In todays Sim mode its 90% that. Fly there, drop bomb, fly home.
Don´t get me wrong, I fully agree that the gameplay should be improved, but no to your call for premium pve mode.
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Why? Did you try to play my mission?
It is definitely not about “Fly there, drop bomb, fly home”.
It very much could.
All the issues of “being prey” disappear because each fight against another opponent is a learning opportunity. Each time you fight someone, you make mistakes and you recognize those mistakes and try to avoid them the next time.
I’m relatively new to combat air sims, and in a day of flying in WT I’ve managed to start getting player kills against aware and resisting fighters.
I could do this because the P-51 cannonstang is cheap to spawn.
Trying to learn the same in the F2H-2 or similar is not viable.
If I can do that with without headtracking, anyone else can. I’ve no amazing reflexes or dexterity to help me.
Why do you even want a PvE mode for a multiplayer game? The reason one plays warthunder is to interact with living, breathing thinking opponents who can think creatively and present unique challenges each time you meet. There’s plenty of singleplayer sims.
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I would love to play one that provides similar convenience as this game.
Well, I would prefer to learn how to complete a mission rather than focus on being better than another player.
I don’t play with older planes, where mastering the controls is a challenge in itself.
Most players are interested in modern aircraft, as these provide far more capabilities that extend beyond simple competition between players.
This game is designed to make money, not to educate and improve players.
In my opinion, good PvE with clear tasks and engaging gameplay can attract far more players than a mode focused on learning how to outperform other players.
Which one of you is correct? :)
They’re describing the PvE component without the presence of other players.
Without player opponents to intercept you, engage you in combat and force evasion, self-defence or stealthy approaches… this game has less engagement than flying a concorde across the ocean in real time - hence the need for the enemy players.
What is the primary commodity of an MMO?
Its playerbase.
What is Warthunder’s primary commodity compared to competitors?
Its playerbase and variety of vehicles and ease of picking up a new one. These all support each other positively.
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Bots can be perfect threat. You cannot agree with bots to perform farming sessions.
I ask you again to play my mission. Then you can say if it is challenging or not.
Many players would love to play PvE here.
Bots do not have creative problem solving, nor do they react unpredictably to your actions. Only way to make bots challenging in most games is by giving them non-physics/ahistorical advantages or significant number advantages.
And as I said, PvE games exist. People who want PvE games have a massive smörgåsbröd of choices. For games where you need to problem-solve and adapt to living, breathing and creative opponents? Il-2 and DCS, neither of which have the sheer variety and ease-of-pick-up Warthunder has and neither is free - which is a significant barrier to playercounts. There’s a reason team fortress 2 went F2P, why Dota is F2P and why AoE2:DE keeps its prices very, very low for the content it offers.
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Well, you can still program their response based on the player’s actions. Also, to my knowledge, AI beats human in simulated dogfight.
Again, the majority of the players want to play game but not to learn how to be better than everyone.
If snails know how to create interesting gameplay for the majority of players within PvP mode, it is great.
For now SB does not provide this option.
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I have created some extra challenge in the following way (see mission below):
At the third phase of this mission you will be required to protect Su-25 from enemy fighter jets.
Here it is how it is done to bring some random and challenge:
- You should defeat 6 or 7 bots one after another. The challenge for player is that bots spawn at random positions, so the pattern of their apperance is always different.
- If the distance between enemy fighter and you is less than the distance between enemy jet and Su-25, enemy fighter jet will attack you first.
Considering point#1 it creates real challenge.
Believe me, if you play Su-27 it is not easy the beat that bot.
I play this mission over and over again, and I really enjoy it, even if I know all the scenario.
I have heard this point a lot. But this point makes sense only when proper gameplay takes place.
PvE still matches MMO concept.
In current PvP gameplay strike planes do not have proper gameplay, in my opinion. You do not plan your attack, you do not make target priorities, there is no scenario, just dumb hitting ground units…if enemy will allow you to do this. Especially when you are playing against USA team.
In PvE you can focus on game mechanics and completing task. But not just task, but scenario, which should be much more interesting and immersive than current “hit and run” gameplay.
Sim reward are terrible.
Fly F5 E, the joining cost is above 11 000 sl.
F5E is a fighter and at this br the most often is dogfight. F5E has no problem with any other planes. Lets say you get one kill, 600 points and than what… run to your base and wait. This is not the way you should play. Sim is forceing players to be neactive after thay score. If there is game with 4 players on both sides, every one from the red team get kill or destry a base, than the blue team dont have anyone to fly with, and if you say there are always bots in the game, witch might not be truth since there is only friendly or ennemy bomer at the time, not both, there is nothing atractive in the game for blue team. Ennemy scores and than run off, for 15min, get a reward and is happy to get one. You with no points gets nothing. The problem is in the 15minits time gabs. If you would not be reward at the time you score, atleast it would make sance to be reward at the time you land. Players would go right back to the game and woudnt have to wait for the reward. In a ground realistic game you can easily earn about 40 000 sl per 15minits. In sim… you might get the joining cost back and only if you survive, that means for first 15min with F5E you earn about 5 000sl.
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Well, this is what sim players wanted. When rewards were good (sim players were bragging about it), it attracted farmers. Sim players started to complain about farmers, so gaijin changed rules for getting rewards.
Now sim mode is only for those who really loves sim as pvp gameplay. Enjoy!
… If anything, the current system rewards PvE and heavily punishes PvP.
Take off, climb & fly for ~10-12 minutes
Drop bomb for ~500 points (About 80% of full reward)
RTB in ~6 minutes
Land
Repeat
Vs PvP:
Take off, climb and patrol looking for targets for 8-15 minutes depending on lobby size (I’ve gone dry for a whole UA cycle before trying to find anyone to intercept during deader brackets and hours)
Fly into a Supremacy point and contest it for 3-5 minutes. Get ~400-600 score for that if you win (and it doesn’t expire on you and give nothing to nobody)
Kill 1-2 planes while contesting, get ~450-900 score for that
You’ve way exceeded the optimal reward treshold and should have flown back to base after first kill and just sat AFK above your airfield because lingering on the A point means you might die early and get practically no reward, especially at rank 4 and rank 5.
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That still do not mean, players should pay for playing sim.
So, I thought.
I struggle to find games in the F2H-2 that do not involve the saggitario 2 or early aim-9Bs.
What if I flew early U.S jets?
“Should be perfect, only in 2 brackets will I have to deal with saggi 2s.”
“What’s the economy like…”
“1430 per minute, so… 19 734 silver lions per useful actions cycle. Better than the banshee. This is looking promising. What’s the repair cost though when spaded…”
Maximum reward: 19 734
Cost to spawn: 18094.
Maximum reward: 19734.
I CANNOT EVEN EARN TWO THOUSAND SL in a useful actions cycle after first spawning.
Maybe A-5 is better?
…
I thought the Banshee suffered.
Looked at Me-262…
Looked at Horton…
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The best solution would be to reduce AF bombing to 0 rewards. And raise the rewards for fighters massively.
The risk of getting no rewards in a fighter is way higher than sitting in a bomber, watching Netflix while on autopilot and do easy points.
The top scorers are still Zomber, bombing AF´s… But they shouldn’t, because Gaijin solved the Zomber problem… But somehow it just works fine for Zombers and punishes Fighters only.
Bombing AF´s shuts down the gameplay for the fighters. So less “targets” will be available for the fighters.
When you play USSR team, enemy team will not allow you to complete PVE tasks
I agree, but “true PVP” players do not think so.
No this really screws the bombers. Having the AFs as a permament target means that players dont have to fight over bases like they do in ARB. Personally I want to see attackable airfields added to ARB specifically to better improve the effeciency of bombers within that gamemode.
Im also really hoping for Gameplay like JP233 runs in the future.
I personally think the reward is fine.
The issue is that you need to survive to get any reward and its incredibly easy to cap on reward earnings and just need to RTB for 10 minutes before taking off again. That is the problem. They should swap to a hybrid system. Half the reward immediately, the other half via activity time as it is now. So you always earn something even if you die shortly afterwards. Also add diminishing returns based “overtime” for doing more actions in a given 15 minute window and then finally remove the first spawn SL costs and boom. Sim economy is WAY better and no one looses out.
My solution to this is simple. If a player dies in close proximity to an Airfield 3 times in a row. prevent them from gaining any score from the AF for the next 15 minutes. Zombers dealt with and no one punished. Personally during events, I just farm these zombers, its quicker than any other method for farming the events.
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