Continuing the discussion from Discussion of the Submarine event and possible balancing:
In fact, WT Mobile already has the Pr.613( and also seems to have been the source for the visual model of the Type 7 in the event, dagorengine cross-compatibility ftw !)
While here in WT, we’ve had the Mk.9 torpedo used by the R- and S-classe submarines for some time now
We have some of these in the files too, the G7e(TIIIa) ( which currently lacks a visual model ) and the 53-39PM
Honeslty you’re thinking too much. Battlefield 1942 (original battlefield only in PC) already made it possible and showed there ways to submarine warfare without it breaking the game
Here’s some easy and difficult fixes/additions to allow subs
Before I get started let me iterate that subs should only be added from years corresponding to the bluewater/coastal craft years. A post WW2 nuclear sub will have to be nerfed if a WW1 battleship vessel is to have some level of chance
so basically only ww2 mid war unguided torps can be used and deck gun ammo is severely limited and if ballistic missiles are added the damage isn’t realistic (lessened)
Easy fixes
1 torp length, fire depth, speed, and damage amount (for torps for subs only) and amount of reload torps/time to reload torps at capped point
2 time at depth (air quality and battery charge)
3 fixing anti sub rockets/depth charge/anti sub grenade aiming
4 making depth charge depths variable in battle
5 anti sub packages for planes
6 limiting the amount of sub players allowed per team (prob 2-4 per team of 14 players, only a single spawn per match outside of plane to min/max the risk/reward factors and set a limit to time between sub matches so they can’t keep running subs)
Difficult fixes
1 allowed use of towed sonar (requires better tow mechanics like research into tow line breaking points, research which ships/boats were deployed with these packages, developing visuals like the chikugo is just it being tossed overboard/pulled up the side)
2 adding torpedo nets on ships that have them (almost all the WW1 battleships have them most are already on the models)
3 addition of sonar radar for anti sub planes and the controls on how it works
4 potential addition of larger ballistic missiles (unguided, short rocket powered for initial launch and then arc/glide to target) so subs have a longer range attack method (advanced subs only, reward for effort, allows avoidance of anti sub protections) and certain ships/boats can enjoy their missile packages (finally have a use for the albatross’s missile tubes besides visual aesthetics) and the anti rocket defenses to handle those missiles
Honeslty most of this should be easy to add to the game
Surcouf time !
I saw the x-ray of the Type VII on youtube and I dream of seeing the same thing for the surcouf, it would just be insane and i hope every country (that can) gonna have their subs if they come in the game. Because yep, some navy outside the “3 glory” (+UK) have also subs.
For those who don’t know the surcouf, here’s a little presentation of this French monster :D
Largest submarine in the world until 1942, when the Japanese subs-carrier class went a little bigger.
Crew 126
Length 110 m
Main beam 9 m
Draught 7.07 m
Displacement 3,304 t on surface
4,218 t diving
Propulsion Surface: 2 x 7,600 hp diesel engines
Underwater: 2 x 3,400 hp electric motors
2 propellers
Speed 19 knots (35 km/h) on surface
9 knots (17 km/h) diving
Depth 80 meters (maximum safety)
Armament 2 x 203 mm cannons with 300 rounds
2 AA 37 mm model 1925 guns with 500 rounds
10 torpedo tubes:
-4 front Ø 550mm tubes offset by 2° on the axis - model 1917
-2 triple OSD 1925 turrets aft (1 Ø 550mm tube and 2 Ø 400mm tubes)
12 reserve torpedoes (8 Ø 550mm + 4 Ø 400mm).
Range 10000 nautical miles at 10 knots on the surface
60 nautical miles at 5 knots diving
Aircraft 1 Besson MB-411 seaplane (yup)
The Vanguard-classe, HMS Vigilant(S30) is back in the files for the anniversary, I’ve gotten some images of it from the CDK while it 's here:
They really worked hard to model a vehicle which has only been playable for ~120 hours over a five-year period, eh ?
They usually do. Remember the old days walking tank that got massive enthusiasm of developers and not coming back though many people wants it.
First pic of your post isn’t the Surcouf though, it’s from a japanese movie called Lorelei: The Witch of the Pacific Ocean.
Oh damn, my bad, don’t know this movie.
Edit: well, looks like they make a movie and HEAVILY used the surcouf as inspiration for this submarine.
So technically it’s him :p
Any other modern sub in the files ?
So far as I can tell, it 's just Vigilant for the anniversary hangar. Still, the level of detail on it is incredible - and since much of the mechanics of the current event/test are reused from the one it appeared in, imo it 's worth archiving to have ready to compare to later additions.
Not quite the topic here, but yes I remember. I also remember:
how a number of new walking tanks appeared in the 2.7.0.55 model leak:
( https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/o1cz8v/27053_27055_changes/?rdt=64730 / 2.7.0.55 new )
And in addition to that, how
a few - but not all - of those walking tanks were later used for a similar April event in Darkflow 's Enlisted:
I’m going to copy across what I posted on reddit, as my sort of feedback in regards to submarines as they are in the current event and what I think could be added/removed prior to them being put into naval proper:
So we’ve got the uboat vs destroyers event now which is quite possibly a test run for the introduction of submarines into naval. I think this has the opportunity to be a lot of fun, but there are a number of tweaks that I think might be needed before they are added.
Uboats
Longer dive times, option for Crash dive similar to the Blow Ballast option (r)
Harder for AI spotters to spot at distance/weather conditions/night
Can hear enemy destroyers/freighters when dived, the slower the speed the longer the range. Options for researchable sonar upgrades (GHG to KDB to Balkon, etc)
Dive deeper than 60m
Give deck gun back
Longer range torpedoes than 2000m.
No deck gun or AAA gun when mostly underwater.
Rear torpedo tube for torpedoes, mines optional loadout.
Destroyers
Passive Sonar has a longer range the slower the ship travels, at flank speed it could run over a stereo and not hear it
ASDIC fairly well implemented in game, be sure that there’s the blind spot underneath though.
Depth charges need to be manually set between shallow, medium and deep
Hedgehogs where historical
Radar where historical?
General
In RB Naval, seperate spawn points for submarines that aren’t visible from the enemys spawn like current surface spawns are.
Submarines will probably be more useful in Enduring confrontation like bombers are
If the goal is to attack a convoy, then submarines should have the chance to get ahead of the convoy and dive. Will stop the destroyers spawn camping the submarines?
Special submarines, Surcouf, I-400 (launches planes like Battleships do in game now), maybe HMS X1? Gyro-copter for later uboats?
The bigger the submarine the longer the dive time.
Dive times, torpedo reloads and such can be affected by crew skills
Radar for submarines where historical, radar detection for subs where historical
Radar for anti submarine aircraft?
Night battles? Spotlights, star shells? Big disadvantage for ships without radar though (Cape Matapan).
Different torpedoes for different navies, but limited by BR, so a Type VIIA at a lower battle rating than a VIIC/42 wouldn’t be able to carry G7es homing torpedoes.
Foxer noise makers for Destroyers at the right BR, BOLD for uboats
You should post feedback for the event in the correct area in this forum on the event in the comments as everyone else is.
And I do not agree about dive times being added. Tanks do not have fuel limitations for running, ships do not. And just like how submarines do not have fuel timers they also should not have battery or oxygen timers as submarines could stay underwater on average much longer than the 25minute time limit of rb battles. If we get matches in naval rb back at the 1hr timelimit or more then that is a discussion for then. But the timescale for these battles is not an area you could reasonably add oxygen limitations other than making them highly unrealistic.
Will do. Thank you :)
Battery timers could make a tad sense. I’m not sure on the submerged range of a Type VII, but it should be pretty limited, atleast when running at flank speed
The maximum range for the Type Vii was around 80nm/150km underwater at 7.4kmh which gives you at that speed range 20.2hrs roughly of underwater running before your battery dies. So lets presume triple that speed you have the most 100% efficient engine that requires 3 times the power. You would be able to go 6hrs full flank speed if your engine did not get worn out and so forth. Make it even more inefficient to realism standards your Type VII still has an underwater range of around 1-3hrs. So again unless we get maps that cater to naval battles that exist 1hr+ the idea of battery timers is a mute point.
(However there were manyyyy classes of submarines much smaller than the Type VII with much lower underwater ranges whilst either sprinting or going for maximum range so if they ever get added you can either give them unlimited underwater range per the battle timers like larger submersable vessels, or give them a battery life gage that says unlimited unless you go flank speed and then it starts counting down until you either slow down or ascend to the surface for your air breathing engines to be used. Unless you wish to risk running out of power and are ejected from the vehicle or just left to float aimlessly unless you come to the surface).
I wonder how they will balance the Type 95 torpedo if subs come to TTs they are pretty much submarine versions of the long lance.
Man, that must have been a pain in the ass to construct a water-tight pressure resistant massive turret for a submarine.
very good idea i hope for the submarines come to normal techtree
just discovered and read the thread.
Imo submarine would indeed be welcomed, but i’m afraid WW2 subs will probably be quite useless.
most subs of that era can go 30kph tops surfaced, and let’s not even mention the submerged speed.
imo the critical factor here will be the submarine spawn location. If it’s with patrol boats / destroyer ships, subs will be mostly useless. if it’s with the larger ships, it will be difficult to counter for battleships.
one way to balance it would be to make the spawn far enough from effective torpedo firing range to encourage sub players to stay surfaced to get speed. Once they’re in position, they’ll be a pain to counter however. Also, as mentionned, destroyers will have a hard time doing any sub chase with 300+ mm shells lurking around.
To sum it up, it feels like a problem of distance, but i think subs won’t be the only ships affected by this, missile DDs will probably have a very similar problem
imo, probably not too differently from it 's surface-launched counterpart: countering it at considerable range would change little, since as a straight-running torpedo all the same tactics would apply to it as any other. At very close distances it 's high speed and large warhead would certainly be an advantage over other weapons, but it 's actual employment still isn’t hugely different from other sub-launched torps - it would still depend on the ability of the sub to reach those positions, as well as the ( lack of ) defensive maneuvers or weapons on the part of the ship being attacked.
In terms of Japanese submarine torps, it 's this one that would really worry me at the current stage - esp. if it will receive all of it 's available mechanics nd abilities
I’ve thought similarly, a great deal of the effectiveness of submarines in the context of WT is ultimately a result of where it is, and where it can get to from there.
Personally I think the frigate/destroyer spawn is appropriate on most maps, far enough from the objectives that most types of surface vessels have a chance to engage the submarine while it 's surface-running, while still close enough that a sub player could reach a useful hunting position in time to have something to fight.
There 's also the counter-submarine weapons which have a chance to appear, as a consideration. The ongoing event 's Fletcher and Tacoma have a maximum horizontal range of ~50m against a submerged submarine w/ the weapons they use, but there are ships at similar BR 's which could have weapons w/ ranges of several kilometres available to them - it’ll be interesting to see who gets what, and when.
