SB BR overhaul is needed

As it currently stands, BR in Sim makes no sense. Some aircraft have lower BRs they do in RB, others have higher. But it doesnt seem consistant and whether an aircraft is higher or lower seems to be a drawn from a hat.


The Phantom FGR2/FG1 have an ARB rating of 11.3 but an SB rating of 10.7
The Phantom F4J(UK) which is inferior to the FGR2 has an ARB rating of 11.3 and an SB rating of 11.3

Why does the premium Phantom which has inferior engines but is otherwise identical, not also have the reduced BR?

Harrier Gr7 has an ARB rating of 11.7 but is redcued down to 11.0 in SB, this seems reasonable as its ground attack power is not as important to balance. But the Tornado Gr1 11.3 in both SB and ARB does not get the same treatment. If we assume aircraft in SB are judged on their performance in PvP, then do you really think the Tornado Gr1 is superior to the Mig-23? I’d even consider the Harrier Gr7 superior in all-regards in SB to the Tornado Gr1

Onto the Mig-23s, The Mig-23ML has an ARB rating of 11.3 but an SB rating of 11.0. Why?

How come a premium Mig-23 has a lower BR than a Tornado IDS?

We also have the Tornado F3 and Tonrado ADV, 2 identical aircraft, at 2 different BRs. Why? This again makes no sense and why was the Tornado F3 ever at 11.7 in the first place, it cannot compete with F-16s or Mig-29s in ARB, why then do you think it can in SB

Please Gaijin can you A) release some information on how you determine what BR jets get in SB and B) can you make it consistant. I cant help feel that some jets get treated differently to others. Im sure there are far more examples than I have mentioned, but a number of jets feel totally unplayable on some rotations because they are pitted against jets they should never ever see and there is nothing you can do.


The tornado f.3 not being the same br as the ADV in sim is pretty unfair

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Yeah, I cant beleive it was simply an “oversight” it had to be a deliberate choice. The only one I can think of is that italy has the F-16 for Ec9, britain though doesnt have anything else. So by making the F3 11.7, it always has something for that bracket. Which also explains why the F3 was ever at 11.7 in the first place.

Battle ratings on simulator mode are far more inadequate than on any other game mode.
Just few examples:
MiG 23 ML on 11.0 (should be 11.3 like MiG 23 MLD/MLA)
Kfir C.2 with Python 3 (all aspect 40g missile) on 10.7 (should be atleast 11.0)
J35A on 9.7 (should be 10.0, but it’s not critical)
J35D on 10.7 (should be 10.3 like it is on RB - now on sim it has the same BR like premium J35XS while not having countermeasures)
And TBH all US phantoms should go 0.3/0.4 BR lower, especially F4J from 11.3 to 11.0 and F4C from 10.3 to 10.0. @Furmano
11.0 for tech F5E is also mistake, should be max 10.7.

Basically most of those planes would have better and more fitted BR on sims with their battle rating took straight from Realistic Battles.


Yep agreed

Go see the Chineese Jet BR of Realistic and Simulation, i already do a post for them. Same for Brits Phantom and Mirage F1, they can be 11.0 and 10.7 for the F1 for sure! But yep the pinnacle cherry of bullshit is the Q5 models, especially the last…oh my …

Just had to call me out when talking about phantoms, lol.

But yes, I agree with all the points made. Speaking of my fav phantoms:

F4C has no flares but faces planes armed with high-g missiles (hard to outmanuever them, once locked on it’s almost a death sentence) or straight up all aspect ones (you are just dead if you don’t realize you are going for a head-on with a plane armed with those). F4C really deserves a spot at 10.0, planes like mig-21 f-13 or mig-19 are perfectly capable of fighting it despite being lower BR, not to mention stuff like CAS version of mirage.

F4J is also rather weak and should be at 11.0, it won’t outmanuver stuff like Mirage F1 or the MLD, has SARH all aspect option but the doppler radar has no iff (it should have directional one but it isn’t represented in game) and has no all aspect IR missiles. Despite having the helmet sight, it can’t utilise it properly since AIM9G is too weak. All the other planes have stronger/comparable radar with working IFF, giving them same/better BVR and given how much of a brick F4J is - everything else has better WVR.

I’m pretty sure the japanese 11.3 phantom is the same - it should be dropped down to 11.0 while the Kai variant should be at 11.3. There are planes with solid modern radar at that BR already (viggen for example). It would fit decently into the BR working like a heavier viggen - more missiles, worse dogfighting capability.


In fact japanese F-4EJ Kai Phantom is even 11.7 which makes it now unplayable, facing MiG 29s and F16s, as there is no separate roster for 11.7 planes.

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Yep, some BRs need to be changed, my Mig-23ML on 11.0 is overkill, it should be 11.3 like the others.

And american Phantoms should be lowered to 10.7, so we have more “meat” at that BR XD

I hope the changes will be for impriving the roaster and to make it worst ;)

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I dont get why there are such massive difference in BR for the phantoms. Some are 10.7 (FGR2/FG1 for example) others are 11.7. Do they really have that big a difference in performance?

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Honestly the whole mode needs an overhaul not just the aircraft, although I agree with you.
Maps need to be much larger, maybe some more navel maps and have us bomb convoys and respawn after awhile. Mini Events of some sort within an on going SIM match?
Spit balling here but you see my point.

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I’ve got this on-going for exactly that stuff as well

It’s the same with the Tornado IDS ASSTA1. It’s a fucking 11.7 on SB. Why??? It’s the only Tornado over 11.3, with everything besides a little bit of extra speed the same as the other Tornados. As if you can out speed a Mach 3 BVR missile. YOu dont even have a radar ffs.


I’m a VR simmer who plays both DCS and WT. I recently got some 11.0-3 premium jets because of the much higher FPS and less stutter compared to DCS. I consider myself a decent pilot but:

Fighting F16s with:
J7-D which is in Snail planet is a copy-paste of MiG-21 Bis == OK, can maneuver with it but just barely.

F4-S, a missile truck. If I don’t see the F16 first, it’s guaranteed death sentence

Mirage F1C-200, something is very wrong with the flight model. It can somehow supercruise with full load but cannot maneuver at all. No ACM button to extend the combat slats+flaps also. Has a truck load of countermeasures but the F16 can basically gun you down.

Guess I’ll return to DCS for the time being. At least skills still matter there.


The 11.7 one has the F-16 radar and AIM-7F, if you put it at 11.3, it would change the game completly for 11.3

The 11.3 ones seem to me they should be 10.7 too

You really expect to beat an F-16 with those planes if the F-16 doesn’t make big mistakes ?

The game would be wrong if you can win a BR12 fightter with BR11 fighters, or an BR11.3 interceptor/bomber.

You need an Mig-29 for that.

I have killed many F-16 with the Mig23 or tge Mirage F1, but because they were unaware, or the pilot lacked skill, or numerical superiority, but if you find a decent pilot in 1vs1, he will kill you

I think thats the point he is trying to make, Why are those jets matched against an F-16? Tornado F3 for example has to exclusively fight against Mig-29s and F-16s and its not fun. I literally dont play that jet at all, because even with its recent upgrades, its still no match. I have to get lucky with my first missile, or just J out. There is no third option

Those jets are 11.3 and 11.0, can be played on EC8 many days. He bought 3 premiums and expected to beat top tier planes.

The British Tornado is another thing.

The point I’m trying to make is skill doesn’t matter in EC9 when the supermaneuverable jets with a vastly simplified radar mechanic meets previous-gen interceptors.

Give me my full-fidelity RWR in cockpit and full radar controls with repeat frequency, elevation, scan zone and ECCM (and enforce these manual controls in EC on every aircraft) and I can kill F16s all day in the Flogger. The problem is the current F16 pilots doesn’t need to worry about any of these, they just do the massive tailstrike takeoff, turn on their radar, point, shoot, pull their planes into 40* AoA during dgfts and get thier kills.

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Nah, it’s just a lot of oversight because sim BRs aren’t observed as much due to the bracket system & the lack of players giving information to the data collection servers.