Got your point from the enemy perspective - i was aiming at things like “there is no enemy within gun range” or say “3 km”: it would prevent intentional team kills.
I see a hell of team kills based on griefing (Bombers and stuff like Wyverns) in prop BRs every week whilst running to bases…
So then people can kill steal without getting revenge killed :) Nah man, playing with how friendly fire works shouldn’t be on the table in this discussion imo. Rather focus on the reasons why TK happens in the first place
There is per se no such thing as kill steal: You get the kill, or not.
Sure, this mechanic or how it works may be flawed and has room for improvement (and I think this is worked on, no?), but it really doesn’t allow for retaliatory TK.
What’s worse: having a kill denied, or getting killed by a “friend”?
I don’t think anything else should be done so long as Gaijin allows " FailSquads " into matches.
Winning at high/top tier air/ground is hard enough. When squads for example in ARB show up on my team with only 1 BR-relative aircraft and the rest of the squad is 2/3/4/5+ BRs outside of the actual matchmaking? TeamKilling the entire squad is justified. They are purposefully sabotaging and griefing teams.
Although i understand your pov from a “self justice” angle - imho the majority of team kills happen due to griefing, toxic trolling and reckless game play.
And most of those imho rather rare “kill steal revenge kills” are either based on wrong perception and missing understanding of damage models - and are committed by way less experienced players than you.
So from a holistic pov you are rejecting an easy way to prevent the overwhelming majority of team kills just to punish kill stealing players in case they can be objectively seen as “clean” kill stealers. Somehow understandable from your pov - but imho the game overall would benefit more if the high number of teamkills would go down first…
Only reason I TK time to time is due to people killstealing… when I start playing, I tend to not care too much, but you have matches where you have 2 or sometimes more kills stolen, and that gets on my nerves to the point rational thought goes out the window and the person who happened to have done it is going to get it. Yes, it’s just some nonsense point on the statcard, but I spend my time in this game just like anyone else, team mates do not somehow have more rights to it when all the effort came from someone else. If I don’t feel that effort is displayed anywhere, then there’s no point to play this game because what else is there to do in WT? Nothing. It’s an arcade shooter just like FPS games. WT, while trying to be, isn’t a team game; the game objectives aren’t aligned, there’s no proper communication system, there are no team goals if you want a high win rate. Team mates are random, may or may not help you and even so, may not pick the right target because you cannot communicate properly in this game. This is a single player game for all intends and purposes unfortunately.
Gaijin can easily address this, and honestly I CANT WAIT until they make this new kill award system where basically both the person who shot the plane dead but not the pilot and the other person who “steals” both get +1 kill awarded. At that point I personally will not give a damn anymore if people go and shoot the planes that are flatspinning in the air to clean them up. I will get my kill regardless, so will the other person. I do not care about the SL/RP rewards whatsoever.
You watch some good players streaming random ARB who aren’t under your partner program, you see the same. Killsteals are nearly always retaliated. It’s just how it is.
You can’t fix this really, it happens but it’s unintentional and not that often
Usually other way around, competitive players will TK for it, casual people tend to not care too much outside of some ranting in chat perhaps… still, nobody likes it when their kill is stolen
Oh - this was aimed at the fellow Ground RB players, some friends are somehow addicted to tanks - and they have severe issues with reckless Pe-8 users. In the linked thread of the old forum you see some examples of players actually caught by this auto-ban thing, and (ofc) a Pe-8 player…
Mhm - we play different games. I see a lot of “revenge” team kills rather at the lower side of player experience. So if we could agree on the the fact that experienced players are even rarer than “revenge team kills”, it seems obvious to me as spectator that a lack of actual know-how drives the majority of those “kill steal revenge team killers”.
They can’t distinguish between hits and crits, they can’t determine the damage they inflicted (“but i set them on fire”), have zero clue about effects of smoking engines, missing wingtips, etc. and even if friendlies scored objectively clean kills, they found ways to insult each other and subsequently commit team kills, as not all actual kill steals are that easy to determine like the classic flat spinning guy tumbling down like a leaf.
Most of those guys just lack the experiences of several thousand matches to come to the “right” conclusions - as they never had the “pleasure” to set an A6M5 3 times on fire in the same match and seeing them repairing 2 times after the first 2 fires.
And to qualify the “flat spinning” or “going down in flames” kill steals - imho this is just another example of totally ineffective/stupid game settings. So especially if you are not “kill driven” and don’t follow those planes, you see quite often 2 contrary effects:
Although i have the same understanding of wt like you and i fully support your view on things in your first paragraph, i do not share your view on things of this “one enemy - 2 kills” approach.
If you read the fine print of this proposal you see that gaijin tries to exchange a rewarded single kill today into a possible 2 kill allocation of the same plane in the future - imho this proposal is another episode of “with good intentions is the opposite of good”. So a plane that is a clear kill today (black marker) might result in 2 possible kills in the future, your “kill steal issue” won’t be solved by this proposal.
As we agree that wt in just a plain shooter, your view looks comprehensible regarding the outcome, so the total number of player kills on your stat card.
But imho wt is also attractive for plane enthusiasts, and if you have any passion for WW 2 aerial warfare you might acknowledge that everything outside “one enemy - one kill” is just another attempt of gaijin to deal with their inability to allocate kills correctly.
Like, plenty of examples just like this, room for improvement? No, they should just delete whatever code they have now and make it properly… there are so many flaws in the current system.
This guy was totally undamaged, that other Yak-3 didn’t crit him or anything before… he just spray and didn’t even kill him – yet still somehow the kill STILL goes to him for whatever reason.
Yea good system, not at all makes people upset. And if it only would be a 1-off type of thing, but it isn’t.
With whatever they are going to change, they hopefully remove this type of kill assignment entirely because it makes no sense whatsoever.
This is the game being the equivalent of a burning bowl of spaghetti
This mechanic is utterly BS - i can’t create vids via xbox, so i have to work with replay links.
And just 2 matches later the same incident, i severely damage a plane, nobody else touches it and my target “crashed”, no kill, no points, no SL/RP - nothing. And the replay battlelog says “Player credited for kill: Uncle…”
So instead of defending these nonsense mechanics it would be great if you can use your privilege access to gaijin to improve the game.
And even if i am not “number/kill driven” - the fellow player above is right - game mechanics with major flaws are creating frustration and are leading subsequently to intentional team kills. At the end every player wants to get rewarded for his actions and not get robbed by others or faulty coding…
And: Bug reports are imho useless for such things.
There are countless open reports for intentional team killing by ramming (and blaming the victim as teamkiller), and even bug reports for missing reward allocations (like here) remain untouched - 3 times missing “mission decider” reward in 2-3 weeks is a joke…
As I said, “may be flawed”, but that’s not the topic here, the topic being TK, and the stance is “there is no excuse for a TK”.
That’s fine, but there are 2 types of TK…
The first you can not really address, well sorta by banning, but the second you can…
These people aren’t there to “be toxic”, they just want to have fun. They don’t want the (broken) game mechanics to annoy them. They get frustrated after years of it…
To fix those issues, you could of course do the following:
No, you still don’t understand. There are no two types (which would imply “good” and “bad” TK’s).
TK’s are not allowed, no matter how frustrated you are about anything that happens to you in the game.
Any discussion about “…but I get frustrated when someone does this or that…” are completely irrelevant. Just as your not allowed to become abusive and insulting in chat, your not allowed to damage or kill your team member, neither by intention or by neglect.
You seem to be arguing or at least implying that TK is ok in situation where the game mechanics lets players behave in a way that you dislike (a way which however - please note - is not forbidden).
Good suggestions, I wholeheartedly agree there is room for improvement, but again, i no way are those shortcomings any relevant argument that would justify a TK.
Yes, I get frustrated too when someone kills the base I aimed for. But he was there first, and if positions are switched I will also engage the base when I’m closer, and not wait for the other guy.
Because of this I usually always mark the base I aim for (in Sim EC), and immediately also send a “follow me” radio command, so others aiming for the base may judge if they’re closer or farther away and should try to engage or not.
Of course, it depends a lot on the situation, but the main point is: I don’t “own” a base just because I marked it, and I don’t “own” a kill only because I was the first to inflict damage to a target.
Marking helps organise the players, helps them to decide what action to take. Nothing else.
If we could agree on the fact that wt has the outstanding ability to keep you emotionally attached - even if you played it for years - it is logical that these emotions can result in non-rational behaviour if you get disappointed by game mechanics. So imho gaijin is responsible to prevent negative emotions if they are rooted in faulty game mechanics.
No offense, but imho it looks like that some topics are either too expensive to fix (and therefore ignored) or the janitors cleaning server rooms are using to much water - there is way too much RNG in wt.
We have (again) op midmap AA (hitscan) on certain maps either killing you if you dogfight near a enemy mini-base - or killing you above your own mini-base if you perform a BnZ attack on an enemy player near a base.(replay, killed at 2:51 by own aa). Just check this thread: Link.
So closing the circle to team kills:
Have a good one!
Nonsense. When there are Fail Squads sabotaging teams and matches, TeamKilling the entire squad is absolutely good and justified.
Why don’t you just ban the people here and in the game who try to promote, justify, suggest and defend teamkilling? The teamkilling goes on because moderation is not harsh enough at this topic so they take courage to defend teamkilling and do it themselves sometimes. I am talking about intentional teamkilling, accidents sometimes happen even if you are too careful about IFF, which happens to me too, sometimes I do it and sometimes it is done to me. But intentional teamkill and promoting/defending this disgusting thing has to be hammered hardly so no one else will ever talk positive about this irritating idea. Enough is enough. I started the game back in 2021 Spring…it is end of 2023 and if we try to talk about this instead of punishments, this will be a popular topic even in 2030. I know you may be already punishing teamkillers but more discouraging approach should be choosen if you would ask me @Schindibee
Yes, great approach, just silence and remove people who may be dissatisfied with how the game mechanics work instead of trying to work with them and come to a happy medium where everyone compromises to some extend and things can move forward. Sounds like a plan.
There is no compromise that can be applied to a violent way of rule breaking. This is like protesting against the law that makes it illegal to stab people with knives in real life. What compromise are you talking about?
First, this isn’t real life. That’s an entirely invalid comparison to make.
Second, the argument here is that people can get frustrated by the game mechanics which have quite a lot of room for improvement. It’s not like its something new. These mechanics have been criticized since the inception of this game… they make people mad, mad people do things which are not rational in hindsight. You can make a choice, just f those “angry” players into the ground as you suggest, or, you can try and understand the reasons behind that frustration and address those.
What do you imagine has the most positive outcome?
Disabling TK on and in the immediate vicinity of the runway would not “dumb down” the game.
That being said, Gaijin has no desire whatsoever to do anything about TK so you have nothing to worry about.
Its a complicit part of their game/business model and although they may posture they aren’t going to really do anything to address it.
That comment was related to his other suggestion, not about disabling FF on the runway (as you could have read). To that I responded that it won’t fix it because people can still just take off and wait for FF to be enabled again before blasting. I also commented that this type of TK’s, unprovoked at the start of the game, you aren’t going to address through mechanics other than handing out bans - as I also suggested.
Besides those TK’s resulting from sheer toxicity, there are also other TK’s resulting from pure frustration. Those can be addressed through game mechanic changes.