Enhancing Player Experience in War Thunder: Addressing Early Exits to Improve Match Quality and Retention

[Pecanin]

1.In MMO where everybody plays their own game …strategy largely left the room somewhere around 2017/18

2. Reward system is not fit for purpose as long as game doesn’t add up your assists,you can literally set tank on fire three times and other player repairs each time then once killed by somebody else you don’t even get assist .

3. There is no skill to improve when you are constantly fighting vehicles that can kill you if they only look at you whilst you must look for that 5cm weak point from 1 km away.

4. This game is not about team play anymore ,you will rarely have somebody help you repair ,let alone pull you out of fire or god forbid park in front of you to tank hits…as it used to be.

5. nothing to add to that except to say that spawning plane or tank after rushing cap point has been number one reason why so many left game or leave after first match.

6.No challenge where two nations get all benefits of biased development and others must grin and bear it .

I don’t enjoy matches where result has been determined before match even started.

[Johny404]

I wonder if duplicate ODL threads get same treatment as duplicate anti CAS threads.

[ZendikarHaven]

ChatGPT ahh post

[Dadadudu]

This is not a duplicate post.

I made a post in February, four months ago now, which did include a discussion about ODL as well. However, ODL was not the main topic of that post but just one of the many things listed in between, and it was very poorly ordered / written. Additionally, it is now several months old and cannot be deleted by me personally.

Furthermore, this post is not an exact copy of any ODL threat. It presents entirely different listed reasons and is better formulated.

[Dadadudu]

I don’t see anything wrong with using ChatGPT to correct spelling mistakes, grammar, or to have it write down reasons in a better, more understandable way.

[Johny404]

People will still 1 death leave. The issue was never repair costs

Repair costs were just an excuse for people who yolo and die or can only use meta vehicles, nothing else. We will continue to see 1 death leavers. I think the community as a whole should re-evaluate how they play the game/use their vehicles. The recent economy change however contradicts that notion. Oh well.

Solution to One-Death-Leavers / One-Death-Quitters Problem

During the last 2-4 years one death leaving (ODL) or one death quitting has become a major problem in this game. Games exist to be an interactive plattform where the actions of the players that take part in it have an effect on the outcome of it. But especially in higher BRs ODL has become the key factor if a match is won or lost. This completely takes away the reason of what a game is and how it works. There are more reasons for why ODL is a problem for war thunder, which is a multi-spawn gam…

One Spawn Quitters

Hi Guys, What are your thoughts about players leaving the game after using 1 tank/Heli? Gaijin need to do something about this, It really affect the game. What are your suggestions for penalties or consciences? Thank you.

1 Death Leavers - Post economy Experience

Step 1: Click to battle (Germany 10.3) Step 2: Join a match Step 3: Spawn in Leo-2A4 Step 4: wait 30 seconds in bush killing 2 tanks / GO and play the OBJ Step 5: Open score board and see 10/15 friendly players have disconnected Step 6: cower in fear as 11+ players + CAS are now bombing and annihilating you in spawn 3 min into the match Step 7: “No players active on team” Step 9: Repeat This has been my experience with 9.7-11.7 GROUND RB as of late as people still just leave after one de…

etc…

[House_of_Schmidt]

Gaijin needs to give something to players to stay. This could include bonus modifiers once ur teams tickets fall below a certain %, or a reduction in SP cost once your teams tickets fall below a %, or AI reinforcements, or even just an end of the match bonus when you lose if ur still in a vehicle.

Just something so players stay.

They also need to fortify spawn points better.

[Dadadudu]

I can’t see any posts properly addressing/listing the points I mentioned above.

[Johny404]

That is not the point. Point is you do not have to create another thread about same issue. You can just post reply with your concerns in existing thread. All these threads are about same topic and it is ODL.

[GoneToTheAether]

ODL is a symptom of other problems.

I can only speak for myself here at the probable causes:

1. Economy - while astronomical repairs are mostly a thing of the past, some machines are still ridiculous (looking at you F-82E), thus if you die in them and the match isn’t a guaranteed victory it’s best to cut losses and leave.
2. THE MAPS - Once the survivors of the initial wave have pitched their tents, particularly on larger maps, it is often not worth spawning in to potentially drive 5+min only to be shot by a rolling bush. This is why large maps get so much hate - its not the first spawn that is intolerable but rather the subsequent ones. Most maps, large and small, are very campy, thus it is frequently an uphill battle just to get out of spawn on quite a few of them, ranging from classics like Karelia and Ash River to more modern examples.
3. I may be only spading one tank and thus have nothing left to bother using.
4. I am uptiered and my uptier insurance just was taken out.

As far as I’m concerned, economy can be fiddled with to address issues with remaining outlier planes. Point 3 can never be “solved” per se as it would harm sales of high tier premiums. Point 4 would only be solvable by either reducing BR spread of the matchmaker, expanding BRs to at least 20.0, or other means.

The “large map debate” and thus the “enemies have taken all the good spots, WT is a defensive game, and thus unless I get lucky and a teammate CAS’s the guy out of their camping hole I can’t move far” have a possible solution - borrow Naval EC-style objectives. Caps double as spawns for teams controlling them, and vice versa. Then larger maps are allowed without automatically meaning tons of meaningless drive time on second spawns.

[simbadumba]

You’re using chatgpt for everything.

[Dadadudu]

No, not everything. I use it for what I said I use it for, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

It doesn’t change a single thing whether I wrote it all out personally or if I have ChatGPT do it; the points remain exactly the same.

[simbadumba]

@Dadadudu

It doesn’t change a single thing whether I wrote it all out personally or if I have ChatGPT do it; the points remain exactly the same.

Guess i can ask chatgpt for counter points towards everything you said and we can have an argument between 2 bots because this forum was clearly made for ai only interactions

[Dadadudu]

You could, but none of them are good or even make sense, as I have already checked that. They actually support the points above, add more to them, or discuss the difficulties of implementing a system that is fair and effective in preventing early exits.

Here are the eight Counter-Points ChatGPT listed :

1. Player Autonomy and Freedom:

• Forcing players to stay in a match can feel restrictive and diminish the overall enjoyment for those who might have valid reasons to leave early, such as real-life obligations or technical issues. Players should have the autonomy to decide when to leave a game.

2. Unavoidable Circumstances:

• Early exits can be due to factors beyond a player’s control, such as connectivity problems, emergencies, or unexpected interruptions. Penalizing players for these issues could unfairly punish those who are not at fault.

3. Natural Part of Competitive Gaming:

• Early exits are a common occurrence in many competitive games and can add an element of unpredictability. This unpredictability can sometimes make matches more dynamic and interesting, as remaining players must adapt and overcome new challenges.

4. Potential for Toxicity:

• Measures to reduce early exits might inadvertently foster a toxic environment where players are pressured to stay in hopeless situations, leading to increased frustration and potentially toxic behavior towards those who might have valid reasons for leaving.

5. Negative Impact on Casual Players:

• Implementing strict measures against early exits could alienate casual players who play the game for fun and might not always be able to commit to full matches. This could reduce the overall player base, especially among those who play more casually.

6. Complexity of Implementation:

• Creating a fair and effective system to address early exits without penalizing innocent players is complex and resource-intensive. The development and maintenance of such systems could divert resources from other important aspects of the game.

7. Player Agency in Match Dynamics:

• The strategic depth and excitement of the game can come from the players’ ability to adapt to changing circumstances, including early exits. Remaining players might find satisfaction in overcoming the odds and securing a victory despite being outnumbered.

8. Focus on Positive Reinforcement:

• Instead of penalizing early leavers, the game could focus on positive reinforcement for those who stay, such as offering additional rewards for completing matches or implementing systems that recognize and reward teamwork and perseverance.

By considering these counter-points, it becomes clear that addressing the issue of early exits in War Thunder is not straightforward and requires a balanced approach that respects player freedom while enhancing the overall gaming experience.

And here are the counter-points to the counter-points that actually make sense.

1. Player Autonomy and Freedom:

• While player autonomy is important, the collective experience of all players in a match should take precedence. Allowing early exits without consequences disrupts the enjoyment and investment of the remaining players, leading to an overall poorer gaming experience. Implementing reasonable penalties or incentives can balance individual freedom with communal enjoyment.

2. Unavoidable Circumstances:

• Systems can be designed to distinguish between unavoidable circumstances and habitual early exits. For instance, occasional disconnections could be treated leniently, whereas repeated early exits might result in escalating penalties. This approach ensures that players facing genuine issues are not unfairly punished while discouraging habitual early leavers.

3. Natural Part of Competitive Gaming:

• While early exits add unpredictability, they often result in unbalanced and less competitive matches, undermining the integrity of the game. Ensuring more stable team compositions fosters a fairer and more enjoyable competitive environment, which outweighs the minor benefits of unpredictability.

4. Potential for Toxicity:

• Toxicity can be mitigated through well-designed systems that encourage positive behavior rather than simply punishing negative actions. For example, offering substantial rewards for completing matches can motivate players to stay without fostering a toxic environment. Furthermore, a system that takes into account the context of early exits can minimize unwarranted pressure on players.

5. Negative Impact on Casual Players:

• Casual players can be accommodated with flexible solutions, such as separate casual and ranked modes. Casual modes could have lenient policies on early exits, while ranked modes implement stricter measures to preserve competitive integrity. This way, casual players are not alienated, and the game’s core competitive experience remains intact.

6. Complexity of Implementation:

• While developing and maintaining such systems might be complex, the long-term benefits of increased player retention and enhanced game balance justify the investment. Prioritizing the creation of fair and effective systems to manage early exits can ultimately lead to a more stable and rewarding game environment.

7. Player Agency in Match Dynamics:

• The need for players to adapt to early exits often results in frustration rather than strategic satisfaction. Ensuring stable team compositions allows players to fully engage with the intended strategic depth of the game, leading to a more fulfilling and less chaotic gaming experience.

8. Focus on Positive Reinforcement:

• Positive reinforcement should complement, not replace, measures to prevent early exits. While rewarding players for completing matches is beneficial, it does not address the root issue of habitual early leavers. A combined approach of incentives and penalties is more effective in ensuring consistent match participation.

By considering these arguments, it is evident that addressing early exits in War Thunder requires a multifaceted approach that balances individual freedoms with the overall quality and fairness of the gaming experience.

tl;dr The original post is right, and the AI agrees as well.

[ItsOnyy]

@GoneToTheAether

THE MAPS - Once the survivors of the initial wave have pitched their tents, particularly on larger maps, it is often not worth spawning in to potentially drive 5+min only to be shot by a rolling bush.

This could be solved by giving light vehicles (or squad leaders) the ability to build rally points for your squad to spawn into, this would solve spawn camping to an extent as there will be more places to spawn from and give more depth to GRB, it also removes some of the tediousness that is driving on big maps.

Gaijin could also add additional spawnable cap points near the mid-section of big maps to cut driving times when you die and keep the momentum going. Tiny things like that could help with player retention.

[SanguineSerpent]

For grinding, I guess I can understand that. For having fun? I think it’s more engaging to move onto a match where you have a higher probability of performing better, than to spend more time on a match that you aren’t getting any enjoyment from.

[Dadadudu]

And how can you be certain that a bad match won’t turn enjoyable?

Personally, in my 3,000 matches so far, the best ones were those where I initially felt like quitting but decided to stick to it. There were times I respawned up to seven times. But how can you be sure that the rest of the match will continue to be garbage if you leave immediately?

When you are capable of staying alive for a long time and notices the match is close to ending or done for it is understandable to leave at this point.

However, it’s often when the enemy is about to win that they make mistakes. I’ve been in matches where, despite being outnumbered (four against more than ten) and with our spawn already swarmed, we managed to turn the tide.

We killed like four enemies while in Spawn Protection, reached the Capture Point, and held it as every enemy blindly rushed toward our position, then managed to get the other Objectives. Ultimately, we won the heavily outnumbered, over 20-minute match, and it was immensely enjoyable.

I would have missed out on that if I had left on impulse after my first or second death, both of which happened within the first two minutes and were quite annoying, because it really wasn’t fun until then and they were already Helis and Enemies sniping into our Spawn, but I stuck to it and voilà, turned an utter garbage Match to one of the most enjoyable I ever had.

The same principle applies in real life. Past negative experiences often cloud your perception of the future, and you automatically assume the worst when, in reality, you cannot predict what will happen.

I don’t see how it is ‘engaging’ either to jump from one Match to another without finishing any because you automatically assume the entire Match is going to be bad because of the first few Minutes, which also ruins the fun for everyone else on your Team who y’know…actually want an engaging experience and balanced Match. And so what if it continues to suck? That’s part of Gaming.

Some battles you lose, some battles you win.

When has it become so common to just leave mid-Match in Multiplayer Games? This was definitely not the case years ago; people joined in and stuck to it, tried their best or played for fun but remained in the Match regardless if it was a loss or not. If I’m being honest, it really sounds more like an ego/sensitivity issue to do this in an MP game. And from my experience with dozens of other MP games I’m playing from all across the board, be it RTS, shooters, beat 'em up, etc., that is also always the case…

That + the Points i have already listed above in my other Comment(s) / Original Post.

[Miragen]

Spawn your premium vehicle once, die, leave before you get spawcamped, waste time playing TT vehicles, get revenge bombed, flanked, your team leaves and a plethora of nonsense.

Imagine trying to play the game and be rewarded with this.

https://new.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1da25w5/hope_everyones_grind_is_going_better_than_mine/

[SanguineSerpent]

I get what you mean here, and I share mostly the same thoughts as you do.
The problem I can think of here, is that you can only play the vehicle you want to play a maximum of two times. This is especially the case if you do not have a good lineup to support those vehicles, nor if you are trying to grind a new tech tree with a premium vehicle. Crew levels also affect the enjoyment, as why would you want to play another tank with level 1 crew, if you can simply leave the match and play with a better one?

If there was a way to play a vehicle you want to play as many times as you want in a match, I think there would definitely be more engagement in matches.

[simbadumba]

@Dadadudu

tl;dr The original post is right, and the AI agrees as well.

Large amount of what the ai said is buzzwords. Everyone knows early exits are bad. Not much will be done about it in a while (check the roadmap).