Challenger 2 needs to be brought to developers attention

Hey folks,
I’m writing this as an open letter to the Developers, Moderators, Community Managers and any other relevent Gaijin employees on behalf of any concerned and disgruntled members of our community. Please take a moment to read and support if you can:

The Challenger 2, across pretty much every source you can find, is touted as perhaps the most well-armored and well protected MBT currently in use by an armed forces. With such feats as suriving a total of 70 RPG impacts, never being lost by its operating country and only once by Ukraine with no crew injury, the tank is a modern marvel of crew survivability and protection with a kill to loss ratio of over 200:1

That said - The implimentation in game, is quite a far cry from the mobile bunker we see in real life, and I believe the Game Developers are unaware of how underwhelming and inaccurate the their representation of the famed British MBT is.

I believe the list of issues below or the state of CR2 in general needs to be addressed in a developer Q&A and some kind of reassurance that the tank is going to be worked on, and its problems fixed. The inaccuracies, how easy it is to kill, how poorly it handles - it should at least be spoken about to give some acknowledgement that the issue exists and is being looked into, soon.

A full list of issues with the implimentation, I can think of right now are:

  • Transmission and as a result, neutral steer currently is worse than CR1
  • The Gunner and Commander sit too high, exposing themselves above the strikeface of the turret. This shouldn’t even be possible to be that high.
  • The mantlet should have higher KE and CE protection than just being hollow
  • The ammunition racks to the left of the driver, and behind the drivers seat have no evidence to justify their existence beyond CR1 having them. They are not physically possible in CR2s driver compartment.
  • The ammunition should be stored behind the driver to his left and right shoulder in large metal bins.
  • The UFP is too weak currently and needs far higher CE and KE resistence
  • The LFP is too weak currently and needs far higher CE and KE resistence
  • On Challenger 2F and TES, the side turret NERA bricks should have higher protection
  • On Challenger 2F and TES, the LFP addon armor should be FAR more protective than what it is
  • On Challenger TES, The side skirt ERA should be ASPRO-HMT with 84mm KE and 1800 approx CE EXCLUDING the composite screen and hull
  • On Challenger 2F, the NERA side skirts should have far higher protection than 400/30, and should be closer to 650/60
  • Challenger 2 should be faster to accelerate
  • Challenger 2 should keep its momentum in turns (regen steering)
  • Challenger 2’s cheek armor should be practically impenetrable, much like Abrams

The state of the tank is absolutely aggregious and has been left in this state for ages. We need some kind of communication, reassurance, or even acknowledgement by the developers that this is an issue. anything. This tank is supposed to be the reason you grind. The reason why you pay money to research the tree. It’s the end “reward” and it’s a broken, useless mess.

Alot of CR2 is made up from complete guesswork which i’ve proven in my topics on TES and CR2 in general to be extremely false. It needs to be revisited by the developers and looked at again with all the bug reports and topics the community has made on this.

We’ve shown we care about this game enough to dig through archives, do weeks of research and get you our sources and proof to make the game better. We’ve worked with your technical moderators and followed your processes to get the issues and inaccuracies reported. We want to support War Thunder and Gaijins goal in creating the most accurate representation of these vehicles seen in a video game. So work with us! Communicate with us and let us know if this problem is going to be fixed in some kind of statement. For many, this is a complete let-down and needs some comment. We love your work and your game, and we want the best for what it is you’re trying to create, so reach out, discuss this issue with the community or at least make some kind of statement, however long or small, to tell us if this is going to be fixed.

Given that the developers speak Russian, here’s a translated post for you via Google Translate (sorry I don’t speak Russian) that hopefully makes sense to the development team:

Эй, ребята,
Я пишу это как открытое письмо разработчикам, модераторам, менеджерам сообщества и всем другим соответствующим сотрудникам Gaijin, как человеку, который хочет помочь этой игре достичь своих амбиций. Пожалуйста, найдите время, чтобы прочитать и поддержать, если можете:

Challenger 2 практически во всех источниках, которые вы можете найти, рекламируется как, пожалуй, самый хорошо бронированный и хорошо защищенный ОБТ, который в настоящее время используется вооруженными силами. Благодаря таким характеристикам, как выдержка в общей сложности 70 попаданий РПГ, ни разу не потерянный страной эксплуатации и только один раз Украиной без травм экипажа, танк представляет собой современное чудо живучести и защиты экипажа с соотношением потерь к потерям более 200: 1

Тем не менее, реализация в игре довольно далека от мобильного бункера, который мы видим в реальной жизни, и я считаю, что разработчики игры не осознают, насколько разочаровывающим и неточным является их представление знаменитого британского ОБТ.

Я считаю, что приведенный ниже список проблем или состояние CR2 в целом необходимо обсудить в вопросах и ответах разработчика и как-то заверить, что над танком будут работать, а его проблемы будут исправлены. Неточности, как легко его убить, как плохо с ним обращаются - об этом нужно хотя бы говорить, чтобы дать какое-то признание того, что проблема существует и в ближайшее время будет рассмотрена.

Полный список проблем с реализацией, о которых я могу думать прямо сейчас:

  • Трансмиссия и, как следствие, нейтральное рулевое управление в настоящее время хуже, чем CR1.
  • Наводчик и командир сидят слишком высоко, выступая над ударной частью башни. Это даже не должно быть настолько высоким.
  • Мантия должна иметь более высокую защиту KE и CE, чем просто полая.
  • Стеллажи для боеприпасов слева от водителя и за сиденьем водителя не имеют никаких доказательств, подтверждающих их существование, кроме наличия их у CR1. Они физически невозможны в отсеке водителя CR2.
  • Боеприпасы следует хранить позади водителя, слева и справа от его плеча, в больших металлических контейнерах.
  • UFP в настоящее время слишком слаб и требует гораздо более высокой устойчивости CE и KE.
  • LFP в настоящее время слишком слаб и требует гораздо более высокой устойчивости CE и KE.
  • На Challenger 2F и TES боковые турельные кирпичи НЕРА должны иметь более высокую защиту.
  • На Challenger 2F и TES дополнительная броня LFP должна быть НАМНОГО более защитной, чем она есть на самом деле.
  • На Challenger TES боковая юбка ERA должна быть ASPRO-HMT с 84 мм KE и примерно 1800 CE, ИСКЛЮЧАЯ композитный экран и корпус.
  • На Challenger 2F боковые юбки NERA должны иметь гораздо более высокую защиту, чем 400/30, и должны быть ближе к 650/60.
  • Челленджер 2 должен ускоряться быстрее
  • Challenger 2 должен сохранять динамику в поворотах (регенеративное управление)
  • Щечная броня Челленджера 2 должна быть практически непробиваемой, как у Абрамса

Состояние танка абсолютно агрессивное и стоит в таком состоянии уже много лет. Нам нужно какое-то общение, заверения или даже признание разработчиками того, что это проблема. что-либо. Этот резервуар должен быть причиной того, что вы гриндите. Причина, по которой вы платите деньги за исследование дерева. Это конечная «награда», и это испорченный, бесполезный беспорядок.

Большая часть CR2 состоит из полных догадок, которые, как я доказал в своих темах о TES и CR2 в целом, являются крайне ложными. Разработчикам необходимо вернуться к нему и еще раз просмотреть все отчеты об ошибках и темы, созданные сообществом по этому поводу.

Мы показали, что заботимся об этой игре достаточно, чтобы порыться в архивах, провести недели исследований и предоставить вам наши источники и доказательства, чтобы сделать игру лучше. Мы работали с вашими техническими модераторами и следили за вашими процессами, чтобы сообщать о проблемах и неточностях. Мы хотим поддержать цель War Thunder и Gaijin — создать максимально точное представление этих машин в видеоиграх. Так что работайте с нами! Свяжитесь с нами и сообщите, будет ли эта проблема исправлена ​​в каком-то заявлении. Для многих это полное разочарование и требует некоторых комментариев. Нам нравится ваша работа и ваша игра, и мы хотим лучшего для того, что вы пытаетесь создать, поэтому свяжитесь с нами, обсудите эту проблему с сообществом или, по крайней мере, сделайте какое-то заявление, длинное или маленькое, чтобы рассказать нам, если это будет исправлено.

Thank you very much for reading,
The community





The tanks are in such a state it’s infuriating.


+1 for whatever that will do

Such an interesting tank that is modeled so incredibly poorly not only from unverified data, but also from information is known to be objectively true and can be proven by official information and images

Ill keep holding out hope but its been a long while since we’ve seen drive train or composite armor changes on a top tier MBT, especially one that is allegedly preforming as well as the Challenger 2’s are stats wise


Honestly I’m fine if they want to keep the Challenger 2 trash mobility wise, that’s life, but if that’s the case it requires its armor, that’s really the important part. If we can’t have everything due to balancing stuff it’s life, but for god’s sake I’d like the tank to require people to actually aim on it. Also adds something unique about high tier British stuff, okay, bad mobility? Well you get armor to compensate.


There’s a lot of tension, entitlement and silence between the Developers and the playerbase, and I don’t think resorting to insults, call-out posts or anything of the sort will fix the issue. We’re playing this game because we like what the developers have made and put their passion into, and some of us pay money into this game or do extensive research (sometimes both) to support the ambition this game tries hard to achieve.

The developers obviously care about what they’re making, and have shown that they’re a group of passionate creators. But this problem has persisted and the community have been trying hard to steer the Challenger 2 specifically, back on course but to no avail.

I wrote this post with the intention of it being seen by a member of the development team, or by one of our community managers, who can relay the message that yes, the team have heard our concerns and that they’re working on it to be fixed soon. Some kind of message or communication from Developer to Customer.

We won’t make progress and this game won’t be nearly as successful, if we don’t work together and communicate with one another. As developers, you’re a part of our community too, not an outside force detached from the rest. We want to involve you in our discussions, talk about the game’s future, help with improving it and voicing our concerns. But it has to be a two way conversation. This bug report sitting on “Acknowledged” for months with no human interaction does nothing but dishearten your customers and serves to only divide the community and developers further.

We play this game and you develop it, all for the same reason - We’re passionate about this. We care about the game, its ambition and direction. We wouldn’t be here if we didn’t. So I wrote this, hoping it gets seen and someone comes along and can talk to us, even just a PR message to let us know what’s going on.

Perhaps @Smin1080p or @Stona_WT , if such a thing is even possible, can relay this sort of message to the developers to start some kind of dialogue, or reach out for a comment?


Here will be a few things from myself, i will keep updating it over time.

Internal mantlet mountings (2 cylinders that would go into the holes in the armor are not modelled, causing loss in armor value.



In the UFP armor there exist a giant dark blue plate that is not counted to the armor value.


(Light blue 50mm, yellow 200mm, dark blue nothing, light blue 80mm)

Side internal and external armor have wrong values.



Plate at the top of the UFP of the TES and 2F with 2F modification should be 50mm RHA, it is 25mm structural.



Missing 20mm RHA back-plate behind NERA block in 2F.



All Challengers 2 except 2E should have ability to upgrade their engines to Perkins CV12-9A producing 1500hp at 2400rpm

When looking to the side, gun elevates too soon, causing major blind spots.


Jamming station on top of the 2F and TES does not work in game. IRL it is used for jamming mines and anti tank missiles (probably wire guide missiles).



MCS Barracuda on the 2F and TES does not work, should lower or erease tank radar and infrared signature.



Enforcer remote controlled weapon station sould be mountable on all Cr2 and have a choice in between 7.62mm, 12.7mm mg and 40mm automatic grenade launcher.


SelexEnforcer.pdf - Google Drive
7.62 2
12.7 2


+1 Please communicate with us on things like this.


The funny part about this is that according to Staff Requirement (Land) 4026 the UFP is actually overperforming, and should be nerfed to 350mm vs KE and 650 CE.

I dunno how you can think that the LFP is underperforming… it has no composite, it’s just a basic steel plate.

  • The mantlet should have higher KE and CE protection than just being hollow

This point can be summed up with: ‘balance’, Leopard 2s are currently sitting at less than half their actual mantlet protection and also get the double whammy by having an additional spall modifier so that they’re easier to kill.

Same applies to all other NATO MBTs fyi (apart from the spall modifier).

  • Challenger 2’s cheek armor should be practically impenetrable, much like Abrams

Again according SRL 4026 the requirement was set for 500mm KE and 800mm CE over a 20° arc, with a growth potential to 600mm KE and 900 CE along (this would actually a be nerf compared to the current Challenger 2).

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Also L27A1 lack anti ERA tip and penetration.


Amazing work as always Legwolf!

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This thread is 100% going to end up getting locked because somebody will leak CH2 classified documents to prove Gaijin wrong. Can’t wait. :D


We are not going at this again, right?

Lucky i’m not in the British army

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International Defense Review 1990 vol 23 issue 9
On the right side, 25 lines from the bottom

Regarding the mobilty of the challenger.

I am convined there is something very wrong with their transmissions as modelled.

There is almost a delay when using the tanks, they feel like they’re stuck in glue sometimes. Heaven help you if you try to manouver at low speed, you’ll be stuck at about 3kmh while it tries to turn. When you do manage to get up to speed, if you turn a big you lose a huge chunk of your speed.

There is a stark difference between the t-72AV and the challenger 2. The t-72AV has a hp/weight ratio of 18.1 while the challenger 2 has 19.1. Yes, the challenger 2 has much more weight, but it also has lots more HP to compensate. Inertia etc. obviously plays a role, but the difference in manouverability, especially at low speeds is stark.

I am convinced if the transmission was actually modelled correctly, the challengers would be much more pleasant to play.


Yes, not only it has wrong number of gears (8 forward, should be 6, 4 revers should be 2), their ratios and selection times are made horribly, hindering mobility greatly.

Official Transmission datasheet.


Inertia is the main culprit behind tanks losing agility at lower speeds, compare a Leopard 2A6 to the M1A1 HC (they’re only like a ton apart), but Leo 2s inertia values are twice as high, and in turn its manouverability is much worse at lower speeds.

This was reported years ago, but Gaijin basically told us; “you have no idea what you are talking about” and ignored the issue :)

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It’s a shame that Gaijin will only make fun of the British players as clowns. The copied and pasted Russian tanks are more powerful than most tanks in the UK

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I wonder if the reason the tanks feel so awful to drive, is these gears.

If you try the challenger 2, it changes to 6th at 17kpm, 7 at 26 and 8th at 38. Lower gears go past like a blur.

What this means, is when you’re turning, the tank stays in higher gears and slows down like crazy.

I get why they did it, they are trying to make the tanks more reactive at low speed however I think it cripples them at mid to higher speed. It also means you hit a wall of acceleration at around 38kph and the tank has to accelerate to 59 in a single gear and makes them feel awful.

The glue thing I think comes from the gear changing delay. If you takethe tank into test drive to some grass or muddy area and do a 360 from full speed, the tank is constantly switching betwen 4th and 5th between 4 and 5kph, meaning it’s horribly sluggish and it never gets the chance to actually build up any momentum.

Just something to look into.

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