Ah, fair, though even then, being able to dump a bomb load on the AF if no other targets are available is incredibly handy. Not too mention the whole Module AF thing is designed to make AFs a legitamate target. Just needs to have some form of cap to deal with the botters.
Nobody really organizes these, and technically it is just a mutual agreement from both sides of the players (or at least the majority of the players) within that PvE lobby. Punishment may be imposed only if they intentionally team kill or grief other players (at least, this is how I understand it; do not quote me on this). I do not believe that a group of players opting to do predominantly PvE content in a lobby is punishable, but as mentioned by @Schindibee they do not have the right to force others who desire PvP to do only PvE too.
Furthermore, as far as I am aware, the issue about PvE lobbies is limited to the SA server and does not really affect the NA, EU, or CIS servers. During the event, I spent the majority of my time on the NA and EU servers playing air sim PvP with no issues at all.
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But like, there is a point where this is collusion…
That’s what the issue with this REALLY is… Coordination between teams, to forgo the hostilities and avoid actively pursuing players.
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I do not see any problem with this as long as players on both sides opt to focus on PvE willingly rather than being forced to do so. The air sim is a PvP mode with PvE elements, but there is nothing wrong with somehow every player in that lobby just happens to decide to fight some AI units instead. However, if some people enter the battle doing PvP and others force that player into PvE, here is where the issue arises (at least this is how I see it and do not quote me on this).
It is similar to how some players opt not to shoot down enemy nuke bombers during GRB matches, or how some players with stronger vehicles intentionally avoid killing a weaker enemy by actively forgoing hostilities and avoiding pursuing that particular enemy player. Are those players also a concern from your perspective?
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Agreed. The only difference between both sides doing mostly if not entirely PvE and a “PvE lobby” is when someone says something in chat. The former is not against the rules and the latter whilst technically being against the ToS is not all that bad. The moment though someone uses peer-pressure, threats, TKs or similar to force someone to engage in a PvE lobby then that is where something is very bad and a problem.
If I join a random match, in a Tornado Gr1, looking to exclusively bomb bases and avoid PvP through various tactics and someone happens to say “its a PvE lobby” even if I dont say anything but just continue to do what I was going to do before I joined. Am I now violating the ToS?
Whilst “PvE” lobbies are certainly a grey area. The biggest problem is people violating other areas of the ToS like being abusive or TK’ing to “enfore” it
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That. As now stated repeatedly.
As you say, if I just “do my job” and bomb their bases, and don’t engage whatever enemy I spot on my way there, that’s perfectly fine. My job is to kill that base, and succeed to get home again to fly out again and bring the fight to the enemy in the method most suitable for my aircraft type.
If the other bomber, coming my way, is doing the same, fine! We both may continue onwards, happy we both came through without having to dogfight…
I wouldn’t even consider this PVE, but just a good tactic to survive.
But fine also, if the other guy tries to knock me out, or is actively hunting for me! Tornados got 9Limas, and it’s ok to use them if the situation arises.
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Yep, generally the only other planes I encounter are those also performing CAS and sometimes I let them go as sometimes its not worth it, but others because I feel a shred of sympathy for them. Though if I come up behind a Su-39 or something that has drifted into my gun sight without any effort, then they are just asking for it.
But there are a few on here that still believe that kind of passive (none-PvP) behaviour should be punished, and that simply is not the case.
I’m glad to see that Gaijin has sensible moderators. you have understanding (also for PvE players) and weigh up topics. Thanks for that.
Now I have another question. The national lineups and AI units urgently need an overhaul in EC Sim.
Would it be okay if I started another topic describing these issues in detail?
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I would start another topic on that. Its a big thing that really needs to be addressed
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OK then I add my mustard.
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I’m sorry, but I do, and it contradicts the EULA…
Like, we can’t just join a random match and call on people to not kill the cappers, and merely have someone go back and forth off the cap, with an enemy coordinating to let us ‘farm’ points…
I really feel it breaches 3.2.4. No circumventing or manipulating use
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The issue there is that I have seen these users, post about group chats that do organize them, and most often if you ruin their farming then they will TK you and leak your location to the enemy, if it is known that these users do this kind of stuff why are SA servers not more policed.
And a whole lobby agreeing to only PVE ruins the economy for the normal sim players because it lopsidedly affects the economy statistics that gaijin loves so much
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It’s mainly a gamedesign problem.
When people get rewarded for pve stuff while getting almost nothing for risky and expensive PvP fights that’s the natural way things will evolve.
You can’t force people to fight each other when it’s way more lucrative to just ignore each other.
But PVE lobbies are fun to crash.
Had one in my Me-262-A1 today and the fireballs where glorious 😂
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rofl xD
I think there is more to it than that. Yes PvP content could be improved withwise of economy and naturally PvE is “Safer” (depending on how they’ve decided to tune the SPAA for that given week) but I think there is more to it than that.
Whilst a large chunk do likely engage in PvE purely for economy reasons, there are those, myself included, that perform PvE actions because they want to do it. For me, I find great fun in Flying a Tornado Gr1 at ultra low level, using tactics used IRL. Generally avoiding the fight. On a wider note. Britain basically has no top tier PvP able jet. We are almost exclusively limited to PvE in SB. If we ever get anything better, i’ll be stuck into PvP as much as anyone, but for now, its either the Harrier Gr7 or Tornado Gr1 usually, both A2G jets primarily.
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I totally understand that.
I also like to fly 1-2 bombing runs in between on treetop level, using the terrain to avoid detection and then “deliver the payload”.
It’s fun, but it becomes useless and boring a.f. when you know it’s a PVE game. Then it’s just a postman’s job and feels like work while you fly in a straight line.
Prehaps. Though there is nothing against the rules in doing that, nor against the rules if both teams do that exclusively. Only becomes a grey area when someone says in all chat “PvE lobby?”
But I fear them dealing with “PvE lobbies” by just nerfing PvE through the floor. Leaving myself and anyone else unfortunate to be playing weak PvP nations currently. Without anything to do or anywhere to go. Even worse if you do enjoy doing PvE in SB.
Zombers should be dealt with. Those that are abusive or TK should be dealt with. But I fear some in this thread want to see PvE removed from SB and that would be very bad
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It’s not that… It’s the fact of players, playing the mode like it’s a PvE mode, avoiding the conflict they are supposed to be engaging in because they just want to farm
It’s like the old Heli EC where people would sit on the helipads respawning, and having the enemy come up, spam kill them, then switch sides and go exchange kills.
Again… and this has been said several times above. For some aircraft that is a legitamate tactic. In a Tornado Gr1 with 12k of bombs, am I expected to rush off cross map to join a furball against 12.3s? Hell no. Im flying in the opposite direction as quickly as I can.
Whilst some may exploit it, its important to remember that ARB is anti-CAS. If you want to play a strike aircraft or CAS jet. Like the Tornado Gr1, Harrier Gr7, Su-39, etc etc. Then SB is pretty much the only place you have. Especially if you dont want to touch the manure pile that is GRB. (and for a nation like Britain, all we have at top tier is CAS/Strike aircraft)
whilst there are those that exploit it, (personally I think the botters are far worse than the “PvE-ers”) There are also those that want to do the E in PvPvE. It is the ONLY gamemode in game that actually allows for any form of ground pound. Even at lower levels. Changes such contrails have resulted in an enviroment very much anti-bomber. If you want to play something inherrently vulnerable like the Lancaster, then SB is the best place to do it these days.
So whilst yes. Some exploit it. It is important to remember that just because someone is dropping bombs on a base, Doesnt mean they are exploiting anything at all. But maybe, legitamately want to play that aircraft doing exactly that. SB must be preserved as a PvPvE gamemode.
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Nothing wrong with that.
Of course as a bomber or strike aircraft you try to evade enemy fighters.
No one expects you to fly into a furball.
And if you just do your thing and kill some bases, convoys or surveillance planes, ect., nobody has the right to complain.
As long as you accept the risk of being detected and shot down, everything is fine with PVE.
The problem only starts when people try to force PVE by team killing, reporting, ect.
As long as I can join and blow up some juicy bombers, there is no problem 😎
Zombers are a different topic and I think we all agree it’s a problem that needs a solution
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