yup, i mean the name is quite self explanatory X)
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Oh wow never knew it was on the Isuzu at one point. Navweaps says 55knots which is already fast but it also says a maximum reported of 70kn!? If true that’s crazy.
wiki says it can go 50km at 40 knots, 39km at 55 knots and it has a maximum speed of 70 knots (i’d assume for the final attack phase)
Apparently the source used is Jane’s Underwater Warfare Systems 2006-2007. I unfortunately don’t have access to it.
Now that’s some speeeedy boi
Yeah and it was on the Isuzu of all ships at one point 💀
Yep, those are still present. There 's also some submarine 's guns currently( incorrectly ) applied to surface ships, the 8cm/40 3rd Year Type( JPN ) and the 75mm/35 Mle.1925( FRA ).
The former is, in the files, actually the Type 88 wet mount variant used by submarines, though in normal gameplay most players wouldn’t be able to tell - it 's unique shellnames and own name are overwritten to correspond to the " correct " gun there.
The 75mm/35 keeps all of it 's own though, despite the nearly identical( and correct ) 75mm/50 Mle.1927 being in the files, currently unused like the Japanese 8cm gun.
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ok so here’s my attempt at depicting submarine introduction in WT and why it could work.
Went from a basic map layout that look somewhat like a map for naval WT currently :
Usually the spawn pattern looks like this. Sometimes BBs have multiple spawns, sometimes there is no island, but those are rarer. Usually, there is an island rich zone on one side (for PT boats and destroyers) and a more open area for BBs and Heavy CCs. Don’t pay too much attention to the island layout, it’s quite random and not that important here.
So where would the submarine spawn could go ?
I tried my best, and to me it could look like this :
Their main spawn would be the “S” spawn where they could perform torpedo runs against enemy battleships or defend caps. Regarding caps : i think submarines should only be able to cap or prevent a cap by being surfaced.
i also think submarines could spawn in the PT boat spawn, since they have similar weaponry : mines, torps, and small caliber guns. While they can dive, they are also much slower and less maneuverable, and in those shallow waters, i think they’d be far more fragile againgst CAS. In the patrol boat zone, they could lay mines in corridors between islands, try to torp, or engage fragile pt boats with their primary weaponry. Heavier submarines such as surcouf or I400s would be unable to spawn here.
Why would the submarine spawn be here ?
I tried to guess the areas where submarine would be more effective : ideally it would be a few km away from battleships. Since they are also quite slower than any other class of vessel, i think they should be closer to the battlefield. However, they also have to be counter balanced, which is why i offset them a bit near the destroyer spawn. Here’s the map with the different transit route each class could potentially use :
Note that in the arrows length isn’t randomly chosen : they roughly correspond to each class speed (roughly 30kph surfaced for subs, 40 kph for BBs, 60-70 kph for DDs). So the same time would be needed for a sub to travel from its spawn to the fighting area (arrow head) and for a DD to travel from its spawn to its respective fighting area (I hope the explanation was clear enough).
One problem i see here is that the DD could have a problem hunting subs, since they would need to operate not that far from enemy BBs. Smokes could help, cause it messes up with telemetry and it wouldn’t prevent them from chasing subs, since it’s mainly sonar based. I think they’d also be far enough to defend incoming rounds by aggressive maneuvering.
How to hunt subs ?
Imo there should be a sonar like what we can currently see for SPAAs in ground RB. This should be very accurate and display a bit more info the in the current event like depth for example. You could also get a passive sonar which only gives a heading. I’m not a fan of the current submarine highlight we have in the event, imo it gives too much information, such as heading, exacpt depth, etc.
I think the sonar interface should be separated from the main minimap however, that would be more inline with what we have in other game modes.
What would sub UI look like ?
Subs would only get access to passive sonar (for WW2 subs only), which could indicate the direction of enemy ships. The 3rd person view is not that much a problem imo, since its range is very limited and if a DD comes close enough to be seen, you are most likely dead anyway. Subs would also be vulnerable to heavy shells from BBs if at a shallow depth. The current (event) mechanic for torps and mine laying is fine by me. However, there is currently a glitch that makes it possible for a sub to go max speed while being submerged 4m. If subs are introduced, i think that kind of breaking mechanic should be removed.
Also personnal note : i’d love to hear the ping from enemy DD’s active sonar in my subs, just for the ambiance.
Anyway sry for the long post. Let me know what you think and if i missed anything or if you have any reason to think that wouldn’ work
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There are plenty of coastal frigates that don’t get a coastal spawn, but deserve something between the coastal spawn and the DD spawn. However, they’ve been stuck with the DD spawn for years. Don’t hold your breath for a ‘common sense’ sub spawn. They couldn’t get the spawn point right for the event, could they?
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one can hope…
I’ve been thinking that subs should get audio info from 3PV when submerged. While the 3PV is unrealistic, visibility is quite restricted and I could live with the current 3PV and still call it ‘realistic.’ However, the lack of hydrophones/passive sonar is a glaring omission. The player could get directional audio based on the direction they’re looking - when looking astern you’d hear nothing above the noise of your own engines, as IRL. The player would be their own hydrophone operator, hearing everything out there.
Strictly speaking surface vessels ought to have the same, but with all the above surface sounds too it would probably seem a little odd. Surface vessels have plenty of other sensors too - lookouts, radar, rangefinders - so no need for more data to be processed by the player. That can be left to the AI crew, as in the event, but the submerged sub has nothing else to do other than listen.
BTW, it was a hydrophone operator on Prinz Eugen who first detected the approaching ‘major warships at high speed’ which turned out to be Hood and Prince of Wales, so audio cues could be a long range sensor in some circumstances.
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I tried to imagine what sub trees would look like, i have US, USSR, UK, France, Germany and Japan completed for now :
Please note :
- Those are mainly for fun
- Tech trees start from around 1910’s
- Lot of this is based on wikipedia, so not a source in itself. I think it still is appropriate enough for lists like this
- I skipped very slow submarines (20kph top speed or so), and some very redundant classes (WWI and interwar particularly)
- Premiums are usually some subs with a bit of history, some unique prototype vehicule or if i wasn’t inspired, just a sub from a random class
- each label represents a class if the “class” word is present in the label. I didn’t include each and every sub as it simply wouldn’t fit. From what i gethered, each class has between 2 to several hundreds subs. If one nation has a hole somewhere, it can be quite easy to add multiple subs of the same class to fill it
- BR are very approximative and are just here as a rough idea : i had to research multiple classes of subs, and only had a quick glance at their characteristics : it is entirely possible i missed something which would justify a completely different BR
- I used NATO designation for russian submarines when no class name was available, for comprehension purposes (series of number doesn’t make it easy to understand)
Hope you enjoy !
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I would also like to suggest JDS Oyashio (SS-511), the very first indigenous post-war sub Japan developed, using technology/designs from the I-201/Sentaka-class as well as American equipment.
Lessons learned from operating JDS Kuroshio (SS-501)/Ex-USS Mingo led to development of the sole example of her class. These then led to further development of more sub classes, ensuring the future of Japanese sub development.
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interesting,
I’ll update the chart accordingly ;)
Damn nice work !
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thanks !
I had some fun making it, and it’s rainy anyway ^^’
Learnt a thing or two about subs in the process (i had no idea there were so many WW1 and interwar classes for example). Glad you enjoyed it !
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Are the 3 column “random” or they define a type of subs ?
Because with the ending sub i guess the left line end with SSBN, another column would be attack sub, but the 3rd?
I tried to separate them by weight.
The heavier tend to be in the center column, mediums on the right one, and lightest on the left one.
You can see it a lot on japanese tree for example : Aircraft carrying subs are in the middle.
It’s also the case on the french tree : 1500T class in the middle, followed by Surcouf.
Same logic applies for USSR : SSBN middle, SSN left, AND SSGN right.
However, some trees (german one in particular) are filled with low tonnage to medium tonnage subs, so I had to spread them on the 3 columns in a more random manner. You could also argue that the difference between the left and right line is sometimes quite thin.
I’m sure the Suffren class is the heaviest, but it is on the left side, same for UK and US SSBN i think, should go in center in your logic ?
Also if i can suggest: the Mariotte submarine (service in 1913) wich was quite speedy underwater with it’s original shape (26 km/h surface, 20.3 km/h underwater)
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Looks funny, i love it, I’ll update the chart
Are we talking about the modern Suffren ? It is around 5000T and is an attack nuclear sub. The heaviest is the Triomphant at around 14000T.
As for the UK and US SSBNs i think i did put them at the center ? maybe i misunderstood something.
What’s a bit illogical is that i put the heaviest at the center, what i could do is arrange the lines more gradually (lightests subs on the left, middle weight in the middle, and heaviest on the right)
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Astute class and Virginia on the left column.
And yeah mybad for the Suffren, dunno why in my head i was thinking about the Triomphant class ^^’
I think the Triomphant class should be on the last rank too ?
Astute is a 7000T SSN as far as i know, much lighter than its Vanguard SSBN counterpart (around 15000T)
Same goes for Virginia SSN (around 7000T) and Ohio SSBN (around 17000T)
(Those SSN and SSBN naming conventions can be quite confusing ^^')
Seing as it got put into service from 1997 to 2010 i think there is quite a gap from the first Suffren (put in service in 2020 if i recall correctly). Also it avoids a gap in the tier VII for the SSBN line.
I saved the spot in tier VIII for SNLE 3G, which is starting construction as we speak :P
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