The issue there is that I have seen these users, post about group chats that do organize them, and most often if you ruin their farming then they will TK you and leak your location to the enemy, if it is known that these users do this kind of stuff why are SA servers not more policed.
And a whole lobby agreeing to only PVE ruins the economy for the normal sim players because it lopsidedly affects the economy statistics that gaijin loves so much
It’s mainly a gamedesign problem.
When people get rewarded for pve stuff while getting almost nothing for risky and expensive PvP fights that’s the natural way things will evolve.
You can’t force people to fight each other when it’s way more lucrative to just ignore each other.
But PVE lobbies are fun to crash.
Had one in my Me-262-A1 today and the fireballs where glorious 😂
rofl xD
I think there is more to it than that. Yes PvP content could be improved withwise of economy and naturally PvE is “Safer” (depending on how they’ve decided to tune the SPAA for that given week) but I think there is more to it than that.
Whilst a large chunk do likely engage in PvE purely for economy reasons, there are those, myself included, that perform PvE actions because they want to do it. For me, I find great fun in Flying a Tornado Gr1 at ultra low level, using tactics used IRL. Generally avoiding the fight. On a wider note. Britain basically has no top tier PvP able jet. We are almost exclusively limited to PvE in SB. If we ever get anything better, i’ll be stuck into PvP as much as anyone, but for now, its either the Harrier Gr7 or Tornado Gr1 usually, both A2G jets primarily.
I totally understand that.
I also like to fly 1-2 bombing runs in between on treetop level, using the terrain to avoid detection and then “deliver the payload”.
It’s fun, but it becomes useless and boring a.f. when you know it’s a PVE game. Then it’s just a postman’s job and feels like work while you fly in a straight line.
Prehaps. Though there is nothing against the rules in doing that, nor against the rules if both teams do that exclusively. Only becomes a grey area when someone says in all chat “PvE lobby?”
But I fear them dealing with “PvE lobbies” by just nerfing PvE through the floor. Leaving myself and anyone else unfortunate to be playing weak PvP nations currently. Without anything to do or anywhere to go. Even worse if you do enjoy doing PvE in SB.
Zombers should be dealt with. Those that are abusive or TK should be dealt with. But I fear some in this thread want to see PvE removed from SB and that would be very bad
It’s not that… It’s the fact of players, playing the mode like it’s a PvE mode, avoiding the conflict they are supposed to be engaging in because they just want to farm
It’s like the old Heli EC where people would sit on the helipads respawning, and having the enemy come up, spam kill them, then switch sides and go exchange kills.
Again… and this has been said several times above. For some aircraft that is a legitamate tactic. In a Tornado Gr1 with 12k of bombs, am I expected to rush off cross map to join a furball against 12.3s? Hell no. Im flying in the opposite direction as quickly as I can.
Whilst some may exploit it, its important to remember that ARB is anti-CAS. If you want to play a strike aircraft or CAS jet. Like the Tornado Gr1, Harrier Gr7, Su-39, etc etc. Then SB is pretty much the only place you have. Especially if you dont want to touch the manure pile that is GRB. (and for a nation like Britain, all we have at top tier is CAS/Strike aircraft)
whilst there are those that exploit it, (personally I think the botters are far worse than the “PvE-ers”) There are also those that want to do the E in PvPvE. It is the ONLY gamemode in game that actually allows for any form of ground pound. Even at lower levels. Changes such contrails have resulted in an enviroment very much anti-bomber. If you want to play something inherrently vulnerable like the Lancaster, then SB is the best place to do it these days.
So whilst yes. Some exploit it. It is important to remember that just because someone is dropping bombs on a base, Doesnt mean they are exploiting anything at all. But maybe, legitamately want to play that aircraft doing exactly that. SB must be preserved as a PvPvE gamemode.
Nothing wrong with that.
Of course as a bomber or strike aircraft you try to evade enemy fighters.
No one expects you to fly into a furball.
And if you just do your thing and kill some bases, convoys or surveillance planes, ect., nobody has the right to complain.
As long as you accept the risk of being detected and shot down, everything is fine with PVE.
The problem only starts when people try to force PVE by team killing, reporting, ect.
As long as I can join and blow up some juicy bombers, there is no problem 😎
Zombers are a different topic and I think we all agree it’s a problem that needs a solution
Yep, totally agree.
In my opinion a PvE lobby isnt actually all that bad. Its people being Abusive, TK’ing, etc that is actually the problem when someone does engage in PvP.
But just want to maintain a voice for the “PvE-ers” in this thread. Zombers and those that truly exploit PvE do just as much to harm SB for the PvE-ers (if not more so) than they do for PvP-ers.
Like how they “fixed” the problem of aircraft like the Buccaneer S2 being used to farm in SB by giving it such a high repair cost that it rendered it virtually unplayable. Im so glad that is now actually fixed and it can be played again. But its certainly the solution they may take in the future and that would be the worst possible outcome in this. I believe that with effort, a solution could be found that would address it without being unfair on part of the community that wants the E in PvPvE
(personally I think the best would be to actually fix the gamemode as a whole. If significantly more people wanted to play SB, then the PvE lobbies would be the extreme minority and those wanting to exploit SB wouldnt be able to hide in quiet lobbies or get away with those tactics with 16 vs 16 matches with a majority engaged in PvPvE)
And this is what the thread was about… You made it everything else trying to pick and allure to there being a reason…
Right, in my opinion, a Minority. It is important to remember that just because some exploit it, doesnt mean that everyone exploits it. That is all im saying, that is all im advocating for. To not tarnish everyone that drops a bomb on a base as an exploiter.
Any solution to this problem must bear in mind that there are those in SB that play it because its PvPvE. It has that E element to it. To destroy that for the sake of stopping or mitigating, again, in my opinion, a relatively small amount of the communtiy as a whole. Is just bad. There are those in this thread so far that if I recall correctly, were in essence, suggesting they just remove any reward from dropping bombs on bases or AFs. That would be bad, maybe even worse than just doing nothing at all.
Gaijin certainly needs to work on this problem. But they need to put more effort into than they have done in the past, like whacking the repairs costs of certain bombers up so high that they were boarderline unplayable because you went bankrupt instantly.
When you’re playing your bomber/attacker and doing tasks, that’s different and very obvious.
It’s very noticable.
This is avoiding so many things such as actual identification in Sim… If they see any non-AI movement, they know to not take it on…
They don’t need bankrupting, they actually need removal, as they’ve obviously done this for long enough to be noticed.
If you are reffering to botters, Zombers, Scripters. Whatever you want to call them, Then yes, they should have been nuked from the game a long long time ago. The fact tthey are still allowed in NRB and ASB, and more recently seem to be becoming more common in ARB, is beyond me. Currently, Gaijins only solution to that problem is for the community to report them but not discuss it at all. Unfortunately I fear that because they use premiums there is a relatively low incentive to address the problem directly.
But I feel that is not entirely to the spirit of this thread which was about players forcing other players to not engage in PvP through threats, peer-pressure or TKs. Bots are entirely seperate problem that shouldnt even need to be discussed.
Nah, here you go again… Bringing everything else into it to muddy the situation.
I’m directly referring to those who join these matches, to play passively, knowing they aren’t at risk from anything other than AI, because they play the rooms like they are PvE because it’s just become ‘normal’ for a certain group of players who have shied away in these rooms, ‘flying’ but merely playing PvE…
They needed to be reported, but they were left there because people don’t understand it, and end up just following thier lead. People don’t understand the actual impact of it, let alone that the act was wrong.
It’s like if I join ground RB and call on the enemy not to shoot me as I sit on the cap, it’s not as if ‘no-one’ will shoot me, but before long, you could have an entire team on the one cap, rolling on, capping, rolling off, let the enemy cap, then repeat…
Someone mentioned seeing this sort of thing on a map a while back… 2 players, exchanged caps on a secluded section multiple times.
It’s passive play and they should be acted on, and it’s damn obvious…
But this is not against the EULA. In anyway. It is entirely legitamate if not outright required in certain aircraft, especially in certain EC cycles to actively avoid PvP. (50+% of Britains high tier aircraft fall into the category quite easily.)
A lobby full of people doing the same thing (Hitting PvE targets and actively avoiding PvP confrontations) is not against the EULA and therefore nothing to be punished.
The moment someone says something in all chat. Then the EULA is Technically broken, but only really for the person that said it (and maybe anyone else that agrees to it in writing). Just doing PvE in a lobby in which someone else said “Anyone want to do a PvE only lobby?” does not make everyone else in that lobby guilty or punishable. Even if they continue to engage in the same PvE tactics they were before.
THATS THE POINT.
Doing PvE in a match that just happens to be a “PvE lobby” doesnt make you an exploiter or guilty of violating the EULA. Even if you go the entire match without a single PvP kill.
Maybe thats just because you’ve employed the right tactics and avoided the enemy team the entire game.
I’ve done flawless matches, performing repeated sorties, and taking out a dozen+ bases in full-bore PvP game without seeing an enemy player once. Its entirely possible to do.
But what do you define as passive play in this context?
Is flying at ultra low level away from hot spots, destroying a base and then coming back the way you came count as Passive play?
Does flying at ultra high alt in a heavy bomber count as passive play?
What do you actually class as “passive play” in a gamemode like SB? Just because you arent trying to dogfight every 5 minutes in a bomber, doesnt mean you are being “passive”. I routinely take out the Buc S2. If i launch with my max bomb load, which I quite often do. I have no A2A weapons at all. Absolutely none. Does that make me a passive player? Am I expect to ram enemy aircraft out the sky if I see them?
This is exactly why I sat back on this thread, and others mentioning this activity.
You’re just muddying the waters and trying to make out that it’s not a big deal and that it’s not covered.
It is.
Then take it up with the game master that has been active in this thread;
because its not. and thats a fact
I’m pretty sure you’re trying to misconstrue a statement now.
In what way?
Engaging in PvE is NOT against the rules
Engaging in Tactics that actively avoid PvP is NOT against the rules
Letting an enemy player go for any number of reasons is NOT against the rules
Engaging in PvE activities in a lobby that someone else said was PvE only is NOT against the rules
What is against the rules though is:
There is a difference an important one. Not all who engage in “passive” PvE behaviour are exploiting the gamemode or should be punished and not necessarily all in a “PvE lobby” actually violated anything either.
There are only 3 people who should be punsihed, may be banned from WT.