Great, so now we’ll have fast airspawners like the Wyverns, SK-60s and F-84s showing up behind you randomly on climbout, and the only way you can counter them is to be scanning in every direction like an owl on meth during the entire climb into the game.
Not to mention the fun times that will result from attempting to capilize on an oppertunity you see, only to find out there was a tiny black speck to your high right that you missed, and now you’ve given them the ability to kill you.
Ambushes may be a real tactic IRL, but I’m sure if you ask any pilot who’s experienced one, the last thing they’d say is that they were fun or fair. Whereas this is a game, and it should be both.
Rather than having to spend the entire climbout in constant, dull, and tedious diligence, maybe you should learn how to outfly people so as not to require ganking unsuspecting players?
If you play the game properly, it won’t matter if the enemy knows where you are once you’re close, because you’ll be in a position where you have advantages over anyone who’d want to come and fight you.
Not to mention, if you position properly, you can still ambush players even with team spotting. Not everyone constantly checks their minimap, so it’s entirely possible to slip in behind a few planes and take them out without them realizing you’re there. Team spotting doesn’t make this impossible, it just A) Makes it require more careful positioning to avoid blundering into their line of sight on the way in and B) Doesn’t punish people who are aware enough to check their minimaps.
This isnt about flanking. You were the first to mention that. This is about getting getting jumped by five guys who i never saw, and who never saw me, because i got within 5 miles of an enemy who died before he even spotted me.
So, to be clear, this is about you failing to position properly to such an absurd extent that you try to engage someone who’s already dead or dying, and leave yourself in a compromised position against unspotted enemies planes who you assume don’t exist until they’re spotted?
Because in this situation, this change wouldn’t result in anything. The enemy team would still watch one of their own die, gaining from that the knowledge that something has probably just burned it’s energy to engage it, and many would dive on in to check it out.
When the real way to avoid that situation is to just not to overcommit to the first guy you see. Instead, stay at a high energy state, keeping a reasonable distance from where enemy planes are, until you’ve seen that most/all of them are not in a position to interfere if you engage an isolated or otherwise compromised enemy.
Not if you position appropriately. I get them all the time when I’m fighting at high altitude. Most people are content to either lawnmow, or all jump on the first person they see lawnmowing. It’s easy enough to just sit at high altitude and watch the enemy team split up, then jump an isolated enemy.
This tactic holds true all the way up to the tiers where supersonics get involved, since they’ll boom and zoom you from across the map and never actually fight if they’re smart.
But that’s all besides the point. If you want more 1v1s, this is not the way to get them. After all, even if people can’t see the particular plane being spotted, they can see their ally in a dogfight with something, and they’ll want to help. In fact, given that most planes won’t be spotted until they engage, and thus positioning is harder, it makes it more likely for dogpiles to happen.
No, if you want more 1v1s, you need a lower density of aircraft overall. Not just smaller team sizes, but a gamemode that incentivises them to split up somewhat. One that has multiple different objectives all across the map. Preferably also one that has respawns, thus encouraging more aggressive play and making it easier to maintain a lower player count for longer without the game becoming lopsided.
How else am I gonna tell my team “look, an enemy heavy tank right here!”? No one listens to map pings, so it’s pretty much the only communication you have and it works fine since there’s no voice chat for communication. So yeah, I see no reason for it to be removed.
Good thing that at such a tier, you have an RWR and a capable RADAR set (As well as being able to look at your team and see where they are going), and thus won’t blunder into 5 people alone. Staying above and behind your team will see the enemy primarily engage them, leaving you to pick off the scraps.
Nope. Because in this situation, both you and he would probably have been spotted. Thus, both you and he are engaging in a fight with equal awareness.
By actually telling them, instead of just letting some magical marker do it.
Equal awareness, you mean having no team spotting? If you get near an enemy, his entire team can see you, but you can’t see them. By definition, that is unequal awareness.
Then not having team spotting shouldn’t be an issue for you.
Which is precisely why you wait for most if not all of the enemies to be spotted before you engage. But this is only relevant for a tier which you clearly aren’t playing at, so whatever.
Hardly. Team spotting lets me know, at a glance, where the enemies are largely positioned. If the enemies hyper-focus the side of the map I’m not on, I’ll know it and play aggressively, and vice versa.
This is not the point I was making regardless. You’re stuggling with being mobbed, and I’m saying that the RADAR and RWR, along with some basic positioning, is enough to resolve that issue. No need to change how the already fairly unreliable spotting system works.
Nope. I’m just tired of 1v1s being practically impossible without dragging an enemy 20 miles from the battlefield, and skill being made completely null in any 1v2+ scenario.
I agree, no changes need to be made. Team spotting should just be outright removed.
Removing team spotting would not change this. You’d still be easily able to see your teammates engaged in combat with something, even if that said something is not spotted. This, combined with making it harder to find targets by making most of the enemy team unspotted, means that people will be more likely to join fights already in progress than not.
It also wouldn’t change this as people will still navigate their way to the battle via RADAR at the tier you are talking about, meaning that if you’re out of position and/or leading the charge, players will still largely target you over your team.
Skill is not null in multi vs 1 engagements. I’ve won multiple fights when outnumbered, all it takes is to play to your strengths and your enemies weaknesses. Of course, this is dependant on having an aircraft that’s very strong for close range fighting like a Gripen, however the skill does still come in with less agile planes like F-4s by not putting yourself into a position where you have to fight multiple people at once.
Given that over 2/3rds of the people here disagree, maybe this isn’t the hill to die on.
If you are actively looking for teammates engaged in a df, sure you will find em. The thing is, that takes effort. 3rd parties don’t play to put in effort. It also requires looking at your teammate for an extended period of time to determine whether they really are dog fighting. If they aren’t dogfighting, then that means an extra 5-10 seconds bought for anyone who actually is dogfighting. You wouldn’t be able to just take a quick glance and see if there’s any vulnerable enemies.
Will people still 3rd party? Yes. It’s a part of the game, it’s a part of irl combat. The difference is 1v1 duels will become actually plausible, and if you want teammate assistance in a df, you will more likely need to actively communicate with your team.
Or they will use radar, or pay more attention to things like killfeed or destroyed bases. People already specifically try to ruin duels, removing team spotting would make it harder for em.
Unless your enemies are all just dumb lvl 10 F/A-18C Early noobs who press the cobra button and slam into the ground, skill really can’t do much in a 1v2+ against equal planes. All it takes is an average, or even below average player to realize how easy it is to take advantage of a 1v2.
I’ve also killed toptier tanks with M22s, and won a toptier ARB matche in a B-29A as the last guy alive (all three enemies crashed trying to rearm). Silly stuff happens from time to time, it doesn’t mean we should design the game around 1/100 chance things happening.
Spoiler
Funny thing is, if someone like Tiger_Tank_1 were to disagree with my post, that poll would flip around in a heartbeat. That exact thing actually happened not too long ago. I made a post about an issue, Tiger_Tank_1 made a post claiming the exact opposite view on that issue. People disagreed with both posts. And when I say that, I mean individuals would go to both posts, and claim they disagree.
Though to be fair, it was primarily the exact same forums trolls you’d expect. People like Stockholm and hudler.
That’s not remotely relevant when you’re denying those players any other, easier sources of information as to where enemies are.
Where else are they going to go? Out into open space, where there may or may not be enemies? Or towards the one area where they know enemies are, and are likely going to go.
Low skill players will take easy, obvious kills when presented, hence why so many of them instantly dive on the first airspawning base bomber they see, rather than maintaining energy for the more dangerous planes.
They don’t try to “ruin duels”, they go for kills. And ganking a distracted enemy who’s probably low on energy is as free a kill as they’re likely to find.
Removing team spotting would not affect these sorts of players, as they’d still look for friendlies who are already engaged with enemies, which would be very apparent from a glance. Just look for friendies who are currently taking evasive manuevers. Or firing missiles, as the case may be.
And a lot of players are that unskilled. You’re right, if equally matched, being outnumbered is not something that’s easily countered. But a lot of players, especially at this tier, have no idea how to dogfight. They will both turn into the same direction rather than staggering, meaning you can dodge both of them at once. Deltas will stick the fight past the one circle rather than extending, meaning you can bleed them of speed.
Simply put, most players won’t play any differently when they outnumber an enemy, and that makes it easy to counter.
I can think of multiple times in the past few weeks when that’s happened.
I did it all the time in my MiG-15, since you can energy trap an effectively infinite number of people at once safely.
I constantly got into stupidly outnumbered fights and won in the Yak-23, due to it’s absurd flight performance.
I managed to outbrawl groups of people on occasion with the Gripen A, due to it’s ability to slip into and out of notches easily and absolutely crush overconfident missile trucks at the BR.
I bring those up in particular because of the planes I’ve played recently, those are the ones where I’m confident in my ability to win a 2/3 vs 1, rather than making the smart play and extending away before I get mobbed.
A reminder, if you commit to a fight and die because you got mobbed, that’s you making a mistake. You overcommited into a fight that wasn’t safe to commit to, and got punished for it. You should instead just extend away from fights in the early game, or if you know there are multiple enemies around that you can’t account for. Or just pull off early and avoid the area entirely, instead circling back and using friendlies to break up the enemy formation and find openings.
Why even put up a poll if you’re just going to ignore the outcome?
What are they gonna do? Exactly what planes do irl. Patrol the area.
And removing team spotting will make that harder for em.
tomato tomato, it’s the same thing. Personally i’d prefer an objective based game mode where A2A kills are secondary, but we gotta work with what we have : /
It would make it more difficult for them, and buy the extra 10 seconds that could give the duel a winners. Another pro is, these very same low-skill players will be dying earlier in the match.
And such engaging gameplay is sure to capture the attention of these low skilled players?
Yeah, no. They’ll keep going for the kills they can get, only they’d be even more reliant on third partying.
Otherwise, they’ll blunder into an unfair fight of their own, die immediately, and give up entirely.
This is not a pro if you want 1v1s. The quicker one team loses players, the more lopsided the game gets, the more third partying happens as people scramble to get kills, the more hopeless it gets for the few remaining players left on that team.
If you want 1v1s, then you should want that initial confrontation to be expanded, to give players time to engage their opposing number before other people (Who have already won their fights) intervene.