Good thing that at such a tier, you have an RWR and a capable RADAR set (As well as being able to look at your team and see where they are going), and thus won’t blunder into 5 people alone. Staying above and behind your team will see the enemy primarily engage them, leaving you to pick off the scraps.
Nope. Because in this situation, both you and he would probably have been spotted. Thus, both you and he are engaging in a fight with equal awareness.
By actually telling them, instead of just letting some magical marker do it.
Equal awareness, you mean having no team spotting? If you get near an enemy, his entire team can see you, but you can’t see them. By definition, that is unequal awareness.
Then not having team spotting shouldn’t be an issue for you.
Which is precisely why you wait for most if not all of the enemies to be spotted before you engage. But this is only relevant for a tier which you clearly aren’t playing at, so whatever.
Hardly. Team spotting lets me know, at a glance, where the enemies are largely positioned. If the enemies hyper-focus the side of the map I’m not on, I’ll know it and play aggressively, and vice versa.
This is not the point I was making regardless. You’re stuggling with being mobbed, and I’m saying that the RADAR and RWR, along with some basic positioning, is enough to resolve that issue. No need to change how the already fairly unreliable spotting system works.
That’s not what this is about.
Nope. I’m just tired of 1v1s being practically impossible without dragging an enemy 20 miles from the battlefield, and skill being made completely null in any 1v2+ scenario.
I agree, no changes need to be made. Team spotting should just be outright removed.
Removing team spotting would not change this. You’d still be easily able to see your teammates engaged in combat with something, even if that said something is not spotted. This, combined with making it harder to find targets by making most of the enemy team unspotted, means that people will be more likely to join fights already in progress than not.
It also wouldn’t change this as people will still navigate their way to the battle via RADAR at the tier you are talking about, meaning that if you’re out of position and/or leading the charge, players will still largely target you over your team.
Skill is not null in multi vs 1 engagements. I’ve won multiple fights when outnumbered, all it takes is to play to your strengths and your enemies weaknesses. Of course, this is dependant on having an aircraft that’s very strong for close range fighting like a Gripen, however the skill does still come in with less agile planes like F-4s by not putting yourself into a position where you have to fight multiple people at once.
Given that over 2/3rds of the people here disagree, maybe this isn’t the hill to die on.
If you are actively looking for teammates engaged in a df, sure you will find em. The thing is, that takes effort. 3rd parties don’t play to put in effort. It also requires looking at your teammate for an extended period of time to determine whether they really are dog fighting. If they aren’t dogfighting, then that means an extra 5-10 seconds bought for anyone who actually is dogfighting. You wouldn’t be able to just take a quick glance and see if there’s any vulnerable enemies.
Will people still 3rd party? Yes. It’s a part of the game, it’s a part of irl combat. The difference is 1v1 duels will become actually plausible, and if you want teammate assistance in a df, you will more likely need to actively communicate with your team.
Or they will use radar, or pay more attention to things like killfeed or destroyed bases. People already specifically try to ruin duels, removing team spotting would make it harder for em.
Unless your enemies are all just dumb lvl 10 F/A-18C Early noobs who press the cobra button and slam into the ground, skill really can’t do much in a 1v2+ against equal planes. All it takes is an average, or even below average player to realize how easy it is to take advantage of a 1v2.
I’ve also killed toptier tanks with M22s, and won a toptier ARB matche in a B-29A as the last guy alive (all three enemies crashed trying to rearm). Silly stuff happens from time to time, it doesn’t mean we should design the game around 1/100 chance things happening.
Funny thing is, if someone like Tiger_Tank_1 were to disagree with my post, that poll would flip around in a heartbeat. That exact thing actually happened not too long ago. I made a post about an issue, Tiger_Tank_1 made a post claiming the exact opposite view on that issue. People disagreed with both posts. And when I say that, I mean individuals would go to both posts, and claim they disagree.
Though to be fair, it was primarily the exact same forums trolls you’d expect. People like Stockholm and hudler.
That’s not remotely relevant when you’re denying those players any other, easier sources of information as to where enemies are.
Where else are they going to go? Out into open space, where there may or may not be enemies? Or towards the one area where they know enemies are, and are likely going to go.
Low skill players will take easy, obvious kills when presented, hence why so many of them instantly dive on the first airspawning base bomber they see, rather than maintaining energy for the more dangerous planes.
They don’t try to “ruin duels”, they go for kills. And ganking a distracted enemy who’s probably low on energy is as free a kill as they’re likely to find.
Removing team spotting would not affect these sorts of players, as they’d still look for friendlies who are already engaged with enemies, which would be very apparent from a glance. Just look for friendies who are currently taking evasive manuevers. Or firing missiles, as the case may be.
And a lot of players are that unskilled. You’re right, if equally matched, being outnumbered is not something that’s easily countered. But a lot of players, especially at this tier, have no idea how to dogfight. They will both turn into the same direction rather than staggering, meaning you can dodge both of them at once. Deltas will stick the fight past the one circle rather than extending, meaning you can bleed them of speed.
Simply put, most players won’t play any differently when they outnumber an enemy, and that makes it easy to counter.
I can think of multiple times in the past few weeks when that’s happened.
I did it all the time in my MiG-15, since you can energy trap an effectively infinite number of people at once safely.
I constantly got into stupidly outnumbered fights and won in the Yak-23, due to it’s absurd flight performance.
I managed to outbrawl groups of people on occasion with the Gripen A, due to it’s ability to slip into and out of notches easily and absolutely crush overconfident missile trucks at the BR.
I bring those up in particular because of the planes I’ve played recently, those are the ones where I’m confident in my ability to win a 2/3 vs 1, rather than making the smart play and extending away before I get mobbed.
A reminder, if you commit to a fight and die because you got mobbed, that’s you making a mistake. You overcommited into a fight that wasn’t safe to commit to, and got punished for it. You should instead just extend away from fights in the early game, or if you know there are multiple enemies around that you can’t account for. Or just pull off early and avoid the area entirely, instead circling back and using friendlies to break up the enemy formation and find openings.
Why even put up a poll if you’re just going to ignore the outcome?
What are they gonna do? Exactly what planes do irl. Patrol the area.
And removing team spotting will make that harder for em.
tomato tomato, it’s the same thing. Personally i’d prefer an objective based game mode where A2A kills are secondary, but we gotta work with what we have : /
It would make it more difficult for them, and buy the extra 10 seconds that could give the duel a winners. Another pro is, these very same low-skill players will be dying earlier in the match.
And such engaging gameplay is sure to capture the attention of these low skilled players?
Yeah, no. They’ll keep going for the kills they can get, only they’d be even more reliant on third partying.
Otherwise, they’ll blunder into an unfair fight of their own, die immediately, and give up entirely.
This is not a pro if you want 1v1s. The quicker one team loses players, the more lopsided the game gets, the more third partying happens as people scramble to get kills, the more hopeless it gets for the few remaining players left on that team.
If you want 1v1s, then you should want that initial confrontation to be expanded, to give players time to engage their opposing number before other people (Who have already won their fights) intervene.
Removing team spotting does not accomplish this.
Then ask for Air RB EC, not this.
Rare plausible take from you, I like the idea itself, but it needs tons of polishing, which can compensate for the problem. Maybe nerfing team spotting instead of total removal would be easier?
I disagree about the current ‘just remove team spotting’ and pressed no on the poll.
Just for clarification, no, not because I dislike you personally. Because your take wasn’t golden enough to be agreeable.
I cheer your journey to improve the idea.
You called me, so I am your man. :/
Just saying, name-calling is a violation of the forum guidelines, mate.
I am wondering why you mentioned me as an example of a troll in the topic when I wasn’t here at all.
I don’t think so.
People disagree with you about this idea because they disagree with your idea, not because you are a troll.
If you made a stronger case with well-constructed supports and convinced others instead of stabbing dissenters, you probably had more people agree with your poll.
And as @Aegis270 said, why even you put up a poll if you are just going to ignore the outcome?
This part is a bit more complicated.
Tiger_Tank_1 is well known in the community for making bad takes, but if we read his take deeply,
we can see ‘why he made that awful take’. The reason for his complaint itself is sometimes hit the spot or plausible. The problem with his take is that he suggests the worst option as a solution when he concludes.
For example
“Stock modifications are awful as hell” ← This is a fair point
“So, we need to make base bombing easier” ← This is what Tiger_Tank_1 suggests as a solution, which isn’t fair point. there would be lot better solutions than this.
So, people can disagree about both sides if both of you and Tiger_Tank_1 suggested a bad solution.
This isn’t a contradiction, I guess.
Easy Example
Radical Meat Lover: “We need to remove plant farms with no hesitation and need to build animal farms in those places since plants are not as tasty as meat.”
Radical Vegan: “We need to remove animal farms with no hesitation, and need to build plant farms in those places since eating meat is bad for those poor animals”
Both of them are on opposite sides, just like how you and Tiger_Tank_1 were.
But both suggested the same awful solution, so others probably disagree with both.
If you want to remove team spotting from ARB, you need to convince others why it is needed to removed, not stabbing others with insults or name-calling.
i agree with you on this but they should also implement an organic way to inform your team of enemies (not text chat)
like a keybind that would spot the enemy you have selected as a target and name it something like “relay enemy location”
i think this would eliminate the issue of zombers and such passively spotting a sneaky flank
This feature is already implemented, called quick radio message. Pressing 3 buttons should be organic enough.
sure but it doesn’t act like i suggested
You get a voice message and a marker on mini map plus blinking marker on radar hud if it is in range, plus a textmessage with name and plane. What more you want?
nvm i misunderstood what you said
that radio menu should suffice then
Tbf, I feel that’s just spotting in general.
Been playing a lot of Il2 recently over Warthunder due to there being a fun community event (Rhineland campaign, Apollo).
Biggest difference I found is…
Warthunder air sim: Your friendlies have a blue marker at around 0.8 km.
Il2: Great battles - no blue marker.
Warthunder air RB - Enemies have a red marker.
Result?
Air RB we all know has tons of crazy furballs.
Air SB ALSO has furballs develop and it’s quite easy to fly above said furballs to pick off enemies because you get IFF confirmed from 0.8 km out so no risk of friendly fire so furballs aren’t that dangerous.
Il-2? If I find myself in a furball I just… run away because even with radio comms I have no idea who is who. Much more consistent is to try and keep a strict formation with your friendlies so you minimize risk of friendly fire.
Who do you dive on? You won’t really know until you’re like 400 meters away.
And even up close it’s hard to tell (Is the guy near the bottom left friend or foe?)!
Im bumping this up, because I despise team spotting
It just punishes people who actually keep game sense and awareness to predict enemy positions on the map by making easy for their teamates to steal their kills or ruin surprise attacks (last one happens to me a lot) or worst case scenario, the enemy team slowly creeps up on you because you didn’t just kill the enemy with 1 blow or not even that, ended in 1 blow but now +2 people are after you.
Raise the skill floor just that little bit and allow for these new players do develop such important skill way earlier.
Make a looking at the killfeed or map an important skill, even more so with looking at the leaderboard.
Enemy with a lot of AI kills? stick to 1km alt and stand between the frontline and the enemy runway, if the killfeed shows a player killing AI, fly there and engage it.
Enemy with +1 ton of base bombing? camp bases, specially those with low health. Or even camp the airfield to catch them when trying to land after a run.
Lots of kills? Climb a lot and check “battle chat” (idk what it is called) to know the exact model or atleast airframe of your rival.
Teamate flying in weird patterns and not communicating? probably chased by an enemy (you can still 3rd party, but you need to be a lot more aware to see the opportunities)
at the start of a battle you can look at the runways and see where to expect at least a portion of the enemy team.
Commands like “attack X!” or “Attacking X!” would still work, but would simply place a fixed marker on the enemy’s position, since the exact model of aircraft will still be comunicated and maybe you can add an altitude bit as well, telling you if your ally wants you to simply clean it up (enemy below them) or try to clear their mind a bit (enemy above them).
Also cases like where you want to say that the enemy is at a runway, ARB players somehow understand just fine that “attention to the map!” above a runway means “dude on runway”, no matter how new they are.
Weird phenomenon just kind of there.
Bombers would be helped by this, no more being doxxed because an enemy light bomber flew near you. (if you don’t flank with a bomber you will still be killed, don’t be a dunce.)
Strike aircraft would love it too, they can choose to ticket bleed with a lot less worries behind their backs and even plan better ambushes.
Planes that find themselves in poor energy states will also have it easier, it is harder to see a plane flying below you without team spotting
Surprise attacks would be easier, since info is a lot more limited, but maybe that will slowly make a step back as players start to scan their surroundings a lot more
I’d also like to retract on this, you can still spot enemies just fine (4km at worse and 9km at ace crew I believe? and very dependant on your relative positions to an enemy, since as I said planes flying below you are spotted waay later than othe planes).
You just can’t depend on every ally being a flying AWACS.
Also it is just unreliable, no matter if the enemy is only 2km away from you, you can’t lock the command on them, same if they are actually spotted, dropping this command on a red name YOU spotted all by yourself won’t say a thing.
Right now ARB just rewards good aim, game sense and basic strategy are all thrown out of the window if you are handed the position of everyone and the battle is decided by which furball survives the most amount of time.
No wonder people say they meet a lot of dumb pilots in ARB, they are thrown into combat without actually knowing basic prediction and are rewarded by simply following a “leader” and stepping on each other faces for a, drum roll, a strike plane which can barely fly above sea level.
I think we need to keep team spotting, we should keep markers, but significantly reduce the maximum detection range for those two things. Here is what I’d propose:
[Suggestion] Active Scouting Mechanic and Spotting Revamp for Air Battles
Introduction: Air RB currently has two visibility-related problems that undermine tactical depth. First, visual markers appear at unrealistic distances regardless of altitude, speed, or terrain: a fighter hugging a valley is just as visible as one silhouetted against the sky at 5,000 meters. Second, there is no meaningful reconnaissance mechanic: a spotted contact is instantly shared as a full 3D marker for the entire team, removing all incentive for dedicated scouting.
This suggestion addresses both issues in two parts: a visual marker overhaul (passive) and a new active scouting mechanic rewarded by the economy system.
All numerical values below are indicative and should be validated through live testing, ideally during a dedicated weekend event.
PART 1: VISUAL MARKER OVERHAUL
1.1 Detection Range by Rank
Standard on-screen markers (3D nameplates) and minimap markers currently appear at the same distance regardless of aircraft performance. The following ranges, scaled by Rank, would better reflect the visual and electronic capabilities of each era.
On-screen markers (3D nameplates):
| Rank | Maximum Detection Range |
|---|---|
| I – IV | 3 km |
| V – VI | 6 km |
| VII+ | 12 km |
Minimap / tactical map markers:
| Rank | Maximum Detection Range |
|---|---|
| I – IV | 5 km |
| V – VI | 10 km |
| VII+ | 20 km |
1.2 Terrain Masking and Look-Down Nerf
The current terrain masking system exists but is inconsistent and difficult to predict. The goal here is not to introduce a new mechanic, but to make the existing one stable and readable: when an aircraft is flying low against the ground, through valleys, or masked by ridgelines, its on-screen nameplate detection range should be cut significantly and behave predictably.
| Rank | Maximum Detection Range (low-altitude / masked) |
|---|---|
| I – IV | 1.5 km |
| V – VI | 3 km |
| VII+ | 6 km |
Tactical impact: A ground attacker or tactical bomber flying at low altitude becomes genuinely difficult to spot from above, enabling surprise strikes on rear infrastructure or ground columns. This is a role currently made irrelevant by the flat detection system.
1.3 Ally Contact Propagation
Currently, if an allied aircraft is in visual contact with an enemy at 30+ km, the enemy’s full 3D marker is shared with the entire team regardless of distance. This removes all information asymmetry from the game.
Proposed change: A spotted contact should only appear as a minimap/tactical map icon for teammates outside its own direct detection range. The 3D on-screen nameplate should only appear for players within the standard detection ranges defined in 1.1. Teammates further away see a map dot, not a floating red label in the sky.
PART 2: ACTIVE SCOUTING MECHANIC
2.1 How It Works
All aircraft have access to the active scouting mechanic via a dedicated keybind. The interaction is deliberately simple:
Fixed structures (airfields, factories, depots) cannot be scouted via this mechanic. They must be overflown within visual range to appear on the team’s map, rewarding deliberate reconnaissance flights into enemy territory.
2.2 Identification Range by Rank
The nature of the scouted icon depends on the distance between the scouting aircraft and the target at the moment of lock:
| Rank | Identified (full color icon) | Unidentified (neutral icon) |
|---|---|---|
| I – II | < 7 km | > 7 km |
| III – V | < 15 km | > 15 km |
Beyond Rank VI, airborne radars begin to fill this role naturally. Rather than extending the scouting cone range at high BR, the logical next step would be to relay what the aircraft’s onboard radar detects directly onto the tactical map and into team chat, leveraging existing systems rather than adding new ones. This is flagged here as a natural extension of the same philosophy, for a separate discussion.
2.3 Specialization Bonuses and Dedicated Reconnaissance Aircraft
A tiered scouting system naturally opens the door to specialization bonuses for aircraft whose historical role was observation and reconnaissance:
The exact range bonuses for each category are left deliberately open here. This is precisely the kind of parameter that requires community debate and live testing before any values can be proposed seriously. The goal of this section is to signal that the mechanic has this potential, not to define it prematurely.
2.4 Economy Rewards
To make scouting a genuinely rewarding activity rather than a side mechanic players ignore:
Conclusion: These two changes work independently. The visual marker overhaul can stand alone without the active scouting mechanic, and vice versa. Together, they restore meaningful information asymmetry to Air RB and give dedicated reconnaissance aircraft a tactical identity they currently lack entirely.
A note on compatibility: It should be said clearly that both mechanics would likely be counterproductive in standard Air RB as it currently exists. The 5-minute fur-ball format simply does not provide the time or space for reconnaissance to be meaningful. These suggestions are primarily intended for longer, objective-based formats such as a reworked Air RB EC, or a Nuclear Thunder-style mode adapted for propeller aircraft. As for the existing Sim EC mode, Part 1 (visual marker overhaul) is largely redundant given the absence of on-screen markers, but the active scouting mechanic of Part 2 is directly applicable and worth considering in that context.
As stated above, all ranges and timings are indicative starting points. A weekend test event would be the appropriate venue to collect real data and adjust accordingly.
What do you think?
You sure about the 3km cap on props?
I’d say +4km is the “safe distance”, or basically the separation bubble boom and zoomers use
I like the scout mechanic tho
Honestly, this is difficult to assess, it’d need proper testing, this is the beginning of an idea. I believe the overall idea would be very beneficial to the game.
4km maximum marker spotting (props), and no shared markers would be incredible for this era of planes.
If I understand your point about the distance, you are worried that we would not have enough time to react to boom and zoom threats with 3km, compared to 4km ?