Why I bomb bases in premium fighter jets

[Mordillo66]

The overall goal in AirRB is winning the battle. 3 ways are possible: Winning on tickets, kill all enemy players, and on some maps in lower BRs destroying the AF. These maps are the only battles bombing could be usefull. But only on specific cirumstances: The team have enough bombers with enough loadout to do it in one run. A second run isn’t possible because of time limitation and af aa.
So universal tactics are only 1 and 2. For both scenarios your team need no bombers nor ground attackers except some BRs with very strong ground attackers with airspawn. Same here, you have to do it in the first run.
Above rank VI the only reliable way to win is killing the enemy team. So the team with the most fighting players has the advantage from the beginning.

If you follow this logic every plane other than fighters or capable of fighting properly is a disdadvantage to the team except the two scenarios above.

To all argueing they are only grinding: What you are doing at the end? Own a toptier jet with no clue what to do…
So learn to fight from the beginning. Sure it’s a long way, but grinding to toptier is a long way anyway.

[RunaDacino]

Getting consistent data (full base destruction) with Kfir c10 is proving annoying - teammates destroy bases before you can reach them if you sneak, or you get focused down if you don’t sneak.
It’s been honestly far less probable to reach a base so far than to kill 1 AI plane or 1 enemy player.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any other jet which, according to bomb charts, has sufficient payload for a single base AND CCIP/CCRP.

However, I did get some reasonable data with B7A2.

B7A2 “How much does 1 base give us?”

Findings.

• 3 base destructions across 3 games.
• 142% RP bonus, no boosters, premium
• 10x bomb multiplier (ergo - perfect bomb load for the base)
• 2 drops (8+2) double-tapping space

3 battles:

• 272 RP
• 307 RP
• 307 RP

272 stands out. Looking at the replay, highest BR was 4.3
In 307 RP games, highest BR was 4.7.
We were flying a 3.7 plane.

While quite a limited dataset, it shows that uptiers are favourable for bombing RP and downtiers will just make it lower.
Notably, RP per second is unaffected by whether it’s an up or downtier.

Assuming best-case scenario thus (full uptier)

We gained 307 RP for bombing a single base with a 10x score multiplier and a 142% RP multiplier. Due to the same damage to score/base destruction awards appearing in 2 different games, we’ll treat them together.

From this we can easily deduce that 1 single base, without any multipliers, should be worth…
~21.6 RP.

We’re expecting for the Kfir C10 to give us
RP multiplier: 256%, loadout: 6.3
21.6 x 6.3 x 2.56 = 348.36

Hopefully I get a set of 3 matches to check if our expected RP per base is matching reality.

Loadout used

Notably according to sim bomb charts, jet tier bases stop changing HP as you go above 8.0, so presumably uptier/downtier stops having an effect. I do not know if this applies to RB.

@Saitama_420

Current data:

SU-33 in front of me didn't finish off bases so I dropped bombs to "vulture" the bases. The drop at 4:23 minutes was a single bomb on a undamaged base. The drop at 3:20 was 8 mk82s

Hopefully I can find a full base kill before I lose my interest.

Until then, extrapolating from B7A2…

If we try to compare “destruction” credit solely -

B7A2 gave 102 credit for full destruction (10K damage).

Normalized (10x score, 142% RP bonus), we get 7.18 for 10K base damage.
Or 7.18e-4 for “1” base damage

With Kfir, we got 64 for 5373 base destruction damage with 6.3 mult and 256%.
Normalizing
3.96 for 5373 base damage
or
7.04e-4 for “1” base damage.

Looks like it’s actually extrapolatable on a 1 damage to 1 damage basis with some error.

Since then, my last match finished and there I dropped full bomb load that only got like 80% of the base.

According to sim bomb chart, 10x mk82 should kill a base. I’m doing something wrong (likely due to dying right as I drop the bomb as the enemy team descends on me to kill me).

Still.

More data

14782 damage gave us 345 RP without destroying the base.
Ordnance multiplier is 6.3, RP bonus is 256%.
Normalizing:
14782 gives 21.39 RP
or 1 base damage gives 1.447e-3 RP.

Looking at B7A2 (full uptier)

Spoiler

8892 at 10x ordnance multiplier, 142% RP bonus gives 182 RP
Normalizing:
8892 gives us
12.81 RP for 8892 damage or
1 base damage 1.441e-3 RP.

Looks like we got some nominal, working data:

Base destruction (when bombed at exactly 1 HP, 1x ordnance multiplier, 100% economy multiplier and full uptier) rewards us 7.04e-4 to 7.18e-4

Base damage (1x ordnance multiplier, 100% economy multiplier and full uptier) gives 1.441e-3 to 1.447e-3 RP.

This is of course based on only sparse data - more sparse for Kfir c10 than B7A2 as I’m less consistent with getting base kills there.

[Real_K_Soze]

@Aash_139

All I am saying is that the next phantom i see loaded with bombs, is going to eat a missile the second he loads into a game just like the dozens of phantoms before him. And I am in the right for doing so.

I rarely have seen such a prime example of self-entitlement of a subpar pilot.

Trying to educate people how to play the game “right” by team killing them is a simple case of being completely delusional regarding your role in this game.

Statements like this:

@Aash_139

You are absolutely right. Everyone has the right to play the way they find enjoyable. Personally, shooting down friendly phantoms loaded with nothing but bombs brings me great joy.

…just prove that your presence in this game is detrimental for others and you deserve getting at least a longer break.

@Stona_WT and @OrsonES :

You tried to educate players to follow the ToS with your temp ban wave for intentional team killers - you see above an example why such attempts are pointless.

Edit: Replaced “player” with “pilot” in my first sentence.

[Aash_139]

Subpar or not, just like anyone else here, I am entitled to playing the game in a way I prefer without hurting players who don’t hurt me. I am not cosplaying a vigilante nor is this an attempt to educate anyone.

My presence in the game is not detrimental to anyone who’s presence is not detrimental to my team and me personally.

Your attempt to virtue signal by pointing out how entitled and subpar I am is unnecessary.

[Real_K_Soze]

@Aash_139

I am not cosplaying a vigilante nor is this an attempt to educate anyone.

and:

@Aash_139

My presence in the game is not detrimental to anyone who’s presence is not detrimental to my team and me personally.

is actually contradicting each other and not considering that you are surrounded by minors who doesn’t know better, have no clue what they are doing or simply don’t care.

Therefore:

[GALWAYLION]

Some of us have a life outside of snorting Coca-Cola to grind War Thunder. All together, if I sat on me arse 60 hours straight, I would’ve gotten Israel done. I also doubt that you got all those countries done that fast without prior grinding.

[anastasia001122]

Please use English.
otherwise please post in :

Magyar Fórum

thank you.

[GALWAYLION]

Yeah, no problem. I was just playing around with the mate. Won’t happen again.

[MiikaLaakso]

You can go check my stats, i hadn’t touched Israeli, chinese or swedish (besides a bit of rank 2) air before grinding them, and grinding was done with a few breaks but generally maximised efficiency and some good playlists, I work a job and have a partner, plenty of life to live outside of the game.

[Aash_139]

You misunderstand once again. Perhaps you are doing so deliberately to misrepresent what I am typing. It would be my pleasure to explain it again.

I am not trying to bring “justice” to players who wrong me or my team. Nor am I trying to educate and force someone else to play in a way I prefer.

I simply teamkill those people because I feel good about doing it. My actions are justified by them actively hurting my team and me.

Your point about minors is irrelevant.

[GALWAYLION]

Good playlists is understandable. God knows we need those sometimes.

[MiikaLaakso]

@Aash_139

Your point about minors is irrelevant.

To be fair to him, the median age of war thunder players has dropped drastically since I started playing, plenty of kids in my air lobbies, especially at premium tiers

[Nick_Cloud]

It’s not people’s fault for taking such measures for grinding/tasks etc.
It’s GJ fault that they don’t have gameplay. And it’s not that ARB is a deathmatch, we make it as one because it’s more convenient to see it like this.
But yes, GJ doesn’t deliver in terms of gameplay… in ANY mode.
So , keep going for eachothers throat who is right and who is wrong… while they won’t deliver gameplay for anyone anyway, because you don’t ask for that.

[Dodo_Dud]

Actually, it is pretty simple:
We all have joined a game with Rules. These rules include not to teamkill. They don’t deny attacking bases with premium fighters. This is the status quo. Deal with those rules!

If you don’t like this, it is perfectly fine to partition for change, debate and ask for changes of the rules. It has happened before, it can happen again. But until that happens, rules are rules. Use them as you like, you are playing to enjoy yourself.

Shaming others for playing it wrong according to moi™ isn’t going to help. Much better to report those who break rules on purpose or get the game mechanics changed.

[MiikaLaakso]

Breaking news…

You actually grind faster by being a good pilot as opposed to zombing!!!
Just dropped 7 kills while listening to music and scrolling on my phone

[Real_K_Soze]

@Aash_139

You misunderstand once again.

It looks like when i see this:

@Aash_139

I simply teamkill those people because I feel good about doing it.

So from my pov you make this even worse.

@Aash_139

My actions are justified by them actively hurting my team and me.

Even if the game would be played by 18+ only and all players would have the same goals whilst playing the game there is simply no justification for intentional team kills.

I would even argue that i have a certain amount of understanding if you meet reserve tier bi-plane fighters at jet BRs or blatant cases of kill stealing, but your argumentation chain boils down to “i don’t like how others play my game” and “i feel good about team killing friendlies if they don’t have the same understanding how the game should be played”.

So even if you don’t try to educate others it looks like that we need an auto-kick after one team kill (currently 2 in Air RB) to stop you from ruining the game of others.

In any case - have a good one!

[RunaDacino]

@Saitama_420
@TIGER_TANK_1

I did my due research.

Why I bomb bases in premium fighter jets

Getting consistent data (full base destruction) with Kfir c10 is proving annoying - teammates destroy bases before you can reach them if you sneak, or you get focused down if you don’t sneak. It’s been honestly far less probable to reach a base so far than to kill 1 AI plane or 1 enemy player. Unfortunately, I don’t have any other jet which, according to bomb charts, has sufficient payload for a single base AND CCIP/CCRP. However, I did get some reasonable data with B7A2. B7A2 “How much does…

I give up on gathering more jet data because
1: Base bombing against 14.0 BVR trucks in a stock kfir c10 is suffering
2: My Google sheet indicates I have sufficient data.

Sheets:

CSV:

Spoiler

,
B7A2,
Ord x,10,B7A2 matches:,
Economy,1.42,Ord+econ: (RP / ord x / economy) O/E/damage: (RP/ord x/ economy/damage),
Kfir C10,4.3 game:,Damage,RP,Ord+econ Norm,O/E/Damage norm,
Ord X,6.3,Destruction:,8864,91,6.41E+00,7.23E-04,
Economy ,2.53,Damage:,1108,23,1.62E+00,1.46E-03,
,Damage: ,7756,158,1.11E+01,1.43E-03,
,Damage mean:,Damage stdev
,1.45E-03,1.03E-05
,4.3 game:,Damage,RP,
,Destruction:,9999,102,7.18E+00,7.18E-04,Destruction mean,Destruction stdev
,Damage:,1108,23,1.62E+00,1.46E-03,7.23E-04,7.22E-06
,Damage: ,8891,182,1.28E+01,1.44E-03,
,
,4.3 game:,Damage,RP,
,Destruction:,10000,102,7.18E+00,7.18E-04,
,Damage:,1108,23,1.62E+00,1.46E-03,
,Damage: ,8892,182,1.28E+01,1.44E-03,
,
,Kfir C10 matches,
,
,14.0 game:,Damage,RP,
,Destruction:,5473,64,4.02E+00,7.34E-04,
,Damage:,2463,57,3.58E+00,1.45E-03,
,Damage:,3009,70,4.39E+00,1.46E-03,
,Damage:,2463,57,3.58E+00,1.45E-03,
,
,14.0 game:,Damage,RP,
,Destruction:,0,0,NA,NA,
,Damage:,14782,345,2.16E+01,1.46E-03,
,Damage:,7391,172,1.08E+01,1.46E-03,

What do our findings demonstrate?

When we normalize RP gain to 1 damage dealt to a base, we discover that 1 damage corresponds consistently to

1.45 * 10^-3 RP for 1 damage pre-base destruction

7.23 * 10^-4 RP for dealing the killing blow to base with exactly 1 HP.

Now I just need someone to give me the damage values for a full base kill using napalm and with normal bomb to see if the predictions are aligned with reality.

Only plane of mine that has napalm is the P-51H and I’ve been unable to obtain a full base kill with the Kfir c10 10x mk82 before getting frustrated, so I’d welcome some jet tier base HP/damage data.

Also loadout’s ordnance multiplier would be needed as well.

[Aash_139]

There is no rule against killstealing and yet most people instinctually understand that it is wrong to do so.

Game rules enforced by the developer are not the only rules there are.

[Dodo_Dud]

There are rules like “don’t wear a hat indoor”, but these rules are not part of the law. They are rules among like minded people. But they have no authority. They may even be harmful in some cases.
But they are not the rules of the game. Only of a group of players.
You confuse moral with rule. Or with concealed self-entitlement, like when the word “steal” pops up.

[Aash_139]

@Real K Soze@live

“i feel good about team killing friendlies if they don’t have the same understanding how the game should be played”

If bringing a biplane to 14.0 in an attempt to appear funny is simply “not having the same undestanding how the game should be played”, then yes - that is my argumentation. I will teamkill his squadmates and leave the biplane dangling behind simply because it brings me joy.

I agree that one should be kicked from the game after a single teamkill. This would prevent a lot of infighting between squads at the start of the game.

Would it stop me from teamkilling those people however? Probably not.