What I meant was ‘Gaijin will unlikely willing for it’
Currently, Napalm is good for destroying bases.
I mean, Too good.
Two ZB-500 napalm weights 748kg
and Two BLU-1 napalm weights 802kg.
which needs to destroy a single base in 6.0+ match.
While conventional bombs requires to destroy a base is way heavier than them.
5 1000lb LDGP Mk.83 weights 2234kg (From Tornado GR.1 or many Western planes.)
4 FAB-500M-46 weights 2033kg (which uses on IL-28)
1 FAB-3000M-54 weights 3067kg (which uses on Yak-28B)
10 250kg SAMP Type 25 weights 2470kg (which is used in Milan)
Napalm’s efficiency is way too higher than that of its counterparts.
Lower weight gives less dead-weight when rushing to the base
which means faster arrival for guaranteeing bombing.
or more bases to destroy per sortie.
It makes the base bombers with non-napalm capability worse than the counterparts
- Regular heavy bombers or jets like F-4J(UK), F-111C/F, Tornado IDS variants for example.
And created even more of the base bombers like OP.
I meant, carrying 2 napalm on their fighter still affects quite much of flight characteristics, but not as badly as strapping normal bombs, and gives some extra space for missiles. :/
(For Example, MiG-23ML or Yak-141 also has ‘normal’ base bomb loadout as 16x OFAB-100, but that one is way heavier and needs to dispose of all 4 of the pylon without missiles but carrying 4x 100kg for each.)
Then, we see players with nearly every MiG variant armed two ZB-500 from 9.3 till 13.3.
Personally, I have concluded that base bombing and planes with good PD radar + CW seeker SARH missiles is the best method of progression for me.
(IRCCMs like Bison are decent alternatives)
Both “kills” and “base bombed” pathways have a chance of not succeeding.
For base you can simply be overtaken, or couldn’t multipath
For kills you can simply have no kills due to everyone multipathing, maneuvering etc.
By rushing to the base, it opens up both pathways, greatly reducing the risk of going back to the hangar with nothing. Sometimes I get a 7F/R-24R (or something) kill or two, sometimes I get a base, sometimes I get both.
Positioning is irrelevant for SARHs for my use case, because most people couldn’t evade in time within 10km. The only meaning “positioning” is multipathing.
Sometimes gets none.
Strapping bombs on a fighter has both pros and cons.
Pros
- You can get some extra reward by base bombing, because your fighters are faster than those slow-ass strike aircraft.
- If your plane is not unlocked, modification good enough, then bombing can be a nice detour for earning RP
(If you are not highly skilled enough, you will die meaninglessly in A2A anyway when enemies are spaded their plane, while you fly with barely made stock.)
Cons
- You need to sacrifice flight characteristics, and positions when you attempt to.
- Some planes require to sacrifice missiles for mounting bombs.
- some teammates who need some help in A2A are going to mad if you ignore their distress signal but mindlessly rearm and bombs again for better netting with higher efficiency
- will make dedicated attacker/bombers totally useless, which makes them disappointed.
(They got treated awful by Gaijin as you know, and you are taking their bowl away for you.) - You will get exposed while rushing to the base.
As I told earlier, I will disappoint, but trying not to mind when you bomb the base with your fighter.
It might be annoying to me but it isn’t breaking the rule. right?
But, if you apply your method to ‘every fighter’ without concerning the difference between them
Maybe you will face more and more denial and some extra profanity from the community.
Some planes can be good and suited for your method because it is what they were designed for IRL
- Multiroles like F-4 can be an example
while some other planes are not good enough and not suited for your method, because they aren’t designed for.
- J-7D, which doesn’t have a napalm bomb and needs to sacrifice all 4 missile pylons for the bomb
(Which makes me shudder when I saw a screenshot of it.) - or F-14A IRIAF, which is designed for fleet air-defence, and needs to sacrifice the juiciest missiles(Fakour-90) at the centerline pylon for bombing
can be an example.
Of course, We can’t force you to focus 100% on a2a with your fighter and stop steal bowls for strikers unless we kidnap you and threaten with a physical threat, and it is not right. (Either forcing you to stop, and kidnapping.)
But if you want to be better, and shine your skills every day with enthusiasm.
Maybe some day, I think you will dismount your bomb from some of your fighters. for better overall rewards per match to yourself.
Just… Some fighters are not suited enough for bombing.
Just like nearly every strike aircraft are not suited enough for dogfighting.
The queen Strongest Pilot on their way to play one of the worst F4 in the game vs one of the best 12.7 premium in the game after it get moved down to 12.0 (because US player can’t play the game)
the US ones also dont get the SUU42a/a countermeasure pod for their phantoms either
the E doesnt even get SUU7
That a massive skill issue my dear. To this day J-7D is still undertier , it is better than the mig21bis 0.3 br above it.
Ok sure but how many of you fighter basebombing didn’t just roll over and die after getting to a base, not to mention some die on the way there cause their brain only fill with “Muh base”. In the end , fighter whom basebombing are always worse cause the majority tend to cosplay a striker or a bomber
facts. the PL5/magic2 are great IR missiles and you get 4
Maybe he is trying to referring that J-7D is struggling against them ‘on a race to the base’
He bombs with J-7D because (probably) he doesn’t trust his rear-aspecting PL-5B/R.550 magic 1 which will get flared by one or two pops.
For bombing purposes only, J-7D is nearly no match against the Tornado.
Man, how can MiG-21MF with some Chinese domestic missile can beat a 4th gen low-alt interdictor which was solely designed for it? in base bombing race?
But we all know that J-7D can defeat the tornado easily in a dogfight.
This looks like you mix some things up.
At more reasonable BRs (~3.7) we have 4 Frontline maps & Poland with 3 bases - and a “killable” af.
For lower BRs:
-
I flew some years ago 140+ matches in the Ju 88 A-1 to build up crew points. My high WR of 80% was a result of coming in very late and very high and i killed the enemy airfield in those 80%.
-
In the remaining 20% the bomb load of max 1.900 kg was not enough to kill 3 or 4 bases and the airfield - the way more effective C 250 & C 500 came together with an increase of the bomb load to 2.400 kg much later.
-
There were never respawning bases and we had maps with 3 and 4 bases with a “killable” airfield.
I played today a few rounds and faced the same conditions (3 and 4 bases maps with a “killable” airfield and ended the match 2 times with an airfield kill.
But, i played also a 4 bases map in which the 4 bases respawned ( [Operation] Battle for the Rhine) so i killed 4 bases with 4 x C 250 and 10 Ground units with the remaining 28 x SC 50 until the last enemy got killed; was a 1.7-2.7 match.
So it is obvious that gaijin tries to get rid off the 3rd win condition - or they just test the player acceptance of those “revised” maps.
Have a good one!
By position i mean something like this:
I am stockgrinding kfir c10. I lack g suits to properly maneuver and have no chaff.
Map is rocky pillars:
Option 1: race teammates to drop the bomb. I might or might not make it. More often than notnby the time i make it the bases are bombed and i gave up derbys for mk82s and have heavy bombs on me i must ditch and waste. The rare times i beat the team enemy often is able to aggress me.
Option 2: i fly very wide sticking to valleys and ravines and cliffs to minimize visibility and try to ambush the enemy with derbies. By the time i arrive in this path the bases are all bombed so if i take bombs i am at a disadvantage. While i might not get a kill, i consistently survive 5 minutes over 2:30 and can get howitzer or a.i kills at least.
Do note though this conundrum seems to have come up mostly on rocky pillars, spain and pyrenes.
On sinai and moscow i might as well rush a base because i cannot hide.
The F-20 is one of the best premiums? Mate, it’s a glorified F-5 with missiles that will thrust vector for a teammate over the guy you are right behind. It’s okay at best, I’d rather pick the MiG 21bison or the Mirage.
One thing that would benefit fighters would be changes to the activity. You can dodge missiles, get maneuver kills, fly defensively and be a bait, but none of those really get you rewards, do they?
I just had a game last 16 minutes, got 1 kill, spent the whole game either chasing or being chased only to get 60% activity. Something clearly counted but idk what.
Maybe having the activity increase simply for being in enemy proximity would be a good thing?
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Activity is defined by f(score, time alive).
See this report:
observed f(score, time alive) activity%
Predicted activity% based on observations
1 kill, ignoring BR correction, is worth 450 score assuming full kill without critical damage.
With critical damage, it goes up to 450 + 150 = 600.
Looking at the data chart, there isn’t an observed entry for either 450 or 600 score at 960 seconds.
However, looking at predictions chart we find the 50%-60% band right at what you described.
Rather notably, activity is non-linear. A short match with high score is less activity than a medium-length match with high score. A medium match with high score is more activity than a full-duration match with high score.
Also, going from 1000 score to 2000 score at 10 minutes does not double your activity as you’re only increasing it by ~10%. Going from 500 to 1000 score increases it by ~30%.
The system correlates well with the sim useful actions reward system, except that one is fixed at max duration of 15 minutes for ~0.92-0.93% maximum achievable reward% for ~1050 score.
Activity has nothing to do with how “active” you are.
To give activity% for being in proximity to the the enemy requires giving you ticking score.
If they added rewards for wild-weaseling on the right side of the map in an F-16 or Gripen, dodging missiles and spamming CM to distract the enemy, i think I would cry with joy, I love doing it in the mirage 2000 but the MICAs are the only thing that really allow me to make money from doing so
Real.
More fun as well! Thrill of outplaying an enemy in a dogfight (Especially if they are playing a much superior vehicle then your own) is worth it. Its the whole reason i live for the alphajet TH. Its not even close to being meta at 10.7, but those 1 v 1s you bait F5s, mig21, mig23, phantoms, drakens and the rest into and watch them fumble every advantage they have as you hose them down with the 27mm is so good.
But its a strike aircraft and i also see people missing out and bringing bombs, and dying…
Such a shame
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One reason I bomb is because it at least gives me rewards. Firing a missile and having it flared does not give me a reward for at least trying to win.
So I agree with your idea
You would earn even more if you got 7 kills with some bases destroyed. I know a couple of planes like F-4E that can do that.
It’s not mutually exclusive.
So getting minimal score for firing a missile or evading a missile would probably do just fine to improve activity accuracy.
I see many here are bullying the topic starter, but it’s not about him. You’re fighting in the wrong direction.
First of all, there is no teamplay in random, unless it’s a squad with your buddies. Everyone for themselves. And Snail makes things worse with idiotic daily quests. What kind of teamplay do you expect in a random if, for example, John needs 25 bombers, Sam needs First strike + win, and Matt needs just 2 kills + 50% activity? Everyone will try to do exactly what they need and do it as quickly as possible. Because almost all of these tasks are absolutely uninteresting and any normal player wants to get rid of them as quickly as possible.
Fighters with bombs take targets from bombers and assault planes, okay. And, was it the topic starter who made such maps, where everyone is forced to fly in one bunch to the center? Or nerfed gunners and bombers’ survivability to zero, making most of them practically unplayable, with the exception of superlow BR with biplanes?
Look at the damage of different bombs on the bases. “Balance value”, as I heard. On the I-185 with two ZAB-50, adding less than 100 kg of weight in total, I can do more than 13,000 damage on the base, while on a fully loaded Pe-2-110 bomber with 10 FAB-100 for more than a ton of bombs I get less than 16,000 damage? And this is “balance”? Considering that the I-185 is a fighter and better than Pe-2 in absolutely all stats.
At the same time, on each new plane I upgrade the same modifications and this requires research points. The same Shvak, FAB, Hispano MK.4b, etc. Each time “new”. The same grind in a circle. It is not surprising that people want to optimize it, making their (not yours!) game easier and more economically profitable.
Take for example a Soviet EP-2 at BR 4.7, completely stock, with a low-level crew and try to spade it in a random AAB. Is the grind successful, did many of your fighters help you defend against the enemy flying at you like flies to jam?
It’s Snail’s fault that for more than 10 years there hasn’t been a normal PVE where you could upgrade stock vehicles and farm SL, normal motivation to act as a team, normal BP tasks and finally a normal matchmaker. So that newbies on stocks could play with the same, and progamers with thousands of battles with their own kind.
The fact that people bomb on premium fighters is a consequence of the problems in the game and the unwillingness of its devs to do anything about it. People tend to strive to minimize efforts, this is normal.
We need to demand from the Gaijin. Not from the players.
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