If a sub tree or foldered tree starts at Rank I but only has 1 or 2 vehicles per rank it still shouldn’t be an independently grindable nation. Not only would it be terrible for gameplay for the player, progressing through each rank just spamming the same vehicle or two over and over and over again, it will be bad for the teammates of the players with the tiny lineups constantly one or two death leaving, and mainly it would be bad for gaijin, because it would provide a massive shortcut to top tier, which is currently the main carrot-on-a-stick that gaijin uses to drive player engagement and sell premium vehicles and premium time (I don’t care at all about this last reason, but it is perhaps the most important seeing as gaijin are regrettably the ones that run this game).
Right at that point, there is no point in making a sub-tree its own pseudo-tree, and sub-trees might as well stay as is.
Any lock will be permanent. That’s the issue, even if they start small, if they make it to the size of the tech-tree suggestions, the lock will never go away. Now, you need to spend 4x as long grinding just because you need to do so much more.
The main point is to provide a reasonable way to overcome the arbitrary 5 line limit and create more space for domestic and sub tree additions, so that the multiple nations aren’t choking each other out for room in a single tree. That remains unchanged.
That is an simply an assumption you are making about an implementation for a mechanic that, as far as we know, is not even remotely close to making it to the game.
Let’s say that in the near future Israel gets rank 1-3 introduced, seeing as that was passed to the devs several months ago. Will Gaijin still say that you need to grind to rank 4 US/UK/France to play the Israel tree? Of course not, that requirement will be removed and Israel will become like any other playable nation. The requirement only exists to stop Israel being a mega shortcut to the higher tiers for new players.
To be honest I’d say while the general UI changes would be introduced at once, the actual shift from current to reworked subtrees might happen one-by-one.
So for example on release they might make a role-model South African tree with some new additions to flesh it out, but leave others as they are until they get their own “promotion” update.
An assumption based one Gaijin patterns. Gaijin loves making the grind harder it’s a known fact.
It’s also half nation vs rank I tree. Even then we don’t know if they’ll remove it, for all we know they could keep it. But for a tree that starts at rank I from the start, what reason is there to remove the lock? None that’s what.
With it Gaijin can make it so so need to buy a British premium to grind it’s tree then a ZA premium to grind it’s tree. The lock has forced someone to buy two premiums instead of one. Removing the lock will make them less money.
Recently @FeroxTheFoxDad brought up a concern about rank progression in foldered nations.
Essentially what is meant here is that currently the game has a rank unlock system, leading a player to spend more time in each rank while progressing to top tier, rather than quickly skipping through the bare minimum of a line.
This unlock requirement is usually 5 vehicles per rank or equal to the number of non-foldered vehicles if there is less than 5 in a rank.
With foldered nations these might have significantly less vehicles, especially if this system is introduced for current subtrees that in many cases have only a handful of even no vehicles at some ranks.
Current South African Rank II with only two vehicles.
→ This would mean that these nations without additional mechanics would progress to the highest tiers of their respective trees very quickly, but lack sufficient lineups along the way.
However simply binding all other foldered nations to one “main” nation would bring back one of the issues this rework aims to remove from the current subtree system, the concept of one nation standing above others. It’s meant to be a collaborative, not authoritative.
Now I wanted to go and think of an alternative that gets rid of this problem, but @AydanL44100 was quicker than me and came up with a great solution!
This way the unlock requirement is simply shared between foldered nations. Those with enough vehicles can be played independently, those that don’t can’t (until more vehicles are added). A fair and easy solution to an otherwise complicated topic.
- “Main” Nation System
→ Ties the unlock requirements to unlocking the same rank in one decided “main” nation. Ex: Unlocking Rank V in South Africa requires unlocking Rank V for Britain - Shared System
→ Requires a fixed unlock requirement shared among all foldered nations. Ex. Unlocking rank V in South Africa requires 5 Rank IV vehicles from Britain, South Africa or India - None
→ Requires only each individual nations tree, no matter how smal. Ex. Unlocking rank V in South Africa Requires 0-5 South African Rank IV vehicles (depending on how many there are) - Other
→ Please Explain
I agree this sounds sensible. But there are currently 7 sub trees in game, with sub trees for Israel and China on the way, more nations being put into Japan etc, and other nations like Canada and Australia that would also undoubtedly be asking for the space, and the number of vehicles needed to get each tree to the level you are suggesting is easily about half of a fully developed tech tree. Getting content ready for half a tech tree is easily a years worth of effort for gaijin, so with the 7 current sub trees + upcoming subtrees + Can/Aus you are looking at between 10-15 years before each nation has received the necessary attention.
That’s true, which is also why I’m personally leaning towards additionally implementing shared Rank limits like @AydanL44100 has suggested, which would essentially mean the progression stays largely as fast/slow as it is now, but allows nations to become progressively more self-sustainable with each new vehicle added.
It’s simple but effective
Spoiler
Sorry Aydan for the unnecessary ping, I noticed too late…
No problem mate I love pings
I agree, as I have been saying from the my very first message in this thread this is the only solution that doesn’t either A) seriously compromise the player experience or B) have gaijin miraculously magic up several hundred new vehicles in the space of a single/a handful of updates.
Yep, but I already bet a ton of people will vote for the fully independent system because they have an irrational hate towards grinding and want anything that’ll make it shorter
Can I just add as well that, this would be good from Gaijin’s perspective too. More space within the tree’s means more unique premium vehicles, which means more profit for gaijin. It also splits the research for players, meaning that using South African vehicles will lead to researching more South African vehicles, and using British vehicles researches British vehicles, meaning the grind is technically faster for the player. So the players I’m sure would be slightly happier for the lesser grind, and Gaijin would be happier that they have more space to sell more premiums. They could even add a button to the bottom of the tech tree, like where they have the button that makes research go towards helicopters, that when you tick it, it pushes your research to whatever sub nation you choose for your research to go to, or push your research from the sub nation to the main one.
IE. select south African ground, tick box that says “Research Britain” or “Research India” or “Research Canada” or even a drop down list. if none are ticked, all the research using south African ground vehicles will go towards the next south African ground vehicle. if one is ticked, the research for that vehicle will go towards the nation you have ticked. That way you can use your Rooikat to research the Olifant Mk.2 or, if you don’t want it, you can tick a box and research a British vehicle like the Warrior instead.
Research right now functions much the same way it does now. Instead of the Helicopter-style checkbox (that was in my original draft actually) it simply pools the shared research into one vehicle at a time the same way it is now.
Example: Italian and Hungarian vehicles both pool RP towards the Italian Sherman
More detail:
But for a bit of an added bonus, especially as incentive for Gaijin since they could market their premiums in a non-predatory way, there’s also an added 10% RP bonus when researching a vehicle with a premium of the same operator nation.
I was also considering a similar bonus system as a permanent thing for regular vehicles too, but it might be a hard sell for Gaijin.
It seems like Gaijoob has once again chose the laziest, easiest route to “solve” the sub-tree problem.
Basically, in the upcoming update, you’re now able to switch the flag of the “research country” into any one of the operator country present in that tree, even if that country only has one vehicle in that tree.
This leads to some ridiculous situation like how you can reskin the US tech tree into Chinese or Iranian “tech tree” simply because each has one event vehicle in the US tree.
I think this a bad idea imo, since that basically shrugged the integrity of the tech tree into a huge catchall tree instead of historical relationship, since it seems that Gaijoob wanted you to simply “reskin” the tree into one of your liking instead of actually made it make sense.
I would also imagine It allows you to mess around w/ the nations that are split.
You could probably reskin Ger, US and the UK into Canada at the same time, which is a bit ridiculous.
The list should include only main country flags in my opinion.
Imagine it showed up in matches aswell, you’d have to do a guessing game on whever your fighting British Canada, American Canada or German Canada.
Can’t wait for those who support ripping nations apart to hide behind it when you support a nation getting a home… not. They’re already annoying, telling you to be happy, you need to grind 7 different trees and can’t use your tech in a line-up together.
This feels like a lazy way to go: “See, neither nation is above or below.” Well, not fixing the room issues, which is even more major.
Well that’s a fine addition but that doesn’t replace nation folders
This feature doesn’t exclude subtree rework. If subtree rework is implemented you just might be able to choose flag for each country (WWII, modern etc.).