this is a really well put together idea +1
3 Likes
+1.
3 Likes
At first I thought this was a solution in search of a problem, but I can definitely see the utility at least in some cases, where otherwise the subtree plus the normal TT might make more than five columns. +1
1 Like
Can we please already implement this. The issue of Subtrees being treated as Band-Aids for the main tech trees are getting seriously out of hand. With the issue of just pasting content to “fix” the problem like Finland to solve the lack of tanks in the Swedish TT, that simply added stuff that finland really only used in very limited quantities. Not Like They had a army based on the Stug for a while…
This has not only affected Finland but also Italy, France, Great Britain(altough most of these vehicles was actually unique to the Sub-Tree), all these nations have gotten Sub-Trees as a way to slap random stuff to ductape the hole in the white wall, and not paint over it. It sloppy and frankly shows a big amount of disrespect to the history behind these Nations that the Sub-Trees are based of.
5 Likes
Hello, Gaijin?
Why have you not implemented this yet?
2 Likes
Update: Reworked Research System
The research system proposed for the Nation Folders concept has been reworked to streamline the gameplay and prevent unnecessary complications.
The old system for research, where shared research required a checkbox has been removed in favor of a simpler, more intuitive “Shared Research” concept.
Thanks to @Noveos_Republic for bringing up the issue with the old research system
The Old “Divided Research” System
Spoiler
The Checkbox System functions in much the same way as individual trees would, letting each vehicle of a nation research vehicles from that same nation. So (for example) an Italian tank would research vehicles within the Italian tank research tab, while a Hungarian tank would research vehicles in the Hungarian tank research tab.
Using a Checkbox, a set nation can be selected to receive the total earned RP for that vehicle type. Meaning once the checkbox is ticked all research goes to the selected vehicle in the nation the checkbox was ticked in.
The issue here is that the default setting splits research and requires further input to reach the games current shared research, which is not very intuitive and will make the grind feel slower due to the divided research. Without selecting a Checkbox, RP earned with vehicles from “completed” nations would also be wasted, even if there is still vehicles from foldered nations to research.
The New “Shared Research” System
With shared research, the separate foldered nations function as one in terms of research. For each branch of Army, Helicopters, Aviation, Coastal and Bluewater, one research goal is selected across all nations that will be researched with all vehicles of the same branch used in a battle.
To make navigation easier and help players keep track of their selected research goal within another foldered nation it is displayed in the top right, next to the search bar. Here you could on a quick glance see the current selected vehicle to research, the necessary RP left to complete it and the nation it is from.
8 Likes
Maybe it’s just me and I don’t see the pros of the new “shared” system but I think the split research using the helicopter’s joint research system is better.
Tho I think it’s also how I’ve been picturing how this changes how sub-trees are treated.
1 Like
It’s simpler, allowing you to basically research one at a time the way you can now with all nations stuck in one tree.
In the old system, players with mixed lineups would run into “slower research”, since with split RP it takes a longer time between finishing research goals.
There’d also be the issue of wasted RP, since if no checkbox is selected in the old system RP is wasted if one nation has everything researched even if others in the folder don’t.
I originally only had it split to make nations feel more separate, but gameplay wise I feel like it would be more of a niche option and most players would probably get tired of checking boxes or annoyed at the percieved “slower research”.
I don’t think the simpler version takes away from nation independence, since you can still play any nation on their own and aren’t forced to use other nations vehicles, so in my opinion it seems like the better option.
But I could add a poll and have players decide, maybe with a third option to have split research be a checkbox (I wanted to include that initially, but I ran out of time to edit it)
3 Likes
I’d do a poll. See what is liked more. As both sides have their pros and cons.
I now see the slower research part, as it’s something you’d come across using an aircraft outside of air modes.
I liked the split as it helped subs feel a bit more independent, which is a big reason why I like the suggestion as being treated as if it was an independent tree is far better than currently. but I can see the other side now.
2 Likes
Poll: Research System for Foldered Nations
This is the poll on the Research System for the suggestion. It will be open for about a week, the result will decide if Shared Research stays, or if the suggestion reverts to Divided Research
What should the default Research System be?
- Divided Research
- Shared research
0
voters
Divided Research
Spoiler
Pros:
- Individual nations receive their own individual research goals
- Multiple vehicles can be researched alongside each other
Cons:
- Unlocking vehicles feels slower, as RP is divided between the nations
- When using divided research, RP earned by “completed” nations vehicles is wasted
- Cross Nation research locked behind a Checkbox
Shared Research
4 Likes
I think having split research would definitely help foster that sense of independence for a subtree, however, with the current RP gain, unlocking vehicles would be incredibly slow as the earnings of a single battle would have the be split among different vehicles of different subtrees.
2 Likes
I mean wasn’t that where the heils-shared RP system came in? (the one that was originally in use for the research part of the suggestion) How the first research system read to me was RP gain was split until you checked a box allowing all RP to go to the same place. Or at least that’s what the original research part looked like to me.
Basically, RP is split until a checkbox is clicked(with an attached drop-down to select the nation), which then all RP will go to the vehicle currently being researched in that nation.
1 Like
Definitely the shared research system. I don’t really see the need for a split system since it would force you to play vehicles you don’t want to play just to unlock one you want to. It’s also just simpler since researching one tank/plane at a time is simpler than researching 2.
The split system also prevents premiums from being as effective.
1 Like
My point still stands that the only way I support this is as an alternative OPTION for people.
If people prefer segregation, they can have it.
If people prefer everything on one page, they can have it.
Both systems require adding new features to the research page system.
This is a compromise where everyone wins and one I initially shared earlier in the topic.
If you want it in coding terms: Pages/lines are visual, and the backend is how it’s handled.
“Shared” requires the backend to be separate from the visual pages, whereas the pages are a visual representation of what’s going on behind the scenes.
Both systems require an overhaul of how research is done, as well as separation from the underlying system.
Might as well allow people to customize their visual experiences.
The issue is you’re not asking for different visuals, you’re asking for an entirely different research order.
You can’t take an entire tree, squish it into a single line and have the research order stay the same. That’s just not possible.
So once again, this is a rework, not a purely visual change. The only way I can see a shared view possible is by having the toggle you propose arrange all foldered nations trees side by side using a side scroll bar and combined premium section (since there is no premium research order).
This has its own issues, but is at least a reasonably possible purely visual variation of the Rework.
1 Like
Then you don’t want your own suggestion either.
So why make the suggestion if you’re going to oppose it when people give correct criticism?
Your suggestion isn’t visual BTW.
Please show me exactly where I said that.
I have worked in quite a few changes and improvements based on the input of other players, there’s even a currently active poll on the suggested research mechanics.
Yes, like I said:
2 Likes
Your suggestion requires the same exact overhaul that having customized research visuals would have:
Separation of the mechanic of research and the visual representation of the tech tree.
With that, people that aren’t offended by other nations being with their country can have it all on one page/window, and for your preference you can segregate the nations.
And yes, I am using the literal dictionary definitions of words in the previous sentence; no connotations.
Cause with your suggestion, or those that want more customization among their research window, both have the same solution.
So opposing the solution that your own suggestion pushes for… just cause I said it or what?
Not really. It does require a new research order, but a vehicle can still only be in one place of the research order and there cannot be a toggle to switch it around. There is no separation of research order and the visual representation, instead the research order changes by putting vehicles in their own nations.
Current Research Order
Spoiler
Reworked Research Order
Spoiler
You can’t have both at the same time, and you especially can’t have a toggle between the two without destroying the games progression.
Your problem is that you think the rework is a visual change. It is not.
4 Likes
Sir… do not lie about what people said.
As for your think, those vehicles would either get disconnected or be connected off-screen as well.
I can’t visualize it for you at this time.