Tornado Overhaul needed

As it currently stands. All Tornados within War Thunder are underpeforming significantly and they are all in desperate need of buffs, general improvements and actually being finished.

Tornado IDS

Battle Rating

First and foremost on this list. The 3 TT Tornados (Gr1, IDS and ASSTA1) need a lower air BR. I do not accept their justification for them remaining at 11.3 when the WTD61 & MFG are 11.0 and are identical in every respect that metters in ARB. (In fact the argument can be made that the Tornado Gr1 is the worse of the 5 IDSs because it has much weaker engines)

Counter Measure count.

The BOZ pods founds on the Tornado should have 28 Large Calibre flares and 600 chaff. Each. Their current CM count of 28, is simply not enough to effectively defend against most threats, from SPAA in GRB to IR, SARH and now ARH missile in ARB. We were waiting on the split CMs that came this update and whilst it is clearly still WIP on the dev server. The Tornado still lacks its currently missing 1200 chaff.

In addition to this count the IDSs could get 2x BOL rails for an extra 320 “flares”, whilst evidence has only be found for the RAF Tornado Gr1, they could be added to the 3 TT Tornados for the sake of balance.

Flight Model.

As it currently stands, ALL tornados have a placeholder flight model that is underperforming notably in its instantaeous turn, though overperforming in sustained turn rate. But this increase in instantaeous will help greatly in defending against incoming missiles.

Air-to-ground Loadout

There are plenty of missing loadout options for the Tornado and whilst I do strongly believe an effort needs to be made to add some of these weapons, like CBUs, HARM, etc. Im mostly going to focus on weapons already in game. First off, PGM-500/2000s should be added to Italy and Germany. This would give them a stop-gap standoff capability for their aircraft, perticuarly Germany that is lacking an alternative currently. Even if these are eventually removed and replace with something else. Additionally all Tornado IDS could get the 500lb variant of the Paveway and carry up to 5 of them. Whilst this is a small addition, it would allow the tornado to carry guided weapons without hauling a large amount of weight.

Additionally, the Tornado Gr1 can be equipped with 4x Martels added recently to the Buccaneer S2.B. These would be niche, but interesting. Also, the TIALD pod is currently modeled as Gen 1 on the Gr1, but was in reality, a Gen 2 pod.

Air-to-Air Loadout

The Tornados really need an A2A buff. They are hard to gunfight in (you really shouldnt be trying) and you only have 2x Aim-9L at a BR where most strike aircraft have IRCCM missiles and everything else has R-60/Aim-9L and SARH. This leaves you very vulnerable. The addition of Aim-9M or Aim-9Li to these aircraft would be a rather good buff and not at all unreasonable for their current BRs.

Radar

The radar is tricky, as it would need the most work, but also may have the least impact, but it still needs to come. Adding the Air-to-ground radar would be an interesting addition and add more gameplay options. There is also the possiblity that the Tornado IDS had a limited A2A radar as well, which would be helpful in SIM.

Misc

There are additional small additions that would help the IDS, such as adding extra cockpit symbology for the guidance information for CCRP. Also with the addition of Hinderburg tanks for the F3 Late, these should also be added to all Tornado IDS

Tornado ADV

A lot of the previous points mentioned apply to the ADV as well, such as the flight model but other buffs are needed as well specifically for the ADV.

Pilot Hand Control

This was a small thumbstick the pilot had that allowed them to slew the seeker head of the Aim-9 around. This would give the Tornado a limited form of HMS, not as good as the full HMS, but still a minor buff but notable buff (This may also be able to be given to the IDSs and other aircraft with this capability like the F-14)

Radar Cockpit Symbology

Whilst the IDS is missing symbology, its impact is minor. The ADVs are missing cockpit symbology for its radar. Such as the same found in the Gripen. This would be a significant buff and QoL upgrade for anyone playing SIM and is long overdue for all ADVs, but even more so now we have ARH missiles on the Tornado ADV.

BOL Overhaul

The BOLs on all aircraft were nerfed significantly a few months ago and this change has serverly hurt a LOT of aircraft, and the aircraft at the top of that list in the Tornado ADV. Whilst the burn time nerf is accurate (as BOL is not a flare) but the reduction of the luminosity was wrong (and has been bug reported already) this leaves you very vulnerable to IR missiles. Additionally the chaff effectiveness was reduced a lot as well (which was also wrong and has beeb reported) this is now significant with the addition of ARH and the need to run Chaff.

Conclusion

Even a handful of these additions would breath a new lease of life into the Tornados. They were added a year and a half ago and are still a shadow of their full potential. With many more features and capablities not even mentioned in this thread like ECM. It is time the Tornados recieved even a small amount of TLC and made into an actually viable CAS aircraft for top tier

37 Likes

image
one of the drop pods is like this not like the other one with just drop tank (495)

Yeah, F3 late gets the bigger tanks. Hoping they come to all the Tornados

ya i hope but i dont wanna explode lol

I see Tornado mentioned, I hit like

1 Like

I’d really love for these changes to be made, and maybe it will because a major nation is impacted. But said major nation is also consistently shafted in air so I’m not holding my breath.

As it stands, really no reason to use a Tornado over a harrier, which is a bit silly. Even with the limited payload of a harrier, harrier at least has a hope in hell of defending itself so you actually get to use said payload.

1 Like

still waiting for proper AShM’s for my IDS MFG

2 Likes

I’d love them for the Gr1. But yeah, the Martels on the Buc S2B barely work as well

1 Like

-11 sailors (no module damage)
-9 sailors (no module damage)
-13 sailors (no module damage)
-7 sailors (the smoke stack is slightly yellow and opaque)
sorry why did I bother using them on that destroyer?

Yeah, just better to drop a 1k on them

literally all Gajin has to do is override the vertical guidance so it actually aims for waterline instead of center of bounding box with all the masts and stuff

1 Like

That would be way too complicated at the moment

I hope the pods will be researchable for the ASSTA1, I really don’t want to go through the grind for this aircraft again (possible at a higher BR, too)

1 Like

careful there, need to keep “realistic” expectations of the devs…

1 Like

AGMs would be nice, guided bombs are absofuckinglutely worthless at top tier, even more so after we get fox 3’s. Climbing to space in that brick without radar missles of your own is a death sentence almost every time if there is any decent planes up on the enemy team. And even if there isn’t you need to climb for minutes to get out of pantsir range, and then you have rendering issues, and bomb drop time is so long its just a big fat waste of time to even bother.

AGM’s on the other hand can be used at low altitude, so you can actually evade. And you only need to look at su25m3 for how effective those can be (not fighting pantsir helps too). I think for every 50 times I die to an AGM in GRB I might see a single guided bomb death on my end.

Hi Morvran, I would like to ask, did I understand correctly that Gaijin will continue to ignore Tornado?

Probably. At least for major issues like the Placeholder Flight model. Though apparently the split CMs coming in the next major update are somewhat directly to allow for the missing CMs on the Tornado

Now whether that means they are coming this update or in the future. Is currently unknown.

but everything else… yeah probably no time soon, if ever.

Great :-( Yet they have energy and time to add premium Mig-21 for Britain, clowns.

Yep… Bison has a fully modeled HUD, meanwhile the FRS1 and FA2 still have the Harrier Gr3 placeholder HUD. Not even the tornado F3 late is getting a finished HUD. It was pretty clear where their priorities lied