Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’

[GHOST_KING5710]

@jon_man1199

The Mobelwagen equipped with the quad 30mm is NOT the actual Flakpanzer IV Zerstörer 45.

But if that so then this documents confirms the creation of at least one Zerstörer 45 (the real one with the wirbilwind configuration)

Bc why would they label a Mobelwage that was used only as a test bed as Zerstörer 45 if they didn’t actually built one.

I mean all documents referred to the Mobelwage as only for testing (not documented nor labelled as a Zerstörer 45) plus the documents say that there was at leat one Zerstörer 45 that got built thus means a quad 30mm in a wirbilwind configuration was actually built and tested at some point before being dismantled so it don’t get captured

[GHOST_KING5710]

Plus why can’t we give the Zerstörer 45 the same treatment of the Kugelblitz, in the end there was no pics of fully built Kugelblitz we only have pics for it’s turret

And here we have the same thing we don’t have pics of fully built Zerstörer 45 we only have pics of the gun

[Iluminas]

There was a news articel of 5 destroyed Kugelblitz that were found let me see if i can find it

[Iluminas]

Destroyed Kugelblitz captured during the battle for Berlin. Photo: SOURCE
There is information about another Kugelblitz vehicle that was used in combat, but in this case against Allied forces on the West, more specifically during the battles for Hörschel, Spichra and Creuzburg by the end of March and beginning of April 1945. As the American forces advanced through central parts of Germany, they came to a small village named Spichra. This village was surrounded by the Werra River and the only way across was through a partly destroyed bridge connected to a power plant. This bridge was defended with few anti-tank guns, some Panzer IIIs (marked as training vehicles) and one Kugelblitz (from the Panzerflak Ersatz und Ausbildungsabteilung). All were located at Spatenberg Hill near this village. An American reconnaissance force was sent to investigate and to find a place where the river crossing could be possible. This unit came under German fire and was forced to pull out with some losses. The American response was to bomb the village and the nearby hill. In the following battle the Kugelblitz was destroyed and its remains were discovered in 1999.
By the end of the war, the Allies managed to capture one Kugelblitz turret. Until the seventies it was stored at Royal Military College of Science at Shrivenham, United Kingdom. It was eventually returned to Germany (in the late seventies) and can now be seen at the Anti-Aircraft School at Rendsburg (Schleswig-Holstein).

pictures of the destroyd turret

source:https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-germany-leichte-flakpanzer-iv-3-cm-kugelblitz/

[GHOST_KING5710]

This is interesting but what happened to the rest of it XD

[Iluminas]

It was probs blown up and this part looks like it is in a ditch so no one cared

[GHOST_KING5710]

Whispers from the Archives | Flakpanzer IV ‘Zerstörer 45’ and Flakpanzer IV ‘Ostwind II’

Video by tank encyclopedia if anyone want to know more about Zerstörer 45 and Ostwind II

[war_Tinder]

Can the LAV-AD have 2 stinger launcher’s + a Hydra pod ingame? Also, are you saying that the LAV-AD with a hydra and a stinger pod was never built or that it was a scrapped prototype?

[GHOST_KING5710]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/1lmunm2B5o

It do exists

[war_Tinder]

The image you sent has a pod with 7 rockets. Gaijin gave it a pod with 19 rockets.

[Karatekakerlake]

From what I could find it said that during planning the idea of the Hydra pod was scrapped as in, it wasnt even mounted. Apparently it was but still ingame in a state it never was with the 19 rockets. Yes I´ve been mistaken with the 2 Stinger launchers and Hydra pod. So why does one vehicle get the best implementation possible while the other gets the worst implementation possible?

[GHOST_KING5710]

Let’s clarify things bc i am losing ground of the main argument.

First the LAV-AD it’s real all Gaijin did was giving it a pod with 19 rockets ok that’s fine no problem.

R2Y2 and Ho-Ri production both fake but i have to agree with @war_Tinder Japan need them and even if they did got a replacement for them i hope they don’t get removed so they don’t suffer the same problem of the Flakpanzer 341, 105 King Tiger and the Panther II.

Yak-141 introduced to the game with it’s full capabilities despite not having some of them in real life but can’t say no to that bc we also have the Ho-229 that got its guns and it’s engines buffed (then nerf both of them after that) but ok Yak-141 is fine in the game.

Tog II no problem add some fake things it was at least built.

Ostwind II a vehicle that we have zero info about no pics of the gun nor the vehicles but no problem add it to the game to replace the Flakpanzer 341 bc one prototype presumably was built.

So back to the main agreement of weather the Zerstörer 45 was built or not in my opinion i believe it was actually built bc like what @jon_man1199 sed the designation Zerstörer 45 was given to the Flakpanzer IV 3cm Flakvierling which is this

And not to what was introduced in the dev log as i sed earlier the Mobelwage was only a test bed it was never met to be nor designated as Zerstörer 45 so basically this thing shouldn’t be named as Zerstörer 45

But instead as @Iluminas sed the name should be Mobelwage mit 3cm flakvierling

And all of the documents above agree with this bc all mentioned the Mobelwage as only for testing and the Flakpanzer IV 3cm Flakvierling (wirbilwind configuration) is the real Zerstörer 45

Plus in the pic it says that there is one wirbelwind prototype that was built, one Ostwind 1 and Ostwind II prototypes that where built, 5 Kugelblitz prototypes that where built, and one Zerstörer 45 prototype that where built which is the Flakpanzer IV 3cm Flakvierling and not the Mobelwage 3cm Flakvierling.

And to make sure that the Zerstörer 45 was actually built we can presume just like the Ostwind II bc of the existing of the gun and there was plenty of Pz.IV chassis i don’t find it hard nor impossible that at least one Zerstörer 45 was built bc we have all the parts all it was needed is to put armour plates with the same layout of the wirbilwind around the gun and that’s all what was needed to get a Zerstörer 45.

My thoughts is:

1. To even change the name of the Zerstörer 45 to its real name Mobelwage mit 3cm Flakvierling.

2. Or remove the fake Zerstörer 45 we got and replace it with the real one.

What’s everyone thoughts on this? @TT33a @TheArcticFoxxo @jd_hog77 @war_Tinder @SinisterIsRandom @Iluminas @Ghostmaxi @FlipAllTheTables @jon_man1199 @Lord_Prism @GuardOfTheSquare

[Lord_Prism]

Knowing gaijin, they’ll take the easy path and just rename it

[SinisterIsRandom]

The chances of Gaijin removing a vehicle are little to none once it’s shown in development. So as Prism said, they will take said route. Also, do not ping/mention me.

[jon_man1199]

I’d be perfectly fine with them keeping the one coming in the game and changing the name to something like what Iluminas suggested (ie Möbelkraftwagen mit 3cm Flakvierlingslafette). Then later down the line the real Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’ (which funnily enough was in that big huge model leak eons ago) could be added.

I mean at this point we have the Ostwind II which also has a massive debate around it in terms of whether or not it was built in the form we have in the game. So honestly at this point, the gun mount was built, it’s pretty much your standard run-of-the-mill Panzer IV conversion so I say go ahead and add the actual Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’ even if questions exist on if it was built or not.

As for the actual history of both vehicles, I should make note that in conversations I’ve had with Hillary Doyle, he has said neither the Ostwind II nor the Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’ were ever actually fully built as Ostbau-Sagan could not construct such prototypes so late in the war.

[FlipAllTheTables]

@jon_man1199

which funnily enough was in that big huge model leak eons ago

I keep very good tabs on leaks and I never saw the Zestorer 45’s model being leaked. The only leak I know of for the Zestorer 45 was simply the names of vehicles that Gaijin was working on, but no models came attached.

Now we know that this is the “actual” Zestorer 45 they were working on.

[Jarms]

one Zerstörer 45 prototype that where built which is the Flakpanzer IV 3cm Flakvierling and not the Mobelwage 3cm Flakvierling.

Where does it say the prototype isn’t the Mobelwagen? It says:

“first built on a Mobelwagen chassis for testing purposes, and was to be installed in a turret of a Wirbelwind later.”

“only one prototype built by Ostbau in December 1944.”

To me this text reads that the Mobelwagen is to be considered the Zerst 45 prototype built in December 1944. The implications of “was to be installed in the turret of a Wirbelwind” implies that it wasn’t done.

[jon_man1199]

The Mobelwagen was only used for testing purposes and thus can’t be considered the prototype as far as the Zerstörer 45 goes. Even Doyle says the same thing

[TT33a]

@GHOST_KING5710

What’s everyone’s thought on this?

Gaijin dropped the ball yet again. My thoughts are: how the hell did gaijin & some others on here miss the text clearly stating…to increase the effectiveness of the Wirbelwind (not Möbelwagen), the 3 cm Mk 103 was to replace the 2 cm:

What was suggested here was the Zerstörer 45, not some poorly done, random fantasy interpretation of a ““Möbelwagen mit 3 cm Flakvierling””. Gaijin has been pulling this kind of subterfuge since this game’s inception, such as on the:

1.) Me 264 V3, which should have had the BMW 801 G, the enlarged definitive production wing, RATO, the finalized defensive armament of seven MG 151 & one MG 131, and the external wing racks

2.) Bv 238 V4, which should have had its missing MG 131s in the side S-Stands, larger caliber bombs besides the SC 250, and the external wing racks

3.) Bv 155 B, which should have never been put into this game since it was just a developmental interim airframe abandoned in favor of the definitive configuration: the Bv 155 C

4.) Fw 200 C-1, which is a weaker, extremely rare variant that was inexplicably added to this game at the expense of the mainstream & common Fw 200 C-4

5.) StuG III G, which, in contrast to the excessive amounts of identical T-34 that proliferate this game, gaijin has decided to implement in only one single early example of the prolific Ausführung G series in a rare, early May 1943 configuration instead of a peak of production representation. To make matters worse, even the Finnish have been denied a proper StuG III G representation as well

6.) Ju 87 D-5’s divebrake which were repeatedly disabled in 2014 due to gaijin’s lack of research & incompetent stubbornness. If anyone still remembers my old topic (now hidden) on that, and the effort it took to reimplement something that never should have been removed

With regards to German vehicles, gaijin deliberately picks and chooses whatever fictional, rare, random, or least effective configuration that fits their whim instead of the actual, finalized, and definitive configuration selected for mass production. I will predict that the next target of their bias will most likely be the Junkers Ju 287. Instead of the expected V3, the V1 low-speed testbed will be implemented into this game

Gaijin can’t really work off of “likely”, can they?

They did exactly that for the Kronshtadt &/or the Togs’s tank:

@jon_man1199

In all reality, Gaijin should probably fix the name to reflect that this is not the actual Zerstörer 45 but a test vehicle for the quad 30mm

What this guy said. At the minimum, gaijin should either:

A.) rename this vehicle to 3 cm Flakvierling auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf) or Möbelwagen mit 3 cm Flakvierling

B.) completely rework the model by deleting & replacing the 3 cm MK 103 weapons with either a 1 x 3.7 cm or 4 x 2 cm while renaming the vehicle to 3.7 cm Flak auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf), 2 cm Flakvierling auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (Sf), or Möbelwagen

C.) pass this bungled attempt at a Zerstörer 45 off as an elaborate April Fools joke and then execute either A.) or B.)

Most importantly, a suggestion for the Zerstörer 45 should be resubmitted until it is approved, just to make sure that gaijin doesn’t get away with this and so that the actual Zerstörer 45 gets (eventually) implemented into this game

[GHOST_KING5710]

I feel defeated man every one got to have thier fake stuff but when it comes to Germany noo how dare us have some fun