Increased base healthpoints in Sim EC

Hi folks!

Since a day or two mission target / base hitpoints seem to be increased for high tier Sim EC matches: whereas before e.g. 6x. Mk.83 1000 lbs bombs were enough to kill a base, you now need 7x or 8x 1000-pounders.

So for example for the Tornado, who with its bomb load of 12x Mk.83 usually could kill two bases in one sortie, it now needs two sorties for 3 bases. And for Harriers which before could kill one base reliably with their 5 bombs, they now can only reduce a base to about 3/4!

Now even though from a rewards point of view this doesn’t change much (as it seems to be calculated relative to bomb tonnage dropped), I find it very annoying as one constantly keeps flying with “a job not finished”, and having to return for finishing a already attacked target - with the very high probability that someone will kill it while you travel to it again. Happened to me yesterday for example that I kept chasing after partially damaged bases (damaged by myself…) which were then finished by others just before I got in range.

What are your thoughts and feelings about this?

Please keep it civil and constructive, please…

I think the important thing should be is that they are destroyed, doesn’t matter if it’s a teammate or you - both get proportional rewards after the base is destroyed.

Another thing I’m curious about - would it make sense for a tiny ticket drain with just damage, while destruction basically doubles it?

from the Datamines:

Also .74 changes

  • [Enduring Confrontation]:
    • 6.7 - 7.7 base HP: 22000 → 24000
    • 8.0+ base HP: 28000 → 32000

A was so excited for the BR changes when the ASSTA 1 moves down to 11.3 in SB, but now while you need 7 bombs per base I am not sure if I still want to fly the ASSTA1 in SB…

Not played in a few days, so that sucks. Ill keep an eye out and report any variations from map to map. I hate these stealth changes. Especially with the AFs likely still lacking in HP

Nobody has been complaining about base HP, and they increase it with no explanation. But numerous posts have been made about weak Airfields for some months now, and nothing has been done to address the issue.

The summer event is coming. A lot of players will try to do it in air SB. One of the fast and easy way is to destroy bases. So they increased HP to make it slower for players to do the event. At least with some planes.
Last year summer event you could destroy bases with unguided rockets (MightyMouse, eg. ). They changed that mid-event and you couldn’t kill a base anymore with rockets.

Ah yeah, you’ll be right on that front though punishing all sucks. I dont want the Su-25, nor will be caring about it. Oh well. I sitll usually run 8x Mk83s and overkill bases anyway, just annoying more than anything

My problem with this is I can no longer play Harrier as a bomber for example.
AJ37 has been dead for air sim for a long time due to base HP.
I like destroying a base per sortie, but now I dunno if I’ll play sim air again.
Can I even kill a sim base with 12 500 pound bombs anymore? Probably not, which means F-16A MLU is not usable unless I choose higher drag 2000 pounders.

I liked it when AJ37 could barely bomb bases in sim, and now even less can bomb bases.

Not a fan.

As I said, I probably won’t return to sim for a long time now.

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I was able to destroy a base with 18 x 250 lb. with A-6E. I guess 12 x 500 lb should still work.

the answer is quite clear. too little choice of bases and other ground targets.

If the rewards per sortie remains consistent, then I don’t have any objections. However, I would prefer these balancing changes were expressed transparently in the change log notes. My understanding of the straight base bombing scoring is that this change doesn’t effect the score directly. However, adjusting the load dropped based on aircraft load out may have significant indirect effects. I also don’t specifically mind that this mechanic is used to balance between bombers/strike aircraft and fighters, but I would prefer a transparent discussion of such balancing.

As to bases not being finished, it comes down to play style with different aircraft. I prefer incendiaries on certain aircraft due to their ability to clear a base in a drop of 4 vs 7 or other awkward ripple quantities. On other aircraft, I will specifically clear up partial bases due to extras, an incomplete bomb load, or subsonics with large bomb load but slow with many bases in an area. I know I see chat messages regularly asking for people to finish off their bases, but I personally find that there are many legitimate reasons to not finish a base. Some aircraft lend themselves to the task, and I take it upon myself to clean them up when flying such a plane. From a general strategy standpoint finishing the bases maximizes score (50% bonus of dropped TNT) and SL and allows a new base to spawn, so it should be a team priority.

The two most important changes I would like to address changes like this are:

  1. The ability to customize bomb load more completely, including partial loads on pylons. Especially on the higher altitude maps the ability to customize the tradeoff between performance and bomb load is useful.
  2. The capability to select single increment ripple quantities, at least up to 8 preferably up to the largest number of 250 lb bombs needed to destroy a base. I would accept individualized ripple quantities based on actual aircraft capabilities as long as these were established across all aircraft or always provided a benefit from the default if no information were available at a given rank or BR level.
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Yeah, agreed. I usually opt for just lofting 8 bombs at a base already so I can make use of ripple modes, but was nice to be able to hit 2 full bases with 12 bombs or finish off 1 base and hit another with 6 bombs.

Though its the Harriers that are going to feel this the most, at least in the british tree. They could carry 5 bombs which was exactly what they needed. Kinda sucks that its now only partial base kills.

Just wish these changes werent buired needing data mining to find.

Done some testing in the Tornado Gr1 on Denmark

Mk13s have gone from 5 to 6 bombs to get a kill
Mk83s have gone from 6 to 7 bombs to get a kill.
I think PGM-2000s will still kill a base in 3 hits, but they are so buggy/hard to use i wasn’t able to actually test it properly (I gave up)

So in the Tornado Gr1 I can still run 12x Mk13s to kill 2 bases in a single sortie.

So i’ll just run that instead of my usual 12x Mk83s for 2 bases (use to run Mk83s as there was less overkill as well as a little less drag) or my more common loadout of 8x Mk83s with 2x Fuel Tanks. (I like being able to basically ignore my fuel and use ripple mode) Though I will miss having some flexability to hit something with 2 bombs and still get a base kill. I suppose I can still drop one, on something, but just doesnt seem as worth it.

Buc S2 can still hit the exact same number of bases I would have done before, but with no wasted ordanance. (Can carry 16x Mk13s. first 12 are twin release, last 4 are single release, so could have hit 3 bases with 4 bombs and then turned around and hit them again with the 5th. But I always just dropped 6 per base for the first 2, and then 4 on the third)

Jaguars are also the same. Max you can run is 6x Mk13s, so now its a base kill with no overkill.

(So almost a tiny buff for some bombers as there is less overkill)

What annoys me more than the shadow change. Is just how tiny it was. (almost feels a bit petty) 5 Mk13s was just barely not enough. Same with 6 Mk83s. If it was 50% HP increase, then I’d almost understand it. Means more bombs per target, less tickets lost through bombing, etc. It would be a way to nerf bombing without overly nerfing bombers . But instead it was a tiny tiny buff. Just enough that many multi-roles no longer have enough bombs to kill a base in a single sortie or like the other 3 Tornado IDSs From 2 bases per sortie down to 1 and a bit per sortie.

So Britain (in some jets) might be in the very rare position of actually being buffed by one of GJ shadow changes. That is a strange feeling. Though overall this is not a good change.

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ZB-500 x4 still kill a base.

shouldn’t the number of bases and ground targets be increased first?

You can already combine a lot of weapons. 1000Ib and or 500Ib and or 250Ib and Rockets or only Rockets…

My answer is biased by my playstyle. I strongly prefer the large maps. These maps have a pretty decent number of targets and respawn quickly enough that it’s only an issue with more than about 6 players actively bombing bases. I agree that the smaller maps with 2 bases can be annoying, especially when flying something that has trouble bombing the bases by the AF when AF AAA is effective.

I’d definitely like additional variety, and it would be nice if the smaller maps had the same density of bases and quick respawns. Including ground target tracking radars that could find visually camouflaged targets (same via thermals), would be fundamentally different targets. Different visual models would add variety, but wouldn’t change gameplay unless they had more complex game mechanics tied to them. While I think that would be fun, my personal preference would be improving the cockpit experience first and making sure it’s polished across all planes.

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yes sounds good.

At minimum every setting available for bomb series needs to be added to ripple modes. The OP for this thread also put this suggeston in Aircraft suspended weapons ripple quantities and interval - Interface - War Thunder - Official Forum a while ago and I think this recent change highlights the value for this kind of fidelity even more.

I guess Gaijin wanted to give us more RP for base bombing. Yesterday I played SeaHarrier with 5x1000 lb. Those can’t destroy whole base anymore, but when I made 2nd bombing destroying remains of that base I get more XP, than before HP change. Overall this change was in Gaijin’s style. They just forgot to increase some bombs damage.

They are not going to adjust the damage output so you can bomb a base in one pass after they make an HP adjustment. They never did when they adjust base HP in the past, and a very high chance they never will.

You have to play another aircraft that can carry more bombs of the same type, or can carry a different bomb type that has more explosive mass.

If not, just deal with it and make a second run.

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