these players help and support each other. it is a kind of truce between the players.
it is a demonstration of the players. these people sometimes shoot not at each other but at gaijin. players as a community of solidarity against the investors and developers of gaijin!
I think your problem is that you don’t understand the reasons. it is quite simple. just ask these people why they do it!
I agree. So long as its none-abusive and people dont feel “forced” into participating or leaving. Then what harm is in it. If people are prodominantly engaging in PvE actions anyway, as its the only real way of being profitable in SB these days. Then what difference does it make
The harm is that by rigging lobbies undermines the rewards system for the rest of the community by artificially skewing rewards in sim to a much higher average than can be attained through just normal play. When Gaijin looks at sim rewards and sees that the average gains are too high they end up just nerfing the rewards across the board so that the game mode will only remain profitable for exploiters and consequently makes the game mode less fun for everyone else.
That may be the case for some. But whether its a PvE lobby or not, the amount I can generate in something like the Tornado Gr1 barely changes. I rarely get shot down because I take care in what routes I take and Im able to reliably hit 1 to 2 bases. Maintaining a very high activity time.
To be clear, I have never “created” a PvE lobby, but I have “partaken” in several. But what I do, and how I do it doesnt change, whether its an EC8 lobby where i’m an advantage, or EC9 where im massively uptiered or if its PvE lobby. I engage ground targets in the same manner and engage the same tactics to avoid enemy contacts. The only difference is if I happen to find myself in an advantageous position to score an A2A kill (which is rare). In the “PvE Lobby” I just dont fire. But i’d never actively engage in PvP in the Gr1 if it can be avoided because how much of a disadvantage im usually in.
That being said, In my opinion PvE lobbies are rare. Maybe 1/10 matches that I join are “PvE lobbies” and rarely do they last long when people start to join. PvP invetiably happens when the games go beyond 2 or 3 people per side.
what I think does far far more damage to Gaijin perception of rewards is the Kamikaze AF farmers. I’ve noticed them now in EC8/9 in aircraft like the F4S (premium US phantom) and they are the ones that I think are far more damaging because they can generate an insane amount of SLs with little effort (more often than not, I suspect many are actually bots) A4s and Su-25s have in the past been very popular for this.
From what I understand, much of the reasons why Bombers use to have insane repair costs and much of the reasons why we have such poor economy currently, Has nothing to do with people engaging in these kinds of lobbies, but rahter the farmers that exploited bombers for high SL gains in the past.
Personally I think the community showing any level cooperation is a change of pace. Usually the community can be… less than pleasant in my experience and if players feel like they need to ask for PvE lobbies to make any SLs then I think it shows just how bad the economy is in WT. Especially SB. One of the main reasons I fly the Tornado Gr1 and not the Tornado F3. Is because its almost impossible to be profitable in a Pure A2A jet like the Tornado F3
Again though. It’s how they ask for it and what they do when people engage in PvP that matters not the initial act. Of course if someone engages in PvP and they become highly aggressive like in some of the examples above, you bet your ass I’d report them/swap out to a F3 to hunt them down. But if it cordial and when PvP innevitably begins, nothing negative occurs. Then I see no harm in it.
But I think the event brings out the worse kind of people and what servers you connect to also has a big impact. Maybe i’ve just been lucky and never seen anyone react like some of the examples above. I was in one the other week and they were very charming and friendly the 3 or 4 guys in that lobby. Had a great discussion on some future jets
The people that are asking for PvE-only are not part of the sim community. The whole entire reason that rewards have been negatively skewed in the first place is that people abused a good rewards system by gaming the system.
and completely gloss over anything and everything else I said, great job.
I disagree completely. Its the botters and hackers that ruin the game far more than people engaging in PvE in the only gamemode in WT where PvE is even possible
I.E this thread https://forum.warthunder.com/t/cheating-in-air-sim/15948
I am not going to respond to everything you say point by point. It is not worth my time.
PvE-only…whether it is in the form of bots, lobbies with nothing but alt-accounts, or actual players playing the game will end up maximizing their income over time for zero risk. Spawn costs are meant to offset the rewards structure but if nobody has to pay them and everyone is meeting their activity goal for useful actions then the SL/RP gains are going to trend much higher in those lobbies than in organic PvP lobbies where there the risk and likelihood of being intercepted will not maximize income.
When 70-80% of the “players” in sim are receiving maximum rewards and the median rewards level is above what Gaijin deems necessary for a healthy economy then they revise the rewards down in order to take into account common player behavior. The players that are engaging in PvE-Only are only using sim lobbies as a means to generate rewards that they will then spend in other game modes. The end result is that the sim economy gets nerfed again and means that for players to actually play sim they have to offset their losses by playing different game modes…or by farming in Sim PvE…which will further skew rewards.
So what do you want them to do then? Remove bases, ground targets and Ai bomber waves so that the ONLY option is PvP combat? I can and have done SB games in the Tornado Gr1. Full PvP lobbies, scoring a couple of A2A kills, but 99% of the time, Im engaged in bombing bases and the odd AF. With no deaths. Because Im smart about how and where I fly ( and probably no small amount of luck as well) Im suppose to be punished for that? It’s easy to avoid dying if you play smart. Especially when you are avoiding the enemy team.
Many jets, like the Tornado Gr1 are not built to dogfight, they are meant for hitting targets within enemy territory and then getting home again.
In my experience, these kinds of PvE lobbies are very rare. At least I dont encounter them often in EC8 or 9 lobbies. But I can reliably generate a large amount of SLs regardless even in an EC9 lobby, in a Tornado Gr1, actively avoiding Mig-29s and F-16s
(That being said, I could generate 10x more in any premium, engaging in much the same acitvities, at lower BRs where radars are not as common. in those instances, Im definetly farming SLs, but I usually dont care about SLs, I fly the Tornado Gr1 for fun, not because it prints SLs)
and I know others, Schindibee included, who also often flies the Tornado MFG if I recall, I assume he often hits bases and can probably maintain a high activity time and a low death count like myself. if you employ the right tactics
you missed the whole point of this post, the issue is people that demand PVE matches and are aggressive towards those that do not listen to them, the fact in a 3 days span I was in 2 matches with the same people, and considering I have only played about 6 sim matches around that time, that is an issue if you can find people that push PVE matches like that, you can do the PVE tasks and such but actively saying “this is a pve match do not kill” is an issue
and I fly the Italian IDS, they focused me because I bombed a carrier with a plane on it and when I told them to f off when they said it is a PVE match they attacked me and leaked my location to the enemy and even TKed, and I do agree botting in sim is horrid but these people not only tried to enforce a PVE match they also did the suicide bombing runs on airfields
agree with you 100%
we have a similar method of play. you have your tornado. I like to do it a br lower. I fly with super sabre in vietnam to bomb the vietcong.
if people politely ask for PvE there is no problem. if they impudently order it I don’t feel obliged.
most of the time new people spawn again and 30 minutes later the battle is back to normal.
Gaijin executives, Gaijin developers and Gaijin investors are responsible for the content of the game itself.
If the economy is unbearable for players, it is not the fault of the players but the fault of the Gaijin people.
and if these people only look briefly at statistics without testing, then the people there are not doing their job properly.
If this is still the Gaijin flow chart, then adding things like “botting” to the in-game report dropdown this summer would seem to only increase the likelihood those types of actions are never investigated, since you say here the player ban people don’t see anything but server replays, and the in-game ban review people only can act on chat issues. Is that correct?
TOS says they have to act within two weeks of the alleged offense or the matter is considered closed, so…
I mean of the player cheating or the player being reported, because they are cheating on a daily basis so plenty of opportunity in the last 14 months.
Yup, just saying if they’re following the literal wording of their ToS then if you don’t see them on last month’s ban list they’re probably not being acted on after that.
It sure is.
Time for even more reports then, wonder how that benefits Gaijin that I keep having to report the same person over and over when they’re already not up to the task as it is, getting a dozen reports for 1 individual doesnt’ sound like it’ll improve things.
To me biggest problem is that you are not really encouraged to break PvE matches. Today i destroyed 3 bombers last one destroyed my wing at around 8 min in plane i lost ~9k sl. I did two more flights where i destroyed 2 but i simply lost SL because their bombers had one lucky hit at 1.5+ km with 23mm cannon.
I found two PVE matches in a row, one even said this
not showing the users name because that would be witch hunting, but this is the attitude these people have
Then that is the difference. “PvE” lobbies may strictly be against the terms of service, but I dont personally believe they are inherrently bad.
But people being abusive and malicous is a very different problem altogether and definetly should be punished.
2 different sides of the same coin. If I was in a lobby like that, i’d have jumped in my F3 and gone on a killing spree
But I get the impression that FeetPics is against anyform of PvE within SB, even base bombing, in a bomber in a normal match