Belgian Air Forces Sub-tree

mr_boo · May 2, 2024, 4:09am

Would you like to see a Belgian sub-tree in-game?

Yes, to France
I would rather have a BeNeLux tree
Yes, to another tree
No

0 voters

Belgian Air Forces sub-tree

Hey everyone,

So back in February i suggested a Belgian ground sub-tree directed at France, and after it received overall quite positive feedback (even though i will reiterate – this is only in the event that a BeNeLux tree is denied which would be my first choice), an air subtree suggestion obviously had to follow, so there it is!

This suggestion is also oriented towards France for the same reasons as with the ground subtree, and even though the Belgian air force has shifted away from French equipment compared to the land component, it is still obviously linked to the ground subtree and makes more sense in France than in Germany or Britain, in my opinion.

Here it is:

Belgian sub-tree in the French air tree

As you can see, an air subtree causes less problems than a ground one since there were only 4 lines to begin with, so there is room for an extra line.

List of aircraft

Rank I

Fairey Fox IIIC

Biplane fighter from the 1930s made by Avions Fairey

Spoiler

Length: 9.09 m
Wingspan: 11.58 m
Height: 3.51 m
Wing loading: 63 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 14 s

Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Kestrel V
Engine horsepower: 640 hp
Max straight line speed: 350 km/h

Armament:
2 x 1 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
1 x 1 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Rear gunner)
4 x 1 25 kg bombs

Fairey Fox VIII

Biplane fighter made by Avions Fairey, based on the Fox VIR (which itself is basically a re-engined IIIC) but with an extra 2 machine guns and a 3-bladed Ratier propeller, slightly improving performance

Spoiler

Length: 9.09 m
Wingspan: 11.58 m
Height: 3.51 m
Wing loading: 70 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 14 s

Powerplant: Hispano-Suiza 12Ydrs
Engine horsepower: 860 hp
Max straight line speed: ~375 km/h

Armament:
4 x 1 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
1 x 1 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Rear gunner)
4 x 1 25 kg bombs

Fairey Fox VII

Also based on the Fox VIR, this single-seat version of the Fox gains and extra 2 machine guns (again!) but still has a 2-bladed propeller. Performance isn’t affected too much thanks to the slightly reduced weight.

Spoiler

Length: 9.09 m
Wingspan: 11.58 m
Height: 3.51 m
Wing loading: 70 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 14 s

Powerplant: Hispano-Suiza 12Ydrs
Engine horsepower: 860 hp
Max straight line speed: 375 km/h

Armament:
6 x 1 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
4 x 1 25 kg bombs

Fairey Féroce

Belgian-British fighter prototype

Spoiler

Length: 8.41 m
Wingspan: 10.52 m
Height: 3.45 m
Wing loading: 76 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 16 s

Powerplant: Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs
Engine horsepower: 925 hp
Max straight line speed: 435 km/h

Armament:
1 x 1 20 mm Oerlikon autocannon (Forward firing)
2 x 1 7.7 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)

LACAB GR.8

A “GR8” «bomber/reconnaissance/escort fighter» or whatever that is…

Spoiler

Length: 13.45 m
Wingspan: 18 m
Height: 4.5 m

Powerplant: 2 x Gnome-Rhône 14Kdrs
Engine horsepower: 780 hp each, 1560 hp total
Max straight line speed: 360 km/h

Armament:
1 x 2 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Nose gunner)
1 x 2 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Dorsal gunner)
1 x 2 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Ventral gunner)
Up to 800 kg of bombs

Renard R.36 HS.404

Not sure how to call this one, it’s an early Renard R.36 second version that does not have any machine guns, only the cannon in the nose for an interesting gameplay!

Spoiler

Length: 8.54 m
Wingspan: 11.64 m
Height: 2.9 m
Wing loading: 120 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 15 s

Powerplant: Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs
Engine horsepower: 910 hp
Max straight line speed: 505 km/h

Armament:
1 x 1 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.404 autocannon (Forward firing)
8 x 1 10 kg bombs

Rank II

SABCA S.47

A Belgian-Italian joint project for a fighter-bomber reconnaissance aircraft. The aircraft made in Belgium was made by SABCA. And the one in Italy by Caproni, known as the Ca.335 Maestrale.

Spoiler

Length: 10.6 m
Wingspan: 13.2 m
Height: 3.2 m
Wing loading: 136 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 18 s

Powerplant: Hispano-Suiza HS 12Ycrs
Engine horsepower: 860 hp
Max straight line speed: 501 km/h

Armament:
1 x 1 20 mm Hispano HS.404 autocannon (Forward firing)
2 x 1 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
1 x 1 7.62 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Rear gunner)
2 x 50 kg bombs in internal bomb bay, and 10 x 10 kg bombs carried under the wings

Renard R.36

Fighter prototype made in 1937, its performance rivalled that of the early Spitfires and surpassed the Hawker Hurricane!

Spoiler

Length: 8.54 m
Wingspan: 11.64 m
Height: 2.9 m
Wing loading: 120 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 15 s

Powerplant: Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs
Engine horsepower: 910 hp
Max straight line speed: 505 km/h

Armament:
1 x 1 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.404 autocannon (Forward firing)
4 x 1 7.7 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
8 x 1 10 kg bombs

Renard R.36 Second version

The second version had an improved Hamilton Standard propeller, a slightly larger rudder as well as an improved cooling system.

Spoiler

Length: 8.54 m
Wingspan: 11.64 m
Height: 2.9 m
Wing loading: 123 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 15.1 s

Powerplant: Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs
Engine horsepower: 910 hp
Max straight line speed: 505 km/h

Armament:
1 x 1 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.404 autocannon (Forward firing)
4 x 1 7.7 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
8 x 1 10 kg bombs

Hurricane Mk.I H-34

One of the few Belgian license-produced Hurricanes fitted with 13.2 mm FN-Browning machine guns

Spoiler

Length: 9.6 m
Wingspan: 12.2 m
Height: 3.96 m
Turn time: ~15 s

Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Merlin II
Engine horsepower: 1030 hp
Max straight line speed: 505 km/h

Armament:
4 x 1 13.2 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)

Rank III

Renard R.37

Fighter prototype based on the R.36 re-engined with a Gnome-Rhône 14N21 engine.

Spoiler

Length: 8.4 m
Wingspan: 11.64 m
Height: 2.9 m
Wing loading: 123 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 15.1 s

Powerplant: Gnome-Rhône 14N21
Engine horsepower: 1050 hp
Max straight line speed: 527 km/h

Armament:
2 x 1 13.2 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
8 x 1 10 kg bombs

Renard R.38

Fighter prototype based on the R.36 re-engined with a Rolls-Royce Merlin II engine.

Spoiler

Length: 8.54 m
Wingspan: 11.64 m
Height: 2.9 m
Wing loading: 130 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 16.2 s

Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Merlin II
Engine horsepower: 1030 hp
Max straight line speed: 545 km/h

Armament:
4 x 1 13.2 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
8 x 1 10 kg bombs

Renard R.40

Unfinished fighter prototype made for the French air force, it was 70% completed by the time of the German invasion and was almost identical to the R.38 apart from its pressurised and ejectable cabin.

Spoiler

Length: 8.54 m
Wingspan: 11.64 m
Height: 2.9 m
Wing loading: 130 kg/m² - Est. Turn time: 16.2 s

Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Merlin II
Engine horsepower: 1030 hp
Max straight line speed: 545 km/h

Armament:
4 x 1 13.2 mm FN-Browning machine guns (Forward firing)
8 x 1 10 kg bombs

Rank IV

Spitfire LF Mk 16

Belgian Spitfire operated after the Second World War

Spoiler

Length: 9.12 m
Wingspan: 11.23 m
Height: 3.48 m
Turn time: 19.8 s

Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Merlin 266
Engine horsepower: 1720 hp
Max straight line speed: 651 km/h

Armament:
2 x 1 20 mm Hispano Mk II autocannons (Forward firing)
2 x 1 12.7 mm M2 machine guns (Forward firing)

Spitfire FR Mk 14e

Belgian Spitfire operated after the Second World War

Spoiler

Length: 9.12 m
Wingspan: 11.23 m
Height: 3.48 m
Turn time: 17.4 s

Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Griffon 65
Engine horsepower: 2035 hp
Max straight line speed: 719 km/h

Armament:
2 x 1 20 mm Hispano Mk II autocannons (Forward firing)
2 x 1 12.7 mm M2 machine guns (Forward firing)

Rank V

Gloster Meteor NF.11

Night fighter Meteor used in the 1950s

Spoiler

Length: 14.8 m
Wingspan: 13.1 m
Height: 3.96 m
Turn time: ~23 s

Powerplant: 2 x Rolls-Royce Derwent 8
Engine thrust: 16 kN each, 32 kN total
Max straight line speed: 970 km/h

Armament:
4 x 1 20 mm Hispano Mk V autocannons (Forward firing)

Gloster Meteor F.8

Gloster Meteor used after the Second World War

Spoiler

Length: 13.26 m
Wingspan: 11.3 m
Height: 3.96 m
Turn time: ~23 s

Powerplant: 2 x Rolls-Royce Derwent 8
Engine thrust: 15.35 kN each, 30.70 kN total
Max straight line speed: 956 km/h

Armament:
4 x 1 20 mm Hispano Mk V (Forward firing)

Avro Canada CF-100 Mk 5

CF-100 Canuck used during the late 1950’s and early 1960’s.

Spoiler

Length: 16.51 m
Wingspan: 17.42 m
Height: 4.42 m

Powerplant: 2 x Avro Canada Orenda 11
Engine thrust: 32 kN each, 63 kN total
Max straight line speed: 888 km/h

Armament:
2 x 29 70 mm Mighty Mouse fin-folding aerial rockets in wingtip pods.

Rank VI

Hawker Hunter F.6

Hunter F.6 used in the late 50s and early 60s, this one having been painted for the “Red Devils” aerobatic team

Spoiler

Length: 13.98 m
Wingspan: 10.26 m
Height: 4 m
Turn time: ~23 s

Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Avon 203
Engine thrust: 45.13 kN
Max straight line speed: 1160 km/h

Armament:
4 x 1 30 mm ADEN revolver cannon (Forward firing)

Alpha Jet 1B

Belgian Alpha Jet with a 30 mm DEFA gunpod but with less bombs.

Spoiler

Length: 13.23 m
Wingspan: 9.11 m
Height: 4.19 m
Turn time: ~30 s

Powerplant: 2 x SNECMA Turbomeca Larzac 04-C5
Engine thrust: 13.24 kN each, 26.48 kN total
Max straight line speed: 1000 km/h

Armament:
5 hardpoints:
Fuselage hardpoint:

30 mm DEFA gun pod

Inner wing hardpoints:

750 lbs BLU-1CB napalm bomb
600 lbs BL755 cluster bomb
500 lbs Mk 82 Snake Eye bomb
250 kg bomb
4 x 1 FZ49 rockets

Outer wing hardpoints:

500 lbs Mk 82 Snakeye
250 kg bomb
External fuel tanks

Rank VII

Dassault Mirage 5BA (1970)

Belgian version of the Mirage 5. It is like a Mirage 5F but with slightly worse missiles.

Spoiler

Length: 15.55 m
Wingspan: 8.22 m
Height: 4.5 m
Turn time: ~28 s

Powerplant: SNECMA Atar 9C
Engine thrust: 60.8 kN
Max straight line speed: 2350 km/h

Armament:
2 x 1 30 mm DEFA 552 autocannons (Forward firing)
2 x 1 AIM-9P air-to-air missiles
Unguided rockets and bombs

Dassault Mirage 5BA (1976)

Later Mirage after an update taking place from 1972 to 1976, it received a radar jammer and a countermeasure dispenser among other things, something the Mirage 5F doesn’t have

Spoiler

Length: 15.55 m
Wingspan: 8.22 m
Height: 4.5 m
Turn time: ~28 s

Powerplant: SNECMA Atar 9C
Engine thrust: 60.8 kN
Max straight line speed: 2350 km/h

Armament:
2 x 1 30 mm DEFA 552 autocannons (Forward firing)
2 x 1 AIM-9P air-to-air missiles
Unguided rockets and bombs

Dassault Mirage 5BA MirSIP

Improved Mirage 5BA with added canards and CCIP.

Spoiler

Length: 15.55 m
Wingspan: 8.22 m
Height: 4.5 m
Turn time: ~26 s

Powerplant: SNECMA Atar 9C
Engine thrust: 60.8 kN
Max straight line speed: 2350 km/h

Armament:
2 x 1 30 mm DEFA 552 autocannons (Forward firing)
2 x 1 AIM-9P air-to-air missiles
Unguided rockets and bombs

Rank VIII

F-16A Block 1

Belgian F-16A Block 1.

Spoiler

Length: 15.06 m
Wingspan: 9.96 m
Height: 4.9 m
Turn time: ~16 s

Powerplant: Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-200
Engine thrust: 106 kN
Max straight line speed: 2178 km/h

Armament:
1 x 1 20 mm M61A1 Vulcan rotary cannon (Forward firing)
Hardpoints for air-to-air missiles, guided bombs, unguided rockets and unguided bombs.

And that’s about it!

Unfortunately, the uniqueness does go down as we progress through the ranks, but that’s simply a consequence of modern jet fighter programs being more and more expensive to develop, with only the US, Russia, France, China and maybe some united european nations remaining as major jet fighter developers.

Now there are a few aircraft that i didn’t include because i felt like they didn’t add much to the tree, such as for example the Renard R.32, Brewster B-339B, F-84 or Mirage 5BR but feel free to discuss those in the comments!

(Big thanks to @super_cacti for letting me use the vehicle descriptions from the BeNeLux suggestion, make sure to check it out too!)

Thanks for reading!

panzerknoef · May 2, 2024, 8:13am

The impending arrival of the F-35A to the Belgian air force makes this a potentially very useful subtree option for France.
France does not have any gen 5 options of its own, so getting a Belgian F-35 could resolve this issue. Don’t think gen 5 will be added anytime soon, but it might still be something to keep in mind.

mr_boo · May 2, 2024, 8:59am

Fair point, but i have no idea when it’d be implemented and at what BR so i didn’t include it yet

bristrees · May 2, 2024, 10:27am

I’d personally prefer a BENELUX tree, but would be satisfied if either Belgium, Netherlands or both ended up as a sub-tree of France. I’d prefer to see France get Switzerland as a sub-tree if it had to get a sub and BENELUX become a full tree. Alot of the unique Swiss fighters around tiers 3-4 are of French origins.

Godvana · May 2, 2024, 10:38am

+1 For France, since I don’t think a Benelux tree should come to the game. It would certainly make grinding the French tech tree more interesting.

Mathll · May 2, 2024, 1:18pm

For my part it’s a big no, the French tree is the only minor tree in the game which is not yet polluted by planes from other nations, it is a tree which is unique and which has not need to have a high tier F-16 to be playable.

I would rather be for the addition of Belgian planes in the French tree if they are linked to this one (for example the Mirage 5BA, the Alphajet), planes from other nations could be put in another tree where they have their place (the Meteors and Hunters are English planes, we put them in the English tree).

If Gaijin continues to add subtrees without consistency in the already existing trees, the trees will lose their meaning, we already have the Italian tree which has lost all its meaning with the Hungarian tree, we do not need let it happen again in the French tree

EDIT: adding Belgium to the game doesn’t bother me, it’s the way of doing it that worries me.

Mathll · May 2, 2024, 1:23pm

What would make grinding the tree more interesting ?
(This is a real question, I would really like to know what interesting things this tree could bring, all planes have counterparts in the French tree)

Godvana · May 2, 2024, 2:08pm

Well, maybe a controversial opinion but for me it would give the opportunity to play some British vehicles without needing to go through the British tech tree.

It would also introduce some unique vehicles in the lower ranks which is always nice.

mr_boo · May 2, 2024, 2:10pm

I hear you, but it’s not like the French tree doesn’t already have planes like the Seafire, F-84 or F-86, there’s no reason why the subtree should be 100% pure as well

Godvana · May 2, 2024, 2:11pm

Though I will say that I don’t think the additional Alpha Jet is necessary, especially because it would be the same BR as the French one but slightly worse. It would work better as a premium.

Mercenario54 · May 2, 2024, 2:21pm

I don’t see anything interested to add Belgium to the game at all
There are faaar much better options
(no hate intended)

Mathll · May 2, 2024, 2:23pm

Yes but strictly speaking these planes, France used them. What makes me want to play France is to play French planes (or used by the French army),

For me, what makes a tree attractive for research is the fact that its vehicles were used by this country, that there is a story behind it. Adding an F-16 to France erases the fact that the country has always wanted to have a certain military independence since the end of the Second World War.

mr_boo · May 2, 2024, 2:55pm

That’s why i put it as a premium :)

Sorry to hear that, most unique stuff Belgium has are ground vehicles, but it’s not like there’s nothing interesting at all, i find you a little harsh there

mr_boo · May 2, 2024, 2:58pm

Okay, but no one forces you to play the subtree’s vehicles, that’s not the point of a subtree

Godvana · May 2, 2024, 3:05pm

Ahh, so it is. I didn’t see the popout for the whole tree.

Mathll · May 2, 2024, 3:40pm

But in this case why not stop the system of search trees by nations and instead make a global tree in which you can search for all vehicles, the original interest in having different nations in the game was to have planes different in each country

If in the end all the countries have the same planes, there is no longer any point in trying to climb the different trees, today you climb the Italian tree and you obtain the main vehicles of 3 of the main countries in the game

AquaUselessGod · May 2, 2024, 4:00pm

ever heard of a useful line up?

Mathll · May 2, 2024, 4:19pm

I find the French lineup very correct, the style of play is different from other nations but if you need an F-16 in all countries to perform well it’s quite sad

For the planes I don’t see where anything is missing (maybe we can say that planes are missing for the CAS in rank 5)

Oshida_BCF · May 2, 2024, 4:29pm

>French
>lineup
>very correct

hmmmm

Mathll · May 2, 2024, 4:32pm

Find me a place in the tree where a type of plane is missing. You have at all Br (except rank 5) combat, interception, CAS and bombing planes, the majority of people who complain about the planes of the French tree are complaining because they expect play a country like the USA or the USSR with 12 planes per rank, and easy gameplay

it’s sure that if you play a Mirage III like you play a Mig-21 or an F-5 you’re not going to have fun