the Key-Control-Units (KCU)
  • Blue marked is the Firecontrolsystem Truck

As we can see, not all targets are tracked by the FCS. The FCS Radar Truck is used when barely visible targets like Air-to-Surfrace Missiles (ASM), Cruise-Missiles (CM) have to be detected and shot down.
Its also in use against low flying targets like Helicopters. But as we can see on the official figure, a fighter jet is engaged by an Type 11 missile without command by the FCS, just with the KCU (marked in yellow).

The following verbatimly confirms that a JGSDF launcher vehicle with a KCU unit can be independently deployed and missiles fired.
Machine translated: “Capable of firing by launcher units using optical sights”
In addition, a KCU unit has an optical sight, as can be seen in the images already shown.
Since the Type 81 mod.(C) system also has such a KCU, it is also proven that both Tan-SAM Kai systems are independent of a separate vehicle with a fire control system.

Additional source with close high res photos of the KCU:
11式地対空誘導弾システム


Unfortunately, there is little information about the whole system itself, but from current research status, its possible that a Type 11 missile can be slaved to a target and fired using the Key-Control-Unit device; the missile’s ARH seeker should allow it to lock onto a target at certain distances and track once fired, ‘Maddog’ launches are commonly possible with modern ARH missiles, the Type 11 is very likely no exception given its development and service introduction timeline.
Incidentally, something like this is already possible with comparable SAM systems, such as the M1097 with SL-AMRAAM.
Disadvantage of the whole thing would be missing IFF, lack of search Radar and “only” four ready-to-launch missiles, when these are used up you have to reload in a capture point, whereby you can also introduce a spawn reload point for anti-aircraft defense, but that’s a topic for a separate suggestion.
As for now, nothing is known about the ARH seeker itself, other than that it may be based on the AAM-4 or AAM-4B, so any support with information is very welcome as mentioned above.

Peronal Thoughts on Type 81 mod.(C) and Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II

As someone who plays War Thunder for quite some time now with a lot of interest in the Japanese ground tech tree, I highly advocate for the addition of the Type 81 mod.(C) Tan-SAM Kai and Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II systems. These very capable surface-to-air missile systems offer significant potential to enhance gameplay diversity, expand the tech tree, and uphold historical accuracy.
A compelling reason to introduce the Type 81 mod.(C) and Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II lies in the current (hurting) lack of top-tier SAM options for Japan in-game. A well balanced and diverse tech tree is vital to ensure engaging gameplay experiences across various tiers and vehicles. By adding these systems at (example) Battle Ratings of GRB 10.0 and 12.0, Japanese players would gain access to advanced and efficient anti-aircraft defense capabilities, elevating their enjoyment and competitiveness in War Thunder.

The Type 81’s Launcher vehicle, equipped with IR fire-and-forget missiles, introduces a better and more effective version of the Type 93; which is fitted with short range MANPAD missiles and is btw, the current top anti-air in the Japanese ground tree, not the best and luckily not the worst. However, anything but competitive in the top tier, where the Pantsir is already up, with a range of 18km, no RWR pings and capability to shoot down incoming (guided-) ammunition.

Similarly, the Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II missile, featuring an active radar seeker and an average firing range, enhances Japan’s anti-air capabilities to compete at high-tier levels. Its performance improvement over the Type 81 mod.(C), particularly against modern threats such as high and fast flying Fighter-Bombers and Drones, reinforces Japan’s relevance in the game.
Furthermore, the the Key-Control-Unit makes both Tan-SAM systems a theoretically and technically possible, as well as legitimate options as future top tier anti-air.
While concerns may arise regarding the SAM systems’ effectiveness with the Key-Control-Unit; Gaijin’s recent past semi-acceptance of paper-designed vehicles (e.g. F-16AJ), which was literally served for balance, and exploration of technical possibilities instills hope for gives hope that even with these two really good top tier AA options for Japan, Gaijin realizes that its balance and not 100% technical and historical accuracy. Additionally, given the potential controversies surrounding sub-nation tech trees (e.g. South-Korea, Indonesia …), the inclusion of the Type 81 mod.(C) and Type 11 Tan-SAM in the established Japanese tech tree presents a pragmatic, compromising and legitimate choice in view of the circumstances and the information provided for both SAM systems, which have now turned out to be not necessary multi-vehicle systems.

In conclusion, the Type 81 mod.(C) and Type 11 Tan-SAM are great options for the Japanese ground TT. Their addition promises to enhance gameplay diversity and contribute to the continued expansion of Japanese vehicle options.

Previous Type 81 mod.(C) Tan-SAM Kai Suggestion

Thanks for your time, hope you liked it :salute:
[Will add more if there are some (more) important / declassified things]
[PM or comment if a Link or Picture isn´t working]

Sources:

Videos

11式短SAM動的展示@2016 - ニコニコ
https://twitter.com/kaminari_56_56/status/1137248389454651392?s=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGwUaIM_Jgk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbZEy4fgGbY

Links

https://warp.da.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/11623291/www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/agenda/meeting/materials/seisan/sonota/pdf/05/001.pdf
11式地対空誘導弾システム
81式地対空誘導弾発射装置
11式短距離地対空誘導弾とは何? わかりやすく解説 Weblio辞書
11式短距離地対空誘導弾 - 航空軍事用語辞典++

11式短距離地対空誘導弾|短SAM改2・11短SAM|陸上自衛隊装備品|陸自調査団
11Ž®’Z‹——£’n‘΋ó—U“±’e
Type 11 Short-Range Air Defense System | MilitaryToday.com
11式短距離地対空誘導弾システム
『下志津駐屯地創設63周年記念行事 その6』
下志津駐屯地創設59周年記念行事「つつじ祭り」:展示されていた高射特科の装備品その1 : 陸自調査団派遣隊ブログ
11式短距離地対空誘導弾/基地防空用地対空誘導弾
https://en.topwar.ru/184470-sovremennye-japonskie-zenitnye-raketnye-kompleksy.html
下志津駐屯地 創設61周年記念行事 つつじ祭り 2016 - ガス欠

12 Likes

+1, but give the co-driver a panzerfaust and the ability to lean out the window for self defense.

13 Likes

Yes LOL

Pfft GIFs | Tenor

1 Like

+1 maybe due to the low amount of missiles of only 4 maybe (if gaijin decides to add it) gaijin can let it reload another 4 afterwards?

3 Likes

Maaybe, personally I would add a small reloading zone (just like in test drives) where AA can relead one time each new spawn.
Basically; after firing all four missiles, you can reload in spawn. After these additional four missiles were also used, you have to reload in one of your own team captured points. Or you leave your current AA vehicle, use a backup coupon and spawn again with it, instead of pushing a capture point.

But I guess thats something for a dedicated Suggestion. ^^

9 Likes

I wish they would create like a 360-degree electro-optical sight like a CITV on the roof of the vehicle so it wouldn’t even need a tripod. Solid suggestion +1

2 Likes

Added new secondary Source; it confirms that the JGSDF version of the Type 11 Tan-SAM Kai II can be operated (and fired) independently by using a Key-Control-Unit with optical-sight.

At this point, the Type 11s addition to ge Japanese ground TT is entirely possible, as it doesn’t require multiple vehicles to function (as Gaijin claims with Type 81, though the mod.(C) has a very similar KCU).

1 Like

Is there any information about the specifications of the missile?

Except range, seeker type, size and its generally similar design with the its predecessor, no - I wasn’t able to find stuff like G-load etc yet. Maybe there is something on the old Forum that I‘ve missed but we will see.
For now its just about to have something to add to the TT and prove that both systems can be operated independently and don´t require Radar nor a second vehicle.

1 Like

From what I’ve been told by someone who has worked with systems that happen to be used for things like that, the most they could tell me without breaking NDA was that;

“If you fire the missile at something in the game, that missile will not lose track because of G-Load, the only way you could ditch it in game would be to distract it or notch it”

Not a G-Load at all but I imagine that number is highly secretive due to it still being in service from my understanding and we can’t just leak something like that out

1 Like

gaijin will probably add a 10g limit for bullshit reasons

1 Like

I’ve seen videos of this system with one of the missiles switched to an IR tracker pod, is there any information about it?

Not sure if an IR Camera or just a measuring device for testing, i doubt these can be guided via IR unlike the Type 81 which does have IR missiles. The only missile the Type 11 has is ARH. In WT we will basically just mad dog the missile with the help of the tracking system and let the missile use its own radar for final target acquisition.

3 Likes

i mean i now its just a targeting thing but idk if its like a new system or just a necessary complement for the tripod thing

This would be an excellent addition and round out Japans top tier lineup.

+1

3 Likes

There is a separate Tripod, but based on Zachlam Tager’s example, I don’t think this is important enough to prevent this vehicle from being implemented.

Looking at the top of Zachlam Tager’s cabin, the operator’s binoculars and joystick are fixed. It’s not like this in reality. This is enough to be considered a compromise for the game. On the other hand, there is no reason why that should not be allowed for Type 11.


Therefore, I think this vehicle can be implemented in this game. Just weld and attach the KCU tripod to this vehicle. Like Zachlam Tager, there is no need for the crew operating the KCU to be exposed. The only obstacle would be the specifications needed to implement it into the game. (G, speed, weight, etc, …)

6 Likes

Japan is in bad need of a top-tier SAM, this is a big +1

5 Likes

Thank you all for the Support. The Type 81 mod.(C) suggestion was passed to devs recently.

Hopefully Japan can finally get both Tan-SAM Kai in the future as new top tier anti-air systems.

But my work has just begun, I am planning more Suggestions for Japan.

9 Likes

I would say yes to this vehicle, but it really needs +4 extra missiles as reload option. Mabybe carried in a trailer like we have for Churchill Crocodile?

I have found an image of the Type 11 launcher set up on a flatbed trailer. Or rather, noticed it being mounted like that on an Image I had already seen, but not paid much attention to.

Spoiler

Type_11_SAM_launching_from_Niijima_Missile_test-launching_site

This could have multiple possible implementations in the game. The first and most obvious one (even if I didn’t see it at first and someone else pointed it out), is that it could be towed by the radar vehicle. This could add the radar into the vehicle and completely nullify any “but it needs multiple vehicles” arguments usually directed towards the Type 11.

Another implementation is made possible by this box mounted in front of the launcher.

Spoiler

Type_11_SAM_launching_from_Niijima_Missile_test-launching_site (1)

This box is the box that seems to connect to the KCU, likely housing the systems necessary to operate the launcher on its own. This is further reinforced by it being lacking on the JASDFs Type 11, which also lacks this functionality.

Spoiler

The Type 81s KCU is connected to the box via cable


JASDF Type 11 only has the missile mount, that is likely remotely operated from another vehicle or installation exclusively

This would allow the trailer to be towed by the launcher vehicle and also operate independantly. By adding this second launcher the missile count would be increased to 8, which is a viable amount for a top tier SAM.

The drawback to both ideas would of course be limited mobility due to the increased size of the combined truck and trailer.

If this was added to the launcher vehicle I would personally think it could be a researchable modification. A combination of the trailer and the radar vehicle could be a seperate, possibly foldered vehicle.

14 Likes