Submarines - WT Discussion

Aren’t the RUR-4 (Weapon Alpha) and RUR-5 (ASROC) present on some ships in game already? Range won’t be an issue for Higher BR sub hunters especially if Sonar capabilities are modeled and so able to produce Attack solutions.

wait Type 89? as in the post war torpedo?

It 's a very interesting thing to be in the files, isn’t it ! The reason it ‘s here isnt’ totally submarine-related, though: Type 89 (533 mm) (1989) - War Thunder Wiki

Not to say it couldn’t be later, though )))

RUR-4 yes on a few ships, RUR-5 not yet - the JDS Chikugo has the launcher, but it 's not been modelled as a weapon yet.

… even though the HMS Hood has it 's far more dubiously-useful UP rocket launchers modelled …

It’ll be interesting to see what this ends up meaning, many of the ships currently ingame w/ advanced ASW weapons are at relatively low BR 's, and might well stay there even w/ the introduction of submarines - apart from the Type 143 FAC 's, most don’t have an option for weaponry to afford them the possibility of fighting larger ships than they already face w/ much more effectiveness than at present.

All I can think of when I see this is the Japanese Sub/Aircraft carrier prototype.

It seems at some point in the past three years those Type 89 1989’s were removed from the destroyer escort JDS Isuzu DE-211 since it’s now armed with the Type 54 torpedoes.

Still in terms of submarine torps at least the Type 89 1929 are still a thing which can be found on the torpedo boat Chidori.

But the Japanese sub/carrier don’t have a turret with 2x203mm :p

I need this beast

Pretty impressiv the French sub fleet for ww2, not that much aware about subs of that era, but happy to see that we could have a full TT if it’s become a thing in WT.
Sadly not as well known as the other nations that have films about them.

image

Souffleur (1924)

Argonaute
image

Prométhée (1932, Redoutable-class)

And of course, if we come to modern submarines, the latest French attack submarines displace 3 times more than the modern Uboot, while being nuclear-powered.

And each one of the French SSBN individually displace more tonnage than the entire Uboot fleet combined.

image

Whatever the era, i really hope we don’t gonna join years after the most know nations. France have totally a big place for subs, whatever the era.

5 Likes

i think around the destroyer spawn is indeed a decent location, or maybe a bit closer to the front line, as they are slower

can’t wait for the redoutable class (1500T), they are pretty fast for their era (10 knots under water is very decent)

As for the surcouf, i think one of its main advantage will be the rotating torbedo launch tubes. It gives more possibilities for attack angles / evasive maneuvers.

As for the 203mm, they can be a pretty potent “reverse uno card” against destroyers : the hunter becomes the hunted.

Oh boi, this thing has mad torpedoes, F21 is nothing to joke at (50 knots, 50km). It can launch Submarine launched exocets as well, and some sources also state it can carry submarine launched Mica missiles (A3SM). For that last missile, the sources are limited, so i’ll have to dive in to check if its really in service or just a concept

EDIT : i’m wrong about that last part : i saw the picture too fast and thought it was a Suffren class SSN, my bad.

1 Like

Nope, thats the type of sub everybody hope they never gonna use what is inside x)

1 Like

yup, i mean the name is quite self explanatory X)

2 Likes

Oh wow never knew it was on the Isuzu at one point. Navweaps says 55knots which is already fast but it also says a maximum reported of 70kn!? If true that’s crazy.

wiki says it can go 50km at 40 knots, 39km at 55 knots and it has a maximum speed of 70 knots (i’d assume for the final attack phase)

Apparently the source used is Jane’s Underwater Warfare Systems 2006-2007. I unfortunately don’t have access to it.

Now that’s some speeeedy boi

Yeah and it was on the Isuzu of all ships at one point 💀

Yep, those are still present. There 's also some submarine 's guns currently( incorrectly ) applied to surface ships, the 8cm/40 3rd Year Type( JPN ) and the 75mm/35 Mle.1925( FRA ).

The former is, in the files, actually the Type 88 wet mount variant used by submarines, though in normal gameplay most players wouldn’t be able to tell - it 's unique shellnames and own name are overwritten to correspond to the " correct " gun there.
The 75mm/35 keeps all of it 's own though, despite the nearly identical( and correct ) 75mm/50 Mle.1927 being in the files, currently unused like the Japanese 8cm gun.

ok so here’s my attempt at depicting submarine introduction in WT and why it could work.

Went from a basic map layout that look somewhat like a map for naval WT currently :

Usually the spawn pattern looks like this. Sometimes BBs have multiple spawns, sometimes there is no island, but those are rarer. Usually, there is an island rich zone on one side (for PT boats and destroyers) and a more open area for BBs and Heavy CCs. Don’t pay too much attention to the island layout, it’s quite random and not that important here.

So where would the submarine spawn could go ?
I tried my best, and to me it could look like this :

Their main spawn would be the “S” spawn where they could perform torpedo runs against enemy battleships or defend caps. Regarding caps : i think submarines should only be able to cap or prevent a cap by being surfaced.

i also think submarines could spawn in the PT boat spawn, since they have similar weaponry : mines, torps, and small caliber guns. While they can dive, they are also much slower and less maneuverable, and in those shallow waters, i think they’d be far more fragile againgst CAS. In the patrol boat zone, they could lay mines in corridors between islands, try to torp, or engage fragile pt boats with their primary weaponry. Heavier submarines such as surcouf or I400s would be unable to spawn here.

Why would the submarine spawn be here ?

I tried to guess the areas where submarine would be more effective : ideally it would be a few km away from battleships. Since they are also quite slower than any other class of vessel, i think they should be closer to the battlefield. However, they also have to be counter balanced, which is why i offset them a bit near the destroyer spawn. Here’s the map with the different transit route each class could potentially use :

Note that in the arrows length isn’t randomly chosen : they roughly correspond to each class speed (roughly 30kph surfaced for subs, 40 kph for BBs, 60-70 kph for DDs). So the same time would be needed for a sub to travel from its spawn to the fighting area (arrow head) and for a DD to travel from its spawn to its respective fighting area (I hope the explanation was clear enough).

One problem i see here is that the DD could have a problem hunting subs, since they would need to operate not that far from enemy BBs. Smokes could help, cause it messes up with telemetry and it wouldn’t prevent them from chasing subs, since it’s mainly sonar based. I think they’d also be far enough to defend incoming rounds by aggressive maneuvering.

How to hunt subs ?

Imo there should be a sonar like what we can currently see for SPAAs in ground RB. This should be very accurate and display a bit more info the in the current event like depth for example. You could also get a passive sonar which only gives a heading. I’m not a fan of the current submarine highlight we have in the event, imo it gives too much information, such as heading, exacpt depth, etc.
I think the sonar interface should be separated from the main minimap however, that would be more inline with what we have in other game modes.

What would sub UI look like ?

Subs would only get access to passive sonar (for WW2 subs only), which could indicate the direction of enemy ships. The 3rd person view is not that much a problem imo, since its range is very limited and if a DD comes close enough to be seen, you are most likely dead anyway. Subs would also be vulnerable to heavy shells from BBs if at a shallow depth. The current (event) mechanic for torps and mine laying is fine by me. However, there is currently a glitch that makes it possible for a sub to go max speed while being submerged 4m. If subs are introduced, i think that kind of breaking mechanic should be removed.

Also personnal note : i’d love to hear the ping from enemy DD’s active sonar in my subs, just for the ambiance.

Anyway sry for the long post. Let me know what you think and if i missed anything or if you have any reason to think that wouldn’ work

5 Likes

There are plenty of coastal frigates that don’t get a coastal spawn, but deserve something between the coastal spawn and the DD spawn. However, they’ve been stuck with the DD spawn for years. Don’t hold your breath for a ‘common sense’ sub spawn. They couldn’t get the spawn point right for the event, could they?

1 Like

one can hope…

I’ve been thinking that subs should get audio info from 3PV when submerged. While the 3PV is unrealistic, visibility is quite restricted and I could live with the current 3PV and still call it ‘realistic.’ However, the lack of hydrophones/passive sonar is a glaring omission. The player could get directional audio based on the direction they’re looking - when looking astern you’d hear nothing above the noise of your own engines, as IRL. The player would be their own hydrophone operator, hearing everything out there.

Strictly speaking surface vessels ought to have the same, but with all the above surface sounds too it would probably seem a little odd. Surface vessels have plenty of other sensors too - lookouts, radar, rangefinders - so no need for more data to be processed by the player. That can be left to the AI crew, as in the event, but the submerged sub has nothing else to do other than listen.

BTW, it was a hydrophone operator on Prinz Eugen who first detected the approaching ‘major warships at high speed’ which turned out to be Hood and Prince of Wales, so audio cues could be a long range sensor in some circumstances.

I tried to imagine what sub trees would look like, i have US, USSR, UK, France, Germany and Japan completed for now :

Please note :

  • Those are mainly for fun
  • Tech trees start from around 1910’s
  • Lot of this is based on wikipedia, so not a source in itself. I think it still is appropriate enough for lists like this
  • I skipped very slow submarines (20kph top speed or so), and some very redundant classes (WWI and interwar particularly)
  • Premiums are usually some subs with a bit of history, some unique prototype vehicule or if i wasn’t inspired, just a sub from a random class
  • each label represents a class if the “class” word is present in the label. I didn’t include each and every sub as it simply wouldn’t fit. From what i gethered, each class has between 2 to several hundreds subs. If one nation has a hole somewhere, it can be quite easy to add multiple subs of the same class to fill it
  • BR are very approximative and are just here as a rough idea : i had to research multiple classes of subs, and only had a quick glance at their characteristics : it is entirely possible i missed something which would justify a completely different BR
  • I used NATO designation for russian submarines when no class name was available, for comprehension purposes (series of number doesn’t make it easy to understand)

Hope you enjoy !

US

USSR

UK

France

Germany

Japan

10 Likes