Comprehensive proposal to Improve the proposed Grouping of vehicles

Game Discussion General Discussion
1

The recent Roadmap dev blog shows the changes proposed for the techtrees.

People in the comments and forum seem to be happy, but when you look into the details I find there are a lot of mistakes and nonsensical folders, and in other areas already existing folders are taken apart even tho they were just fine as is.

I’d like to propose my changes here.

Thanks to @super_cacti who basically went through the trees with me and we put together this list to help make the proposed changes both more streamlined and more in line with vehicles already in game

I’m going to take the tech trees shown in the dev blog and comment on the changes I propose.

The biggest change I propose is to folder vehicles based on Vehicle Type.
The way it currently looks seems to be based on vehicle performance and BR, and whether or not the foldered vehicles even have the same playstyle is not considered.

Air

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USA

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Rank 1

  • Folder together the P-36A and P-36C.
  • unfolder the TBF-1C and the SBD-3. they are two different vehicles and the kingfishers are not attached to the line so they do not affect the grind.

Rank 2

  • Keep the Naval plane line mostly the way it currently is in the game presently, the only real change you need is to folder the buffalos and make a folder for the early f4u corsairs.
    • Lower the rank for the F2A-3 to rank 1 and folder it with the F2A-1.
    • Remove the F6F-5 from the F4F folder.
  • (Potential folder the b-25’s )

Rank 3

  • Folder the P-63A-5 with the P-63A-10 and P-63C-5.
  • Folder the F4U-4 and F4U-1C.
  • Move the PB4Y-2 to Rank 4 and folder it with the B-24D

Rank 4

  • Remove the F4U-4B from the F6F-5N folder.
  • Remove the AM-1 from the AD-2/4 folder, and put it before that folder.
  • Remove the B-24D from the B-17G folder, and folder it with the PB4Y-2 that has been moved to Rank 4.

Rank 6

  • Unfolder the A-4B and the FJ-4B
  • (Potential) folder the F-104’s

Germany

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Rank 2

  • (Potential) Folder the Bf-109E-1 with the other E’s.

USSR

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Rank 1

  • Keep it mostly the way it already is.
    • Folder all I-16’s
    • Move MiG-3-15 to Rank 2 and folder it with the other MiG-3’s.
    • Folder all SB-2’s in one folder.

Rank 2

  • (Optional) Folder the IL-2 (1941) with the other IL-2’s.
  • (Optional) Separate the DB-3 and IL-4.

Rank 3

  • Remove the Yak-9U from the Yak-3 folder, and move it to Rank 4.
  • Folder the I-185’s.
  • Move the Su-6 (M-71F) to Rank 4.

Rank 4

  • Make a Yak 9 folder with the 9U, 9P and 9UT.
  • Make a Yak 3 folder with the 3P and 3U.

Rank 5

  • Seperate the La-200 and La-15.
  • (optionally) folder the mig 17 in with the mig 15s

Rank 6

  • Seperate the MiG-19PT and MiG-21F-13.
  • Folder the Su-7B and Su-7BKL.

Great Britain

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Rank 1

  • (Optional) Separate the Blenheim and Beaufort.

Rank 2

  • (Optional) Folder Sea Hurricane Mk IB and Mk IC.
  • Folder all Wellington’s.

Rank 3

  • Separate Brigand and Whirlwind.
  • (Optional) Move the Whirlwind to the Left fighter line, after the Typhoon Mk Ib/L.

Rank 4

  • Keep it mostly the way it is.
    • Separate the Spitfire LF Mk IX from the Spitfire Griffin folder.
    • Folder all the Griffin Spitfires in one Folder.
  • (Optional) Separate Lincoln and Shackleton.

Rank 5

  • (Optional) Separate the Meteor Mk 8 from the Mk 4’s.
  • Separate Sea Hawk and Sea Venom.
  • Separate Canberra B (I) Mk 6 and Canberra B Mk 2.

Japan

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Rank 2

  • (Optional) Separate the A6M2-N and N1K1.
  • Make a Ki-44 folder and Ki-61 folder. Not have them mixed the way it is shown now.

China

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Rank 1

  • Seperate Ki-27 and Ki-43.

Rank 2

  • Seperate DM-3A and SB-2M-103U.
  • Seperate P-40E-1 and P-43A-1.
  • (Optional) Move the P-40E-1 to the attacker line, after the A-29.

Rank 5

  • Seperate J-2 and J-4.

Rank 6

  • Seperate J-6A and J-7II.

Italy

Spoiler

Rank 1

  • Keep it exactly the way it currently is ingame with small changes.
    • These changes include:
      • Folder the B.R. 20’s.
      • As shown in the proposed changes, have the Early S.M. 79 folder move to Rank 1.

Rank 2

  • Separate the C. 202 and 205.
  • Create a C. 202 folder with the C. 202EC (As detailed in the Rank 3 section)
  • Move the C. 205 to Rank 3.

Rank 3

  • Move the C 202EC to Rank 2 and folder it with the C. 202.
  • Create a C. 205 folder with the C. 205, C. 205N2 and C. 205 serie 3 (As detailed in the Rank 4 section)

Rank 4

  • Separate G.55 and Re.2005.
  • Move the G.55 Serie 1 to Rank III and folder it with the G.55 sottoserie 0.
  • Move the C.205 serie 3 to Rank III and folder it with the other C. 205’s.

France

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Rank 1

  • Move the M.B.174 to Rank 2 (The way it is currently in-game)

Rank 2

  • Separate V.G. 33C-1 and D.520.

Rank 3

  • (Optional) Folder the VB.10’s.

Sweden

Spoiler

Don’t move Swedish planes to the Finish line!

Rank 1

  • Seperate J6 and J8.

Rank 3

  • Move the J26 out of the Finish line. Move it to before the J-21A-3, while still a t Rank 3.
  • Move the T18 folder to Rank 4.

Rank 5

  • Move the A28B out of the Finish line.

Rank 6

  • Move the J34 out of the Finish line.

Israel

Spoiler

No changes are required.

Ground

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USA

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Rank 1

  • Folder the M3 Stuart’s.

Rank 2

  • Move the M4A3(105) back to the Third line (Where it was before)

Rank 4

  • Seperate the M4(T26) and T25.
  • Move the M46 to Rank 5.

Rank 5

  • Make a Patton folder that has the M46, M47 and M48.

Rank 6

  • Remove the the IPM1 from the M1A1 folder, and folder it with the M1 Abrams

Germany

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Germany is too compacted and will not follow the 3 vehicles per rank per line rule.
If this rule is to stay, then add another line specifically for open-top tank destroyers. And have the current SPG line for casemate tank destroyers only.

The proposal given is a huge mess, and too much work to correct. Instead, we will take the current in-game example and make changes based on that. So any changes proposed below are not of the new model, but of the current in game one.

Rank 1

  • Re-class the Sd.Kfz.222 as a light tank and folder it with the Sd.Kfz.221. This frees space for the Sd.Kfz.6/2 who gets moved down to Rank 1.
  • Folder the Pz.IV C, E and F1 (Who get’s mvoed down to Rank 1)
    Only the leftmost line has 4 vehicles in their line. This cannot be fixed easily without making another mess.
  • Sperate the flak panzer I and flak panzer gepard

Rank 2

  • Move the Pz.38(t) N.A. to Rank 1 and folder it with the other Pz.38’s.
  • Move the Sd.Kfz.234/2 to the Pz.III line.
  • Folder the Pz.III J1 with the Pz.III L and M.
  • Folder the StuG III F and G.

Rank 3 and 4
You could folder vehicles like the Tiger 1’s. Or the Early Panthers, but it is also not needed.

Rank 5

  • Move the Marder A1- after the BMP-1.
  • Folder the Marder A1- and 1A3.
  • Move the DF105 to the leftmost line after the Marder folder.

Rank 6

  • Folder the Begleitpanzer 57 and TAM, since they are both Export vehicles on the same chassis.
  • Move the M48A2 G A2 to Rank 5 and folder it with the M48A2 C.
  • Folder the Gepard 1A2 with the Gepard. And keep the Ozelot after that folder.
  • Move RakJPz 2 (HOT) to rank 5 and folder it with the RakJPz 2.

USSR

Spoiler

Rank 1

  • Folder the BY-7 and BT-7M.
  • Folder the T-26 and T-26-4.
  • Folder the T-28 (1938) and T-28.
  • Folder the GAZ-AAA trucks.

Rank 2

  • Move the T-28E to Rank 1 and add it to the T-28 folder.
  • Seperate the KV-1 and KV-2.
  • Folder the KV-1S with the KV-1.
  • Seperate the ZIS-30 and SU-57B.
  • Move the ZIS-30 to Rank 1.
  • Move the GAZ-MM (72-K) to Rank 1.
  • Seperate ZiS-12 (94-KM) and ZiS-43.

Rank 3

  • Remove the SU-85 from the SU-152 folder.
  • Remove the SU-85M from the ISU-122.
  • Folder the SU-85 and SU-85M.
  • Move the ISU-122 to rank 4.

Rank 4

  • Seperate the SU-100 and ISU-122S.
  • Folder the ISU-122 and ISU-122S.

Rank 5

  • Separate the BMP-1 and Object 906.

Rank 6

  • Separate the BMP-2 and Object 685.
  • Seperate BMP-3 and 2S25.
  • Move 2S25 to Rank 7 (Where it currently is in-game)
  • (Optional) Folder the BMP-3 and Object 685.

Rank 7

  • (Optional) Folder the 2S25 and 2S25M

Great Britain

Spoiler

Rank 1

  • (Optional) Folder the Stuart’s.

Rank 2

  • (Optional) Folder the SARC armoured cars.

Rank 3

  • Separate the Challenger and Comet I.
  • Separate the Ystervark and Crusader AA Mk II.
  • (Optional) Folder the Ystervark and Bosvark.

Rank 4

  • Separate Tortoise and Conway.
  • Separate G6 and Eland.
  • Move Eland or G6 to Rank 5.

Rank 6

  • Separate Warrior and ZT3A2.
  • Separate Marksman and ZA-35.
  • Seperate Rooikat and Olifant (e).
  • Seperate Rooikat and Olifant (I).
  • Folder the Rooitkat’s.
  • Folder the Olifant’s.

Japan

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Rank 4

  • Separate the Type 60 SPRG and Type 60 ATM.
  • Move the Type 60 ATM to Rank 5, and to the tank destroyer line. (Back to what it currently is in-game.)

Rank 6

  • Separate Type 87 RCV and Type 89.

China

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Rank 3

  • Seperate T-34 (1943) and M4A1 (75) W.
  • (Optional) Move M4A1 (75) W to Rank II and folder it with the M4A4.

Rank 4

  • Separate Type 63-I and Type 62.
  • Seperate M36 and ISU-122.

Rank 5

  • Seperate ZTS63 and ZBD86.

Rank 6

  • Seperate CM25 and PTZ89.
  • Move CM25 to Rank 5.
  • Seperate PTL02 and AFT09.

Rank 7

  • Folder the WZ1001(E) LCT with the ZTZ99A.

Italy

Spoiler

Rank 2

  • Seperate the M15 and Pz.III.

Rank 3

  • Separate the 90/53 M41M and StuG III G.

Rank 4

  • Separate AUBL/74 and FIAT 6614.
  • (Optional) Move the FIAT 6614 to the tank destroyer line after the M36B1

Rank 6

  • Move the M113A1 (TOW) to Rank 5.

Rank 7

  • Seperate the Dardo and VCC-80/30.

France

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Rank 2

  • Seperate the B1 and 2C.

Rank 4

  • Separate CA Lorraine and ELC bis.

Rank 5

  • Separate Lorraine 40T and Char 25T.
  • Move Char 25T to Rank 4.

Rank 6

  • Separate MARS 15 and AMX-13 (HOT)
  • Move the AMX-13 (HOT) to the tank destroyer line.
  • Seperate AMX-10RC and SK-105.

Sweden

Spoiler

Rank 3

  • Separate the Pvkv m/43 (1946) and Ikv 103.
  • (Optional) Move the Ikv 103 to the leftmost line.
  • Folder Pvkv m/43 (1946) and Pvkv m/43 (1963).
  • Separate T-34 and Pz.IV.
  • Separate PT-76 and Comet I.
  • Move Comet I to Rank 4.

Rank 5

  • Separate the Strv 101 and Strv 103A.
  • Move the Strv 103A to Rank 6.

Rank 6

  • (Optional) Separate the CV9030FIN from the Strf 9040, and move the FIN to the Finish line.
  • Separate Strv 104 and Strv 103C.
  • Folder the Strv 103A and Strv 103C.
  • Folder the Strv 104 and Strv 105.
  • Separate the UDES 33 and Pbv 302 (BILL).

Rank 7

  • Seperate the Lvkv 9040C and ASRAD-R.

Israel

Spoiler

No changes are needed.

21 Likes
2

This looks good

1 Like
3

this is so well made and i agree mostly with you in the ussr air tech tree

4

I wonder where is the flakpanzer 38 (t)? Oh, with flakpanzer 1.

I have a few objections in German tech tree:

Frankly, I’d make it’s SPAA designation stay, but move it to rank 2 and give it scouting ability. Meanwhile Sd.Kfz.6/2 can go down to rank 1, as it is quite vulnerable, similar to other flakpanzers. The 222 at least has a miniscule armor.
Otherwise, I’d agree with these changes if spawn point system was improved in GRB - light tanks do not become more expensive together with other tanks and SPGs, for example.

I’d keep the panzer 38(t) n.a. at rank 2, so it has it’s scouting ability.

I’d move it to rank 3 frankly.
Meanwhile for leKpz M41, I’d move it to rank 5, whereas rank 4 could have vk 1602 leopard, if it’s going to be implemented.

5

I also have a few gripes with German air tree - there are no West Germany planes (aside from premiums) in rank 5. Which basically means that I cannot have a proper West Germany/Bundeswehr lineup.

For me, it looks odd that I’d have to resort to borrowing stuff from WW2 or even the Warsaw pact for a lineup…

6

We tried to keep it in line with the rule gaijin set of only 3 vehicles per line per rank, and this was one of the most logical ways to do so, as the sdkfz 222 is quite literally a light tank, so it being in the spaa line is illogical. which is the reason for all the choices we made that you mentioned

7

It’s an armored car in reality. And, in a sense, yes, a light tank, sorta.
But I’d rather classify it as SPAA, since it can serve in that role.

Being a reconnaissance armored car does not go against being a potential SPAA. Some SPAAs in higher tiers have scouting ability, so… why not let this one have it as well?

I mean, in game terms, I would agree to move it to light tank, but with how Spawn point system works in game now, I’d rather see it in SPAA line instead, otherwise, the only redeeming factor this vehicle has is the speed and slightly better capability to engage aircraft than most other vehicles. Which is not really enough to keep it, the light tank, as a regular, 5-crew lineup option.

8

The sdkfz 234/1 and the 140/1 both have the same mount and are light tanks, so if anything making the 222 a light tank is putting it in line with the others in the tree

9

They are premiums though, so I’m not sure if they count.

10

I would say they count, the 222 is an armoured scout car, in the exact same manner as the puma, and the pz38 derivitive. They are not SPAA, the fact the gun can elevate is just a bonus, its the equivilent of calling the bmp-2 an spaa as it too can shoot down planes

11

I’d say it would count if sdkfz 222 was a premium vehicle, like others.
Or, others were regular tech tree vehicles.

bmp-2 is a post World war 2 vehicle, I wouldn’t really mix it in into our discussion (since it also gets new targets, like helicopters).

From a F2P perspective, someone who does not have access to these premium vehicles, they may as well don’t exist.
Basically, as I said earlier, I’d agree to move it to light tank classification, if the spawn point system was more generous/rational. Otherwise… I’d rather see it as a premium vehicle then, so we wouldn’t have this discussion.

12

Its a rank one, the respawn points difference is neglible, especially if light vehicles like this should be your first spawn most of the time, in order to set up in positions and cap points in the early game. If anything you should be asking for scouting to be given to rank one light tanks.

13

I prefer to move it to rank 2, so it gets scouting ability, and also presents a slight improvement to other SPAAs, in terms of armor.

14

But if its an spaa it wouldent get scouting. It would honestly be better to have light tanks at rank one just get scouting then those locusts and bt-7 roving around at top tier can also scout.

15

Fair enough.
I think SPAAs should also get scouting, since they are quite defenseless often.

I imagined it going from 2 crewed flakpanzers, which are quite vulnerable, then sdkfz6/2 which is a glass cannon (firepower sacrificing armor), and entering rank 2 you get armored cars and halftracks (balanced approach between firepower and armor). Entering rank 3 are tank conversions into SPAAs (armor improvements), which kind of makes it a somewhat logical progression and a sense of evolution.

16

Also something i have just mulled, but because who ever did this BR compression did it based on realistic BR doesnt that mean alot of these folders clearly done due to shared brs instead of vehicle capabilities could rapidly become redundant, especially in regards to the aircraft, as it is not uncommon for planes to raise and drop .3 br. so the change as implemented now will get even more disjointed and impractical as time progresses

1 Like
17

Why? They may not be related but at the end of the day it makes grinding easier which seems like the main focus of gaijin with new folders. There isnt any harm to players.

1 Like
18

Vechicles should not be foldered with vehicles these are in no way related to. Having to grind one additional vehicle is not the end of the world Especially if have changed the folder so the difference remains the same.

19

Can you explain me what is the problem with foldering unrelated vehicles?

20

They play nothing alike, and in often times are completely unrelated in development e.g that Sherman/t34 folder in the chinese tree, or the pt.76 and comet in sweden. For a combination of neatness, and simple logic they should not be combined together, as already stuff is getting lost in folders. As just from a glance here can you tell me what is in these folders

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and then you just have hot messes like this one here:
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where a 2 second evaluation would have made you think “yeah i will just make an oilfant and rooikat folder”.

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if they really wanted to they could folder that first mig 21 in with the other mig 21s which would make more sense. The thing is you still have to grind out 5 vehicles at that rank, so your going to have to do these anyway, so it doesn’t effect your grind in any meaningful way if the changes suggested here are implemented. The fact its clearly for the most part been done with current RB brs also means its going to get even worse as time goes on, especially in air where up and down .3 brs is a common thing every time they rebalance.