We got a bunch of new changes for all fox 3 missiles barring AIM-54s, can we get updated charts? @dark_claw
I will test it after they update the game
5 Likes
looks like they loft again?
I didn’t do any reports that netted the changes, I do not know what they might have used
Just wondering because you said the change was historical, my assumption is this was based on the edge case/90° target launches with the incorrect 0.5s delay, hence they reduced the AoA too much, though I’m not sure.
I recall reading somewhere that the fin AoA peaked around 26 degrees (maybe 28?) but regardless, further is not beneficial to the design in any practical standpoint. The lifting body design requires AoA is managed carefully to avoid instability. True missile AoA is probably kept under 20 degrees at all times.
The lifting body effects aren’t modelling in game are they?
Most interesting bit about the loft code changes is that they didn’t seem to have touched the loftTargetOmegaMax, which as far as my testing has gone, is the most significant value for performance gains from loft (though all are important). I wonder why they chose to modify them in these ways. Granted the testing i did regarding lofting was for the AIM-54’s so its unclear if the general observations I’ve come to regarding the effects of loft code have the same impact on the medium range fox 3’s. I would expect them too though.
If I was to guesstimate the effects of the loft change (visually atleast), they likely look something like this:
Red being old loft and Green being new loft.
New loft likely climbs faster, but quits the loft sooner (due to unchanged omegaMax + lower targetElevation) and follows a generally more direct trajectory to the target is my guess, which should be an improvement over the previous loft code, but likely leaves quite a bit of gains on the table as the missile actually spends very little time at higher alts where the air is thinner.
I don’t recall, probably not…
The R-27EA in the last two pictures is actually the R-27ER using the R77 LOFT trajectory.Looks a bit too strong.
From the test, they weakened the kinetic advantage of AIM-120A. Although AIM-120A performs better than before at medium and long range, some other missiles have received more buff.C-5 no changes.
Derby gets the biggest buff, followed by R-77. R-77-1 looks pretty good right now.There are no particularly bad ARH missiles at the moment.
PL-12 is mediocre, and the test results are not as good as expected from the datamine. The drag of the MICA is lower than before, but its loft trajectory is the same as before, so it is still poor at long distance.
At closer ranges, all of these missiles are similar.
5 Likes
Off-boresight launch.
New AIM-120 has a significantly limited available AOA, and the available overload may be reduced by 20%. The maneuverability of the R-77 has been greatly improved.
3 Likes
How do you feel about these graphs?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1e6z9pc/a_change_in_rocket_dynamics_as_well_as_a/
Good work. If I understand correctly,his test is to launch the missile at a distance of 60km and record the time and speed of the missile at different travelled distances. My test method is to change the launch distance of the missile and record the hit time and the terminal speed.
Due to different test methods, and the loft work differently at different distances, so there will be some differences in the results, but it is not a big problem.
2 Likes
Got it, thanks for the insight.
Man, these graphs really go to show just how horrible the AIM-54C is.
The current performance of phoenix may be due to the fact that the BR of F14A/B is 12.3/12.7…
Improving the loft trajectory can greatly improve the missile’s performance, but it may be too powerful for novice players.
Im not so worried about the AIM-54A tbh, afaik it might even be overperforming to some degree, my issue is with the F-14B and eventual F-14D. The AIM-54C has a completely new and much more advanced guidance section, specifically stated to allow it to follow more complex and optimized flight trajectories, one reason for which was to increase pK% vs highly maneuverable fighter sized targets iirc, which would imply requiring more speed at pitbull. There’s no good reason why the 54C retains the guidance code from the 54A in-game imo, as it literally makes it outright inferior as a missile in-game.
With a better guidance code, such as some of the ones I’ve made and tested, the 54C would be more comparable to the R-27E in impact velocity at range, which I think would be more than fair. I wouldn’t mind seeing the F-14B bumped up in BR a bit if it got an improved guidance code along with other 54C fixes and 9M’s to help it compete with the higher BR planes if it went up.
3 Likes
how is that verifiable? no radar changes have occurred for it in the files.
1 Like
The maneuvering nerf really cut the balls off the 120A, while it may go farther, it cant hit much besides a head on target at those ranges.