I disagree about it being 10.3, even though I really want to.
10.55-ish after decompression is the best bet.
I don’t want to punch poor Hunter FGR.9 bastards and some other flareless jets in 9.3.
F-100D would have no chance against me.
GR.4 at 11.7 with a pair of 9M sounds diabolical.
Because the current GR.1 is at 11.7 with a pair of 9L. (GR.1 should’ve 11.3 if we think about WTD61, though)
Anyway, why don’t we just get back on track to the discussion about AV-8B(NA)??
with aim9m and good pilot I wouldn’t think it would be so horrible But even then you are in higher BR like a lot of plane will catch you So it’s inevitable and you lose a lot of speed if you touch your stick a little bit let alone trying to dodge multiple people Trying to get a free kill Or they think that
Yes and no. Its wierd. Its sits in this spot where you always get uptiered which should be really bad… but… you avoid the worst of the base bombing premium spam. So base bombing is much easier than in the 11.7 Tonkas.
And then people just ignore you thinking you are just a free kill Tonka only to eat a Aim-9M.
Dont get me wrong. I think it probably should be 12.0 alongside the Mirage F1 and there is a dozen buffs the Tonkas could get, but its not something im fretting about currently. I’ve got bigger fish to fry like BOL fixes, decompression and ARB overhauls.
But back to the AV-8B(NA) though, I think its fine at 11.3 compared to whats above and below. Just needs fixes
it has max kill of 1 or 2 max after that what you have you will be literally aa 9.0 br plane in turm of performance a lot of 9.3 to 11.3 will catch you and can do everything better then you so 10.3 isn’t that also both hunter and f100d are faster so the can evade you and pounce On You When do you feel they have a solution Yes I know it’s not going to be like that in an actual game because not everyone is competent So I could see your point
no no I agreeing with this and it’s a tornado with 2 9M it’s not like it’s lighter it’s faster its just the same tornado with only 2 9M in 11.7BR where they are expecting missile so they will flare if they saw a diamond popping on them and maybe you’ll get one killed And then after that every plane in that we are will out perform you Maybe some plane lock speed but other than that it’s a done deal
Sure, remove its AIM-9Ls and it can be 10.7.
Don’t use 100% throttle.
If you’re not flaring R-60s, do better.
The fact it’s subsonic is why it’s 11.3 instead of 12.0 or 12.3 in the case of F-20A.
yeah, about AV-8BNA my conclusion is it deserve to go down BR not to 10.7 as a starter it could be tho but it will be a somewhat busted plane like j7D in term of kit no flight performance so the most common sense i could see for now is to drop it down to 11.0
Its a legit issue.
If your airspeed is low, you cannot flare a rear-aspect R-60M fired from 3km, not without spamming dozens of flares and throttling to idle. Even then… its 50/50.
Heat signature issues are a major problem for the Harriers due to their inverted thrust curves, they gain more thrust at lower airspeeds (though this is actually wrong, they should barely loose any thrust at higher airspeeds)
The issue is the Sea Harrier FRS1 and AV-8S (Late) at 11.0 already. Same general loadout of 4x Aim-9Ls, but far weaker in terms of FM, gun performance, engine performance and even CMs in the FRS1 case.
Being 11.0 would be extremely unfair on both of them.
Predicting reply: send them to 10.7
(and it will be extremely unfair to either A-10A or A-7E)
removing 4 aim9l automatically make it a 9.3 plane in term of performance with maybe 4 aim9g it could be 10.0 /10.3 so with this being in mind aim9l being all aspect and still have the same range but has a higher G load Deserve a higher BR to 10.7/11.0 so on this conclusion It’s not out of the picture to be at 10.7 but this will make it another somewhat busted Good kit missile plane like the j7D at 10.7 now so 11.0 is the most balance And deserving BR
r60 if your plane is hot and you do not cut your afterburner, and they are close range they still ignore flare play like an F5 a lees hot plane can flare them consistently and without an issue But for other hot planes it’s not the case not using 100% is more of a reason to be at lower pair because you will not use your full power so what’s the point being force to using only 90% or 80% of your engine power And F-20 doesn’t relate to AV-8b na as its better airframe and carry 6 9l or aim7
not r60m only for somewhat a normal r60 dose the relook thing if you don’t cut your afterburner and fly straight
but this is the problem they all are overtired So what we gonna do We need to look at all the planes performance it’s not just here it’s at higher BR too some plane’s are perfectly fine some planes are overtired some others are downtier that’s the thing its not just one or two or five planes it’s a lot of them
No.
AV-8B(NA) & Harrier T10 vs most 11.3 and 11.7s is fine.
Some of what is at 12.0 is fine for them to see.
The issue is what they face at 12.3, they should not be doing that at all.
What is needed is a decompression. Spacing things out and moving the stronger stuff up. So in a full uptier, you’d only face the mid strength 12.0s? but mostly what is at 11.7. The AV-8B(NA) and Harrier T10 would be fine, pretty strong even. Couple with even a handful of the outstanding bug reports for them… they would be very good
f5e j7e mig23mld will all outperform the av8b at all but some aspects and f4e can force av8 because it has radar missiles so will have an advantage not in plane itself but because of missile kit so All in all because this is AV8b discussion I would say it deserve 11.0 in a current game setting 10.7 is more busted side but yeah 11.0 should be fine for what av8b offer it will not be too strong Or two week And as you in a full up tier it will face strong planes but will be capable in a certain aspect to beat them
Absolutely not. It’s undertiered.
I could not give you my thoughts and experience that led me to this conclusion because this is not the F-18 discussion But yeah, it’s in a bit overpowered in a certain way but still fine with this br
Have you tried using thrust vector/VIFF? It can really help tighten up your turns and pull ridiculous shots that you otherwise couldn’t have. It should be used in moderation of course, and if you go too hard with it you’ll be hanging in the air and extremely vulnerable to third parties. In 1v1 though you can beat basically anyone, as long as they stay committed and don’t run away/boom and zoom you.
Now I’ve not flown the AV-8B NA, but I’ve got 500 games in AV-8B Plus. Other than the missile loadout and the BR, the gun and airframe is basically the same. You claimed that without missiles the Harrier II is basically a 9.3 airframe and I have to disagree.
The GAU-12 is IMO the best gun in the game, I prefer it over M61 Vulcan. The 25mm rounds hit harder, go faster and reach further. I also think the Harrier II is pretty good flight performance vise, for an attacker. The acceleration is good, the climb rate is good, it turns fairly well (even better if you VIFF). The only real flaw is the low top speed which allows the enemy to dictate the engagement. They can leave whenever they want and you can’t catch them.
IMO the real issue isn’t the plane itself but Air RB in general. Others have already mentioned BR compression and how the NA can’t go lower without overshadowing other subsonics, I agree completely. There’s also the Air RB meta that is completely biased in favor of fighters. Attacker and bomber players are viewed as second rate and have to pick up the scraps. Subsonics like Harriers struggle to do even this as supersonic fighter bombers always beat them to the bomb zones.
Overall, I think the AV-8B (NA) is fine where it is. It’s not perfect, but most of its struggles come from the state of the gamemode and BR compression, not the aircraft itself. Dropping it to 10.7 would only create bigger problems than it solves.
Oh one last thing, please excuse this shameful plug
Just move the Shar and Bucc down then. If they can’t be lowered, then then just accept that they’re bad planes and shouldn’t dictate balancing. This isnt complicated.
So, you are pushing Shar down for buff AV-8B down?
Absurd.
If we apply that ‘cascade type of buffing down’, it will be nothing but a clusterfuck level of ‘further compression’.
Just like how
-‘good supersonic fighters’(MiG-21SMT as example) sent supersonic interceptors down.
-and supersonic interceptors sent the F-86 series down
before.
In the name of ‘it is unfair that we see them’
Yes, because it is the easiest way to create new compression.
Sending F-86A-5 down to 8.0BR was an insane idea.
Laughable deduction.
If you really believe that this is right, how about
[Just accept that A-7 and AV-8B are bad planes and shouldn’t dictate balancing]?
Every plane should dictate balancing.
But not in a way of sending bad planes down.
Keep the bad planes in place (unless it is in b-66 level of badness)
and Nerf the good planes upward.
decompressing the BR.
This isn’t complicated.
You have essentially argued that BR balancing should not exist. This concludes the debate on your side, as your premise has become self-refuting.