I was just wondering if I should research the Tornado GR.1 for sim matches, I have always liked tornados and I love the IDS Marineflieger, but I find it annoying the Marineflieger doesn’t get guided missiles/bombs (Aside from the Kormoran).
The laser guided bombs are tricky to use in ASB due to the lack of ballistic computer/CCRP for guided bombs. So you still have to dive bomb like you use to have to in RB.
The PGMs are a lot better, but currently a bit buggy and fiddly to use, (hopefully will be fixed some day) but can be used to hit ground targets with practice.
So it depends what you want to do?
If its just base bombing, then the MFG is better as its at 11.0.
I just want to know if it’s worth it in general, or if I should just keep using my F-4J UK (I’ll probably switch to the F-4M when I’ve researched/spaded it), so if it’s worth it as in base bombing, ground pounding and air to air. Obviously I don’t expect to out dogfight a MiG or F-16 but I do want to maybe help in a support role or in self defence.
Base bombing in it is identical to the MFG, basically the same bombs and the same tactics work in both
You can use PGMs to hit bases, which can be handy for those bases hiding near AF, but they can be a little fiddly to use at times (Mostly buggy) and if you want to hit ground vehicles, then they can be good for that. But not as good as AGMs
A2A is tricky. the first is you lack any kind of radar, so no IFF. This does limit what you can do. That being said, a well timed and well aimed 9L will get easy kills. I’ve caught more than a few air targets unaware before with one. The ACM mode can be handy when you can guarantee that anything in front of you is an enemy. Like attacking a base next to an AF.
Its not the most nimble aircraft, but can semi-defend itself from another attacker, or down-tier jet, but you arent going to last long vs Mig-29 or F-16.
Probably the best A2A jet britain has currently for close in dogfighting is the Harrier Gr7. Sea Harrier FRS1 might be good if it ever gets its proper radar with IFF. Tornado F3 can be okay, but no bombs at all there.
Your best bet in the Gr1 in SB, is to focus on bases, naval targets and the occasional ground vehicle with PGMs and generally avoid direct A2A combat unless its a target of oppotunity (i’ve found myself behind enemy aircraft as they’ve flown in front of me without knowing I was there) or when supporting teammates. If you are running without fuel tanks as well, you burn fuel fast. Especially if you want to maintain full reheat. So usually by the time you’ve hit a base, you need to start heading back to base to refuel.
Alright I might try to go for it, IFF isn’t a problem for me, since AIM-9L is cqc missile I have to be within visual range, and I’m pretty good at identifying aircraft myself, I don’t actually know how to use guided bombs but I can always use dumb bombs.
I just like the Tornado and wanted to know if it was worth getting, or if I should go for the F.3, but I have seen some more of your posts and you said something like the GR.1 is better because of BR placement I think.
Tornado F3, especially in SB, is in a really rough place. Its at 11.7, meaning its hard-locked to EC9 and fighting Mig-29s, F-16s and the occasional F-14. It really struggles at that BR. Due to its poor CQC performance. Its also lacking things like proper HUD symbology for the radar and Pure A2A jets in SB can be a pain because its hard to maintain a high activity time. I want to like the F3, but I just dont “click” with it.
I much prefer hitting ground targets in the Gr1 because you always have something to do. Being 11.3 still means you face uptiers, but occasionally you get those glorious downtiers. just like you do in the F4J(UK)
So it really depends on what you want to do. Though I have found you get more consistant SL/RP from bombing in SB than you do from only A2A combat, so if you want to get both, might be best starting with the Gr1 and using it to get the F3.
Alright thank you for the help, one other question, do you think I should use bring the GAU-4 or more bombs on my Phantom?
Before the recent HP changes to the bases, I’d say extra bombs because you could hit and kill 2 bases per sortie (drop 6 on the first base and the remaining 5 on the second, use to take 5x Mk13s to kill a base) but now, I think you need more like 7 or 8 (though I do need to test the Mk13s and how many they take to kill a base now)
So now, it might be better to take just the 8 wing bombs and hit 1 base per sortie. (landing rewards the full amount from a sortie, so a good idea to try and land reguarly.)
If you prefer trying to dogfight, and find yourself in situations often where you can actually make use of the gun, then I’d take the Gun. Lack of all-aspect IR missiles does make the F4 vulnerable in a dogfight. Though with the FGR2 I always found that if I took the gun, it never got used, if I didnt take the gun, I’d have 2 or 3 oppotunities to use it. The gun can also be easier to use to take down things like waves of bombers/attackers. So i think it really depends on the situation (map/whats happening on the map)
The Fuel tank is another option, but I dont know how fuel-thirsty the F4J is, so I dont know how much worth there is in that for you.
I’m a mouse and keyboard player, so I’m not great at using the gun but I can occasionally get kills with it, I’ve just found that bases reward a lot more. I don’t usually bring the extra fuel tank because there isn’t much fuel in it, and 29 minutes is usually enough to hit two bases, then boost it back to the airfield with the afterburner (though I only have maybe 1-3 minutes left).
My only issue is that a lot of the time I get engaged or teamkilled while trying to go for a second base.
Yeah then it might not be worth the extra weight or drag. (taking nothing is also an option, just take nothing for the extra speed). Yeah, rewards in SB are tricky to explain, they are based more on activity than specific actions and hitting bases is a great way of maintaining a really high activity time. You need something like 3x A2A kills every 15 minutes to maintain the same kind of activity time you get from bombing 1 base.
Yeah, probably not worth it. Prehaps try to conserve fuel on your way out, then slap it into fuel reheat for the remainder of the sortie, might give you a little more wiggle room
TKs are unfortunately very common, a lot of people buy the F4s and dont realise they dont have IFF in all modes and F4s can be found on both sides quite often. Not sure what to suggest to avoid being engaged when attacking a second base. So might be best to just hit 1 and RTB. Especially in matches with a lot of players
Yeah I find it annoying that the F-4J doesn’t get IFF on PDV but it is definitely workable, I just don’t use PDV in simulator because of that. But sometimes I don’t even make it to a base, because stupid premium players don’t know how IFF works.
I certainly don’t have a problem outmaneuvering and killing enemy players (When I’m in EC8) but it just leaves me with too little fuel to hit the base and make it back.
Last weekend I died 11 times in EC8. 9 of those were to friendlies :|
Yeah, I use to play the FGR2, back when it was the only jet with PD. I got a few TKs, but if you were paying attention to the map and what was going on, it was a deadly combo. And then the Viggen and later Mig-23s came along that could sit in PD all day long without any care in the world and it just wasnt worth it anymore. Started base bombing in teh Jaguar Gr1A.
I feel like they really need to explain radar mechanics better and actually list what modes have IFF or not somewhere. Too many people message “how do I know who is friend or foe on the radar”
I think they need tutorials for things like
- Air to air missiles
- Air to ground missiles
- Radar modes/IFF
- How to recover from spins (I find this is a big problem with the player base in low tier)
I am also wondering if it would be better to spade the FGR.2 in sim or ARB because in ARB I’m going to die either way (With only having 9D) and in sim I’m not going to be able to get many rewards because I am locked to air to air until I get bombs.
Definetly, a lot things have no explanation in-game. Even things like CCRP have no in-game tutorial.
I’d say ARB, if nothing else, you can gun fight a lot easier in that, at least till you get bombs.
I don’t even know how to use CCRP in sim, I only use the CCIP (or just eyeball it).
Alright I’ll try ARB, at least I get flares by default now, it’s nice the FGR.2 gets 90 flares as opposed to the J’s 60
“Heres one I made earlier” :P
Though, the F4s have basically no CCRP interface. So CCIP is just a lot easier. CCRP In the Tornado Gr1 and Jaguars/Harriers. Even the Buc has a half decent CCRP interface can be a lot of fun
Yeah, its things like that that make no sense. Would figure they have the same CM count. I cant wait for the Gr1 to get its full CM loadout. 56 CMs, is really sad, especially if you want to have both flares and chaff
Yeah I might have to read that CCRP guide, also you mentioned the Buc has it, so do you recommend me using that? Because I can take quite a lot of bombs on that thing. I could likely get 3-4 bases in one run (if I did math properly)
Also yeah it would be nice for the Tornado to get it’s full CMs, but I reckon that will come next year if not later. For me, I barely run chaff for I have more use in flares, I stick to the deck most of the time anyway, so no radar missiles will get me.
I personally prefer the GR.7 for GRB, but if you want to play the 11.3 challengers without the slight uptier I guess the Tornado GR.1 would be worthwhile…
You “could” hit 3 bases (Wing bombs are twin release, internal single release, so you could drop 4 bombs on 3 bases and then swing round and drop a 5th bomb per base) in the Buc. but I’d recommend more like 2 bases and a part of a third (6, 6, 4). With the HP changes no, it’s might be more like 2.
Its definetly an option, you’d also get the 10% RP bonus when researching the Gr1. Though the overall RP/SL boost from flying a premium is probably worth more. The Buc can be really fun, though you have to be really gentle on the stick. The wings are held on with duct tape and chewing gum.
Though sitting at that lower BR, you have to deal with aircraft with radars and you can be more sneaky
Sorry but I don’t play GRB, and I was wondering for simulator air.