Yes, but at the same time it’s not some immense pressure. You need to take action, but once you do, you will be fine.
You will lose position and be at a disadvantage, but the AIM-54 itself isn’t OP. It just happens to suppress the only advantage MiG-29 has. MiG-29 is just bad.
Imo the bigger problem is that Russia doesn’t have a heavy fighter like Su-27 at 13.0, but an Su-27 with 6 R-27ERs with reduced multipathing would be too strong at 13.0.
I already stated what I would change, so I won’t dump another wall of text.
This is an issue of snowball effect and small maps. Possibly insufficient AA defenses too, but SAM sites would require more thought put into it, so you can’t just abuse it and escape every fight using them.
It isn’t the cause for imbalance, it is it’s consequence.
Also U.S. planes will always have more players than they theoretically should have, based on how good they are, because of their popularity. If all planes were perfectly balanced, people would still pick an F-14, 15 or 16 over MiG-29 or Su-27.
you are ever so slightly adding more variables to the original argument. Since the discussion with both you and @cercata has been civil so far (minus the now blocked dude) and i would like to keep it that way, i am going to assume you are just expanding on what you originally said and not changing the goalpost as many others often do.
Yes, I agree with your point - AIM-54 put pressure onto the enemy.
But the pressure is not as high as to completly deny advantages of R-27ERs, due to limitations of the missile. 17G pull of AIM-54 is just 2Gs more than AIM-7C/D. And ive heard literally no one calling those missiles good. I already explained that during the mock fight i was able to crank all phoenixes, even with such outdated piece of tech as SPO-15.
AIM-54s put deadly pressure onto you only if you ignore the rather loud beeping of your RWR. which is often the case with zombers, but thats separate issue.
At such highly advantageous position, you dont even need AIM-54s or AIM-7F/Ms. Even DF sparrows would be deadly.
Put MiG-29 with R-27ERs in the same position and those same freshly spawned guys are also dead.
One thing cercata actually had a point i couldnt counter is this:
Because, in order for enemy to launch his phoenix against me, he needs to spike me. Even if its for few seconds in order to launch AIM-54 and have it fly towards me in IOG, i still got the beep on my RWR so i know there is something and its approximate direction.
HOWEVER
if im getting spiked constantly by search radars, even friendly ones, It will be much harder to discern whenever im getting spiked at random by team mate or F-14 in TWS mode.
EVEN THEN, once the AIM-54 goes pitbull, i will be notified that ive been hardlocked and as such I can take defensive measure.
That assumes the F-14 doesnt immidiately follow up with AIM-7s, which werent part of the original argument, because the original comment that made me join the discussion ever mentions only AIM-54s:
or the F-14 doenst go nose cold and ambushes me from a closer range.
Which is, coincidentaly, what happened during that one of the mock dogfights i had during which phoenix nearly managed to shoot me down, and only by me going quickly full defense and chaffing it didnt connect.
I am not adding more variables. My very first reply to you mentioned that the F-14 can carry a good mixture of Aim-7F and Aim-54.
The Aim-54 is on a platform that is also qualitatively better than basically every other 12.3 aircraft in the game outside of the Mirage 2000.
Moving the Su-27 down to 13.0 would be more balanced than having the F-14A at 12.3 BR.
This issue already happens on the largest maps possible due to poor design.
And keeping the game imbalanced in favor of USA players is one of the biggest reasons that they are as popular as they are. Look at what happened with Su-27 vs F-15 introduction; the Su-27 was made into a missile bus and the F-15 was made into a dogfighter. And now the F-15 sits at a lower BR in both Air RB and Air SB.
F-14A has weaker engines than F-4J, while being heavier. It has the same RWR as F-4J. It also has AIM-9Hs, a copy paste of AIM-9Gs, which F-4J carries.
F-14A should have a lower BR than any other gen 4, it’s noticeably weaker than F-14B and other gen 4s. Tech-wise it even feels like it’s closer to F-4J, even the paint job shows it. It has 20% less thrust than F-14B (or F-14B has 25% more), and F-14B should be lower than Su-27, which deserves to be a 13.0 after some adjustments.
MiG-29 is worse than F-14B and F-16A/ADF, but should be buffed, instead of being moved down to 12.3, next to F-14A. As I said earlier F-16 ADF should be 12.7, it’s worse than F-15A and F16A and ADF should have the same BR.
I don’t get why are you even upset about this, when there’s no bracket where 12.3 is on top.
The issue is that even the biggest maps are small.
Majority will play the best planes, but some will play their favourite nation regardless.
If you had 10 players, and U.S. and Russian planes were perfectly balanced, 6 of them would pick USA and 4 of them would pick Russia. To make it an even 5/5 split, Russian planes would have to be like 10% better.
Yes I know. I can’t speak for others, but at least I expected the exact opposite and got very disappointed once I got to top tier. I think both sides were disappointed here, F-15 fans wanted to do some BVR and Su-27 fans wanted to dogfight, do some cobras and shit. F-15 fans were complaining about R-27ER (myself included), while Su-27 fans were complaining about Su-27’s bad flight model.
The F-14A has more thrust at high speeds and less thrust at low speeds. The airframe is also lighter so the maneuverability between the two is a wash.
I am not upset about it.
I am more just annoyed at USA mains consistently insisting that every single plane that they have needs to be the absolute best for its battle rating bracket.
USA has had better top tier planes than USSR for over a year now.
The F-15A is much better than the Su-27 in Air SB. It is the best 13.0 plane in the game outside of French F-16A with Aim-9M and Jas-39A.
Of course in the game there has to be balance, no one reasonable is asking for F-22 vs Su-27s. However, perfect balance is impossible. If perfect balance is impossible, it makes sense that the slightly better nation should be the one that is being handicapped the most to be balanced.
It would be dumb if U.S. planes were average or bad, while irl they are the best, and have it covered up by the need for balance. There would be neither balance, nor… not historical accuracy, but let’s say historical vibe.
Right now Russian planes need a buff to something. In my opinion the buff should be such, that the spirits of all of these jets would be kept true to reality.
Don’t reverse history for a still unbalanced game.
And USSR had superior weapons, whether it’s air to air missiles, SPAAs or CAS.
Before you say anything, AIM-9M isn’t a better missile than R-73. They are equal, but have different use cases. AIM-9M is better for medium range. In a dogfight R-73 is better, it’s the flight models that win dogfights for the blue team. You could argue that AIM-9M is better in most situations, but those situations are created by a better flight model.
You could say that F-15A was the better plane before the multipathing change, now it’s not the case. Su-27’s offensive capabilities would be unmatched at 13.0. The only thing it lacks in that regard is scan speed.
There are players that are asking for all sorts of things to buff the USA tech tree in the form of things like the F-22, Aim-174b, and ECM options. That is in addition to attempting to nerf the R-27ER which has been an ongoing bellyache since it was added.
By and large the USA playerbase wants to have the game absolutely hold their hand and they flip out whenever someone has something that is mildly competitive.
It would also be dumb if US planes were afforded advantages that they would not have IRL and in a way that alters the tactics they would prefer.
And yet the F-16A does not have an AoA limit and it doesn’t have a G limit. At the same time the MiG-29 had it’s flight model gutted with the MiG-29 SMT update and never received R-73s. The same thing can be said of the Su-27 flight model also being inaccurate.
The F-15A also completely outclassing anything Russian in a dogfight ends up being a completely arbitrary buff.
The jets do not perform to reality and they don’t even over perform in the same way that Western jets do in War Thunders pseudo-reality.
I am speaking strictly of Air EC. I do not play ground so I do not care about CAS or SPAA.
The Aim-9M is straight up better in most cases for playing EC. Having a missile that is totally invisible to most players is a huge advantage. And the suspension tracking IRCCM is also more useful against planes that have a lot of countermeasures.
If you had actually played red side in the last patch you would realize how obnoxious and broken planes like the Gripen were that completely negated the R-73 just by turning on periodic flares.
Multi-pathing by and large still works on most maps. It is actually by and large the preferred method that red team players are forced to use in order to defeat radar missiles. Just notch bro doesn’t work when sitting in the notch is the perfect aspect for an Aim-9M shot.
Worst case scenario for the Su-27 at 13.0 is that the average US player would be forced to learn how to defend from an overwhelming onslaught of missiles that is the norm for red side players to have to deal with at top tier.
In reality it wouldn’t even be that bad because a lot the maps are flat and if the western flight models win if things get to the merge.
But we can’t have that. The game needs to be rebalanced by removing the R-27ER and ensuring that USA has the best planes and weaponry in every possible BR bracket.
No, the argument always was to remove R-27ER or at least add AIM-7P. The rest is your personal beef with U.S. mains, no one takes people who want F-22 right now seriously.
They removed the G-limiter for the F-16, because they didn’t implement it for any other plane, F-16 was the only one suffering from this.
G-limiter can be turned off on most planes, on F-16 it officially can’t, but it may be classified. The G-limiter’s goal is to reduce maintenance cost. The plane wouldn’t fall apart if it hit more than 9G, but it would be damaged over time and repairs would be needed. I bet that in life or death situation the pilot can turn it off even in an F-16.
The Russian flight models should be buffed, the problem is that there is only linear drag in War Thunder. Gaijin has to implement drag curves, otherwise if they fix Russian flight models in subsonic speeds, they would be inaccurate in supersonic speeds. F-16 should be unstable, but again there’s a technical limitation in the game.
If you think I’m fine with it, you’re wrong, everything in the paragraph above should be fixed. The G-limiter can be implemented for all planes in SAS dampening mode and be turned off in manual controls. However, the G-limiter is not necessary, it would be a nice addition.
It has to be fixed.
I have played against AIM-9Ms a little bit, when fighting Gripens. I was able to tell that AIM-9M was being launched at me purely off of my 6th sense, but usually too late to react. I bet with more practice I would be able to flare them reliably.
Gripen’s flares are indeed obnoxious.
AIM-9M can be flared from the side. I think it’s the only time it’s IRCCM is actually effective, from the front and rear it works more like any other missile.
You have to start flaring and then change course when it’s seeker turns off, it’s very important to start flaring before you turn. The real problem is knowing it has been launched. It’s position isn’t a problem, you can guess it’s somewhere in between you and the enemy plane.
No it’s not about USA having the best everything. It’s about maintaining some historical accuracy.
U.S. planes were designed around BVR, that’s why they have good energy retention, good radars, good RWR and good BVR missiles. Russian planes are still designed around dogfights, that’s why they have supermaneuverability, HMS and R-73.
Gaijin has pretty much reversed that for Fox 1 era gen 4s. Russians are good in BVR because of an OP missile (now less OP after the nerf) and Americans are good at dogfights, because of bad Russian flight models. It’s dumb and unnecessary. They made a sniper rifle behave like an SMG, and an SMG behave like a sniper rifle.
F-4E has a much better “BVR” missile, an AIM-7E/E2, while MiG-21s has an R-3R. MiG-21 on the other hand is more maneuverable with a better missile for dogfights, R-60/R-60M, while F-4E has AIM-9Js. I really can’t see why this dynamic can’t be continued with gen 4s, both the fox 1 era and fox 3 era.
If AIM-9M would be too strong to make Russians better at dogfights in fox 1 era, then F-15A can have AIM-9Ls only, like F-16A/ADF and F-14B, I wouldn’t really care.
Annnnd you’re done. Missiles defeated. I know sim is a whole lot harder than ARB but not being able to defeat a 15G missile that 90% of the time won’t pull 15Gs makes me question if you think AIM-9Bs are hard to defeat.
May be beeping but it’s not lighting up with missile warnings, when it does you would what you would with literally any other radar missile no? I don’t see the issue.
In terms of G overload no. And that’s what’s relevant to this discussion.
