Enhancing Player Experience in War Thunder: Addressing Early Exits to Improve Match Quality and Retention

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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22

This could be solved by giving light vehicles (or squad leaders) the ability to build rally points for your squad to spawn into, this would solve spawn camping to an extent as there will be more places to spawn from and give more depth to GRB, it also removes some of the tediousness that is driving on big maps.

Gaijin could also add additional spawnable cap points near the mid-section of big maps to cut driving times when you die and keep the momentum going. Tiny things like that could help with player retention.

23

For grinding, I guess I can understand that. For having fun? I think it’s more engaging to move onto a match where you have a higher probability of performing better, than to spend more time on a match that you aren’t getting any enjoyment from.

1 Like
24

And how can you be certain that a bad match won’t turn enjoyable?

Personally, in my 3,000 matches so far, the best ones were those where I initially felt like quitting but decided to stick to it. There were times I respawned up to seven times. But how can you be sure that the rest of the match will continue to be garbage if you leave immediately?

When you are capable of staying alive for a long time and notices the match is close to ending or done for it is understandable to leave at this point.

However, it’s often when the enemy is about to win that they make mistakes. I’ve been in matches where, despite being outnumbered (four against more than ten) and with our spawn already swarmed, we managed to turn the tide.

We killed like four enemies while in Spawn Protection, reached the Capture Point, and held it as every enemy blindly rushed toward our position, then managed to get the other Objectives. Ultimately, we won the heavily outnumbered, over 20-minute match, and it was immensely enjoyable.

I would have missed out on that if I had left on impulse after my first or second death, both of which happened within the first two minutes and were quite annoying, because it really wasn’t fun until then and they were already Helis and Enemies sniping into our Spawn, but I stuck to it and voilà, turned an utter garbage Match to one of the most enjoyable I ever had.

The same principle applies in real life. Past negative experiences often cloud your perception of the future, and you automatically assume the worst when, in reality, you cannot predict what will happen.

I don’t see how it is ‘engaging’ either to jump from one Match to another without finishing any because you automatically assume the entire Match is going to be bad because of the first few Minutes, which also ruins the fun for everyone else on your Team who y’know…actually want an engaging experience and balanced Match. And so what if it continues to suck? That’s part of Gaming.

Some battles you lose, some battles you win.

When has it become so common to just leave mid-Match in Multiplayer Games? This was definitely not the case years ago; people joined in and stuck to it, tried their best or played for fun but remained in the Match regardless if it was a loss or not. If I’m being honest, it really sounds more like an ego/sensitivity issue to do this in an MP game. And from my experience with dozens of other MP games I’m playing from all across the board, be it RTS, shooters, beat 'em up, etc., that is also always the case…

That + the Points i have already listed above in my other Comment(s) / Original Post.

2 Likes
25

Spawn your premium vehicle once, die, leave before you get spawcamped, waste time playing TT vehicles, get revenge bombed, flanked, your team leaves and a plethora of nonsense.

Imagine trying to play the game and be rewarded with this.

https://new.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1da25w5/hope_everyones_grind_is_going_better_than_mine/

2 Likes
26

I get what you mean here, and I share mostly the same thoughts as you do.
The problem I can think of here, is that you can only play the vehicle you want to play a maximum of two times. This is especially the case if you do not have a good lineup to support those vehicles, nor if you are trying to grind a new tech tree with a premium vehicle. Crew levels also affect the enjoyment, as why would you want to play another tank with level 1 crew, if you can simply leave the match and play with a better one?

If there was a way to play a vehicle you want to play as many times as you want in a match, I think there would definitely be more engagement in matches.

27

Large amount of what the ai said is buzzwords. Everyone knows early exits are bad. Not much will be done about it in a while (check the roadmap).

28

I remember day when I used lineups and I do not miss those painful scenarios. Having just one tank lineup have more pros than cons for me so there is no reason why to move back to lineups.

Pros

  1. I do not have to deal with CAS
  2. I do not have to deal with spawncampers
  3. I do not have to play maps I do not like for long - just yolo rush, die and move to next battle
  4. I do not have to witness teams throwing games away often by pushing spawn and getting wiped out
  5. I do not have to upgrade multiple crew slots
  6. I do not have to play tech tree variant of premium vehicle I own at all as why to even bother stock grinding it
  7. I no longer care about victories that decreased frustration from game

Cons

  1. Making mistake on maps I like sometimes stings
  2. I had to reroll some battle pass task as they are not good for ODL
  3. When I play with friends, where I use lineups for them, other crew slots are not that good - fortunately I play mostly solo
  4. Some vehicles are not useful on all maps so it can get tricky to play them

Simple fact, that with one tank lineup I do not have to care about CAS and spawncampers outweighs any cons. I have much more fun playing game with one tank lineup than I had with full lineups as I can get only bombed once per battle and not multiple times.

4 Likes
29

Yeah I think that’s accurate.
I mean I personally use lineups and stay to the end of matches unless being spawncamped, but seeing how 99 out of a 100 times it’s a waste of time I don’t know why I bother anyways.

I don’t blame anyone for doing it either because it’s how the game is designed, it’s the optimal way to play and that exact same playstyle is what they’re selling in the store and what has ruined large parts of the game.

30

Why don’t you elaborate on it?

Just saying ‘Doesn’t make sense’ or ‘a large amount are buzzwords’ is not explanatory.

Besides that, a lot is written by me personally. As I have already stated, I only use ChatGPT to correct spelling/grammar mistakes and to explain some points better or articulate them in a better way.

The vast majority is written by me personally. I just go to ChatGPT, copy it into it, and ask it to correct the text.

Like I already made a similar post months ago, which I wrote without ChatGPT, and you can take a look at how that looks. It’s just a mess of a giant wall of text that no one even read, and nothing came out of it.

Well, probably nothing’s going to come out of this anyway either, can discuss, suggest, criticize, or whatever anything, and nothing ever happens…feels amazing.

31

Many of the reasons are not tied to rewards, but this commonly overlooked thing called fun. Also, it depends on the goal of the player entering the matches.

I’ll start with the goals first. If I join a 10.0 game to grind my Bradley and I lose my Bradley then there is not necessarily a reason for me to stay in that game. Yes, I could make the most out of that game spawning my LAV-AD and watching the skies, but waiting the entire game and having the possibility for no aircraft to be present is not fun or productive. If I could spawn again in my Bradley without needing paid backups (I know they can be aquired by other means, but they aren’t SL purchasable) then maybe I would stay in a game because my goal is still attainable, progressing the vehicle I want to. Gaining 6k rp and SL (ground isn’t where I go for SL anyways) with a premium in ground doesn’t help me spade my TT vehicles and just speeds up the aquisition of other vehicles TT vehicles to spade.

Fun is tied in to the goals part a bit, but has it’s own problems. If my goal is to progress a single vehicle and I can’t do that, my level of enjoyment suffers because I cannot work toward my goal. Along with that, dying because you’re the only one on your team that spawns on one side of the map isn’t fun. Going along with 14 other players to the same side of the map to do virtually nothing because you’re not fast enough to cap the point or can’t get into position to make a kill because there are so many teammates in the area isn’t fun. Driving for long periods for a decent position to die to have to make that long drive again isn’t fun. If I can’t have fun, why would I stay in a game? For RP rewards on vehicles that don’t need rp (premiums) or to get another vehicle that I don’t quite want to play yet? Progressing singular vehicles/spading is my motivation to play, and when I can’t play a vehicle more than once or twice in a game, then I don’t want to stick around.

If course everyone’s goals and reason for playing are different, so addressing why people leave early is difficult. What makes me leave isn’t what causes everyone to leave.

32

Sure, i’ll use your favorite tool for this so you get the best understanding that you want.
The text above, while thorough, can be criticized for being overly verbose, filled with buzzwords, and ultimately unnecessary for a few key reasons:

  1. Redundancy and Over-explanation:
  • Both the counter-points and the responses to them repeat the same core ideas using different words. For instance, the need for balancing player freedom with collective experience is reiterated in multiple points with slight variations. This redundancy adds length without adding substantial new information.
  1. Buzzwords and Jargon:
  • The text is filled with buzzwords like “player autonomy,” “competitive integrity,” and “strategic depth.” While these terms sound important, they often obscure the simpler underlying arguments, making the text less accessible and more pretentious.
  1. Obvious Statements:
  • Many points state the obvious. For instance, acknowledging that unavoidable circumstances exist or that creating a fair system is complex are self-evident truths that don’t need extensive elaboration.
  1. Unnecessary Complexity:
  • The text introduces unnecessary complexity by suggesting intricate systems to differentiate between habitual and occasional early leavers. In reality, simpler solutions could be more effective and easier to implement, such as longer cooldown penalties or reward-based incentives without the need for complicated algorithms.
  1. Lack of Practical Solutions:
  • Despite the lengthy discussion, the text doesn’t offer practical, straightforward solutions. Instead, it dances around ideas without committing to actionable steps. For example, it suggests a combined approach of incentives and penalties but fails to outline what specific penalties or rewards would look like.
  1. Circular Arguments:
  • Some arguments are circular, such as suggesting that measures to prevent early exits should focus on rewarding positive behavior while simultaneously saying that these measures should not solely rely on positive reinforcement. This circular reasoning doesn’t advance the discussion.
33

You do realize that:

  1. Is not a response to the Original Post points but to another comment which obviously repeated the points because i gave counter-points and then counter-counter points which obviously repeated itself at this point.

  2. The horror of calling it ‘player autonomy’ instead of ‘player choice/freedom’ - the only word I would agree on is ‘competitive integrity,’ which sounds obscure.

  3. Not really obvious… saying those are obvious kind of supports my points and is rather directed against you / Gaijin for making people point out obvious things because apparently it is not so obvious.

  4. ‘‘such as longer cooldown penalties’’ - this is not a simpler solution. ‘‘reward-based incentives’’ is literally one of my points.

  5. That is up to Gaijin, and it already suggests practical solutions.

  6. That is not really circular. Rewarding positive behavior / reward-based incentives can be implemented without solely relying on those. It just states that it shouldn’t be the only thing. How is that circular?

34

Because we already have all the rewards in place so all youre doing is going in circles other than making up new rewards that people don’t care about

  • the ai agreed with me on everything so youre obviously wrong.
35

It’s funny how less of an issue this is in top tier or the moment you unlock SAMs in general, but the Su-25SM3 and the Gripen are my most hated CAS planes in the game, easily the most OP and difficult planes to deal with.

36

I spawn the Type 81 and I die all the time regardless because I’m unable to spot a singular grey pixel somewhere in the sky 8km away… or because the missiles just decides to slam into the ground.

37

Or allow players to spawn a tank twice before having to use a backup. Ever since the change to the Warbond store to merge with the battlepass season, the rate to acquire free universal backups has dropped significantly.

3 Likes
38

This is what I’ve also suggested, a second spawn for all ground vehicles.

Spoiler

This would go a long way to deal with the one death leaving issue in my opinion, as regardless of your reasons and motivations, an extra spawn in the same vehicle is going to be worth it, effectively working like a backup, but the ones available in the game not sustainable.

People who are farming using a premium vehicle do not want to respawn in a TT vehicle, likely don’t even have a competitive TT vehicle, and even if they did, it’s a waste of time.
People who want to spade a vehicle also do not want to spawn in a different vehicle.

People just want to play their favorite vehicle or a vehicle they just unlocked, instantly dying in them is just frustrating and people will leave so they can use it in a different game instead of wasting 15 minutes just to get another attempt.

Backups are your only way to achieve this, but having to spend thousands of warbonds every month sucks, and you really don’t’ get that many of them to sustain you for hundreds of games, and quite frankly what is the point when you can just leave the game and join a new one for free?

An added bonus of this is that it effectively doubles the amount of vehicles in the game, minor nations that struggle to make an effective lineup suddenly get double the options, or Germany at top tier that hasn’t gotten a new tech tree vehicle in years since the 2A6 was added in 2020 would finally be able to field 4 top MBTs.

Japan at 5.7 would at least be able to use the M4A3 twice, maybe alongside the M41 and now get 4 spawns instead of only 2, across the board you’re massively increase your options and in game you also increase your strategic options by having more choices.

This also doesn’t hurt premium sales as it adds value, backups still maintain it’s use by being able to get a third spawn out of it so no harm there.

Alternatively this can be used for balancing purposes, overperforming vehicles like the 279 could be limited to a single spawn, reducing it’s effectiveness without changing the BRs, and just as much could add an extra spawn to the worst vehicles in the game when a BR change isn’t feasible because Gaijin still refuses to decompress anything.

So tl;dr an extra spawn would reduce ODL, add value to vehicles and premiums, add balancing options and fill out lineups for minor nations.

1 Like
39

1 death leave can actually solve most Daily missions/Battle Pass missions/mission points faster.
So yeah, I’m playing this game like Escape from Tarkov
Leave after achieving your goal

You can’t force a player to play a game he doesn’t want to play
As long as I don’t like a map or team or no hope of victory, no matter how much reward or punishment you give me, I will choose to quit.
Because players only want to play the part that interests me And just want to solve the Daily missions/Battle Pass missions/mission points quickly
Especially when I want to play a tank game instead of a dodging aerial bombing game I will leave in a heartbeat
Even if you force me to stay in the match
You can’t stop me from pressing alt+f4, right?

40

Could be an Idea as well.

I for once would love however if they at least try some things out - maybe they work, maybe not - but how to tell when nothings ever done in the first place?

41

Nope, I can’t.

But:

  1. To me, that kind of seems a bit egotistic.

  2. They could allow players to replace leavers in ongoing matches, which is something (almost) every other multiplayer game does as well, where you have team vs. team for obvious reasons.

Especially in something like Halo Infinite or XDefiant, many people leave mid-match when they die a few times in a row, and sometimes you get even worse people rejoining, and sometimes you get insanely strong players joining in (usually on the enemy Team of course).

But at least it makes the match even again because, as stated in my original post here in WT (Number 1 & Number 2), it very early on creates an uneven and unbalanced match, not necessarily due to the vehicles, uptier, or whatever, which are things that can be worked around most of the time, but something like a 5 vs. 14 after two minutes?