I think you need to redo this, the foldering/rank(up + down) choices need work.
1 Like
this whole thing stinks so very very much … all the possible good the vehicle groupings could do will immediatelly fizzle out by the insanely increased grind of adding rank8 and all the rank difference penalties that brings with it. This certainly isn’t improvement.
tons of lower rank vehicles are being moved down in rank to decrease their effectivity (and on rank2/3 border make it impossible to use them for tasks/challenges/events). And at the rank 6 & 7 all the changes are being made only as preparation for rank8 ground vehicles so Gaijin finally has excuse to sell rank7 ground premiums. Oh, wait, looking at the changes they’ve been doing that for years, all those premium vehicles moving from rank6 to rank7 clearly show that those were top tier vehicles the whole time, only masquerading as rank6 so Gaijin can keep the “we don’t sell top tier premiums” lie going … well, good that at least now this lie will be finally dead.
And it is clear that all those soon-to-be-rank7 premium vehicles will now get the price hike from 60$ to 70$ (and similar price hike for GE vehicles) … which is why that part of the announcement was so incredibly vague. Because this won’t go well, since it seems that rank8 is in true Gaijin fashion happening in the most lazy way possible, without any significant vehicle improvements, only as reshuffling of existing vehicles and the already mentioned price hike. Probably with the inevitable infestation of copypastes of existing vehicles as premium variants for nations that currently lack rank6 premiums that could be easily moved up (France, Japan, Italy, Israel, …)
2 Likes
I think the mig 17 is fine at tier 6, its wayyy better for research also there is no reason to nerf your own rewards haha and again I think most of these aircraft are fine at rank 6 as long as there is no br change
I could’t agree more… Don’t ruing a rank III lineup for the USA!
5 Likes
Being wrong must be a past time.
1 Like
I have complied a comprehensive post outlining how to improve the presented changes so that the folders are more comprehensive and in line with both the relationship of vehicles and their actual brs
4 Likes
far better proposed grouping than the current one
1 Like
I personally feel the F-84Fs should all remain at Rank V. They are already very poor aircraft for 8.3, and their only redeeming quality is their airspawn which allows you to bomb a base before getting annihilated by any competent fighter pilot. Moving them to Rank VI removes their airspawn and completely removes any reason for their use in Air RB matches.
6 Likes
If they remove the Magic 2 from the F1C, then it’s BR needs to go down to 11.0. Even with the “fixed” flight model it struggles with the planes it faces on a regular basis. It’s two Magic 2s give it that little bit of an edge when trying to deal with F-16s and MiG-29s and makes it viable. Lossing those means it needs to stop seeing so many of the Gen 4s which 11.0 would take care of.
1 Like
here are some changes i believe should be made, grouped by country, then gamemode, then rank:
USA
AIR
Rank 2:
Folder the B-25J-1 and B-25J-20
Rank 3:
Folder the P-51 and the P-51C-10
F6Fs should be foldered together, not with random planes, move them both to rank 3 and folder them together
Rank 4:
folder the P-51D-5 with the P-51D-30
folder the F4U-4 with the F4U-4B
folder the F8F-1 and F8F
B-24 and PB4Y-2 should be foldered together, with the PB4Y being put after the B-24 at rank 4
Rank 5:
folder the F-80A-5 and F-80C-10
Rank 6:
folder the F-104A and F-104C
FJ-4B should not be foldered with the A-4B as they are not the same airframe, or one designed from the other
Rank 7:
move the F8U-2 up to rank 7 and folder the F-8E with it
Folder the F-4C and F-4E
Rank 8:
invert the F-16 folder, so it goes F-16A ADF > F-16A
GROUND
Rank 1:
folder the stuarts (M2A4, M3, M3A1, and M5A1)
folder the M13 and M15
Rank 3:
folder the M19 and M42
move the M4s back to rank 3, except for the 105
add the M4A1 (76) W to the 76 sherman folder
move the M18 back to the tank destroyer line and make it back to being a tank destroyer, as the US army used it as a tank destroyer, not a light tank
Rank 4:
folder the M26 and M46, as the M46 is an evolution of the M26
Rank 5:
folder the M60A1 and M60A3 TTS
Germany
AIR
Rank 2:
add the Bf 109 E-1 into the Bf 109 E folder
Rank 3:
Folder the A-4 and A-5 Fw 190s together, so A-4, A-5/U2, A-5. A-5/U12, A-8, and F-8
Rank 4:
Folder the Fw 190A-8 and Fw 190F-8
Folder the inline engined Fw 190s together, so D-9 and D-12
Rank 7:
folder the Su-22UM3K and Su-22M4
GROUND
Rank 1:
add the Pz.38(t) A to the Pz.38(t) A/F folder
unfolder the Flakpanzer 1 and Flakpanzer 38
unfolder the Panzerjager 1 and Sd.KFZ.251/9
unfolder the Marder III and StuG III A
Rank 2:
unfolder the Marder III H and folder it with the Marder III
folder the StuG III G with the StuG III F and StuH 42 G
Rank 3:
unfolder the Sturer Emil and 8.8cm Flak 37 Sfl.
unfolder the Nashorn and Waffentrager
unfolder the Jagdpanzer 38(t)
folder the Jagdpanzer IV and Jagdpanzer IV/70
Rank 4:
folder the Ostwind and Ostwind II
unfolder the Jagdpanther and JPz 4-5
move the JPz 4-5 after the M41 or before it, idk
unfolder the Jagdtiger
Rank 5:
unfolder the Marder A1- and SPz BMP-1
unfolder the Marder 1A3 and DF105
folder the Marder A1- and Marder 1A3
Rank 6:
unfolder the TAM and JaPz.K
folder the RakJPz 2s together
unfolder the Kpz-70 and M48 Super
move the Leopard 2k between the Leopard A1A1 and Leopard 2A4
Folder the Gepard and Gepard 1A2
Rank 7:
unfolder the TAM 2C and Radkampfwagen 90
unfolder the Gepard 1a2 and Ozelot
USSR
AIR
Rank 3:
Folder the I-185s
Rank 4:
Folder the La-7 and La-7B-20
Folder the Su-6 (M-71F) and Su-6 (AM-42)
Rank 5:
unfolder the La-200 and La-15
add the MiG-17 to the MiG-15 folder
Rank 6:
unfolder the MiG-19 and 21, they aren’t an evolution of the same plane
folder the Su-7B and BKL
Rank 7:
folder the Su-17M2 and M4
GROUND
Rank 1:
folder the BT-7 and BT-7M
folder the T-28s in rank 1
folder the T-26s
folder the GAZ-AAAs
Rank 2:
unfolder the ZiS-30 and SU-57B
unfolder the ZiS-12 and 43
Rank 3:
unfolder the SU-85
unfolder the SU-85M and ISU-122
folder the SU-85 and SU-85M
add the ISU-122 to the SU-152/ISU-152 folder
Rank 4:
unfolder the ISU-122S and SU-100
Rank 5:
unfolder the BMP-1 and Object 906
Rank 6
folder the Object 435 with the T-62s, or place it before
unfolder the BMP-2 and Object 685
unfolder the BMP-3 and 2S25
Rank 7:
folder the 2S25 with the 2S25M at rank 7
Great Britain
AIR
Rank 1:
folder the Nimrod Mk I and Nimrod Mk II
unfolder the Blenheim Mk IV and Beaufort Mk VIII
Rank 2:
add the Hurricane Mk IV to the Hurricane folder
merge the Wellington folders
Rank 3:
unfolder the Brigand B 1 and Whirlwind Mk I
Rank 4:
folder the Tempest Mk V and Tempest Mk V (Vickers P)
Rank 5:
folder the Vampire FB 5 and Venom FB.4
folder the Meteor F Mk 3, Sea Meteor F Mk 3 and Meteor F Mk 4 G.41F together (Meteor)
folder the Meteor F Mk 4 G.41G and Meteor F Mk 8 G.41K together (Meteor - Clipped)
folder the Swift F.1 and Swift F.7
unfolder the Sea Hawk FGA.6 and Sea Venom FAW 20
Rank 6:
folder the Hunter F.1 and Hunter F.6
Rank 7:
move the Jaguar GR.1 to rank 7
folder the Jaguar GR.1A with the Jaguar GR.1
GROUND
Rank 1:
folder the A13 Mk I and A13 Mk II
folder the Stuart I and Stuard III
Rank 2:
folder the SARC MkVI (2pdr) and SARC MkVI (6pdr)
Rank 3:
unfolder the Challenger and Comet I
unfolder the Ystervark and Crusader AA Mk II
folder the Ystervark and Bosvark
Rank 4:
unfolder the Conway and folder it with the FV4005
unfolder the G6
Rank 5:
folder the Striker after the Swingfire
Rank 6:
unfolder the Warrior and ZT3A2
unfolder the Chieftain Marksman and ZA-35
unfolder the Rooikat Mk.1D and Olifant Mk.1A
unfolder the Rooikat MTTD and Olifant Mk.2
folder the Rooikat Mk.1D and Rooikat MTTD
folder the Olifant Mk.1A and Olifant Mk.2
Japan
GROUND
Rank 3:
folder the M19 and M42 together
Rank 4:
folder the ST-A3 under the ST-A line after the ST-A2
Rank 6:
unfolder the Type 87 RCV and Type 89
folder the Type 87 RCV with the Type 87 RCV (P)
China
AIR
Rank 1:
unfolder the Ki-27 and 43
folder the V-11 and V-12D
Rank 2:
unfolder the DB-3 and SB 2
unfolder the P-40 and P-43
folder the I-16 type 10 and I-16 type 17
Rank 4:
folder the La-9 and La-11
Rank 6:
unfolder the J-6 and J-7
folder the Q-5 early and Q-5A
GROUND
Rank 3:
unfolder the T-34 (1943) and M4A1 (75) W
Rank 4:
unfolder the M36 GMC and ISU-122
unfolder the Type 63-I and Type 62
Rank 5:
unfolder the ZTS63 and ZBD86
Rank 6:
unfolder the CM25 and PTZ89
unfolder the PTL02 and AFT09
Rank 7:
move the WZ1001(E) LCT to be after the ZTZ99A
Italy
AIR
Rank 1:
unfolder the Ju-87 R-2 and Ba.65 (K.14) L
Rank 4:
unfolder the G.55 serie 1 and Re.2005 serie 0
GROUND
Rank 2:
unfolder the M15/42 and Pz.III N
Rank 3:
unfolder the StuG III G and 90/53 M41M
Rank 4:
unfolder the AUBL/74 and FIAT 6614
Rank 6:
folder the OF-40 Mk.2A and lLeopard 1A5
France
AIR
Rank 1:
unfolder the Martin 167-A3 and M.B.174A-3
Rank 2:
unfolder the V.G.33C-1 and D.520
Rank 3:
folder the VB.10C-1 and VB.10-02
Rank 7:
keep the Mirage 5F and F1CT in the 4th line, they aren’t imported american strike aircraft
Rank 8:
folder the Mirage 2000C-S5 and Mirage 2000-5F
GROUND
unfolder the B1 bis and 2C
unfolder the CA lorraine and ELC bis
folder the M4A4 and M4A4 (SA50)
unfolder the Lorraine 40t and Char 25t
folder the AMX-50 and AMX-50 Surbaisse
unfolder the MARS 15 and AMX-13 (HOT)
unfolder the AMX-10RC and SK-105A2
Sweden
AIR
Rank 3:
move the J26 out of the finnish line
add the B18B to the T18B folder
Rank 5:
folder the Vampire FB 52A and A28B
folder the SK60B and SAAB-105G
Rank 7:
folder the AJ37 and AJS37
GROUND
Rank 2:
unfolder the Pvkv m/43 (1946) and Ikv 103
folder the Pvkv m/43 (1946) and Pvkv m/43 (1963)
unfolder the T-34 and Pz.IV
unfolder the PT-76 and Comet I
Rank 5:
unfolder the Strv 101 and Strv 103A
folder the Strv 103A and Strv 103C
Rank 6:
unfolder the Strv 104 and Strv 103C
unfolder the UDES 33 and Pbv 302
10 Likes
Ok and why should they “refund you” RP?
Rank 8 for ground can only happen by moving vehicles around.
Especially if people think rank 9 will ever happen.
This also decreases the amount you have to grind, not increase.
first of all this is very weird at least for me… why is the fw190 d9 at rank 3 now? will its br drop or no?
second of all will we lose progress on tanks like for example i am currently researching the German PUMA im halfway through it and i don’t have rank 7 unlocked yet… now because i dont have rank 7 yet will that mean that i will lose the RP progress that i made on it or no? same with the leopard 2K… i hope we dont lose all progress or be unable to purchase the vehicles even after fully researching them too
2 Likes
Why are the German C.200 and C.202 Rank 1 when the exact same planes are Rank 2 in the Italian tree?
2 Likes
Yes that’s precisely the point of why I want them to remove the Magic 2.
Without the Magic 2 it should go down to 10.7. 11.0 is still too high IMO.
For instance at 11.0 it would still see 12.0 top tier aircraft almost every match (trust me I tried… ).
We can also compare it to an aircraft at 11.0, like the JA-37C for example :
JA-37C can get kills against 12.0 jets thanks to the combination of a decent Pulse Doppler radar and missile as well as great manoeuverability.
Mirage F1C on the other hand doesn’t have the manoeuverability to employ the Magic 1 effectively against fast and agile 12.0 aircrafts and the Super 530F it carries can be chaffed on demand.
The Mirage F1C is nothing special and without the Magic 2 it would not be too much of a threat to aircrafts between 9.7 and 11.7.
Compared to the Mirage IIIE that comes before it, it would carry some more missiles and a better radar at the cost of not being nearly as agile.
2 Likes
You wont lose RP progress, they’ve moved things around a lot over the years. You’ll keep the progress on it but you wont be able to continue researching it until you buy the things its been moved behind.
2 Likes
So far I rather like these changes, yes I think some of the placements are odd but overall I don’t have a problem with them so long as it makes vehicles easier to research.
Though I do have to wonder will the required amount of vehicles to purchase and unlock a new ranked change in some of the trees?
I really like seeing folders being used more extensively, this is great and hopefully would help reduce the overall grind. The main issue I have, and that has been pointed out already by a few people, is how things were ordered. It feels somewhat arbitrary and there are some nonsensical foldered aircraft, while other aircraft are not foldered like they probably should be. US props are a great example of this, as the aircraft are honestly all over the place (ex: the F4U-4B being with the F6F-5N is really odd, shouldn’t it be with the F4U-4?). There are some cases where there are aircraft like the P-51C which should stay in rank 3 given its capabilities, but have been moved down to rank 2. Meanwhile, aircraft like the F-80s and F-104s aren’t foldered when they very easily could be - the restriction on vehicles needed to progress through ranks prevents people grinding too quickly to top tier, anyways.
These concerns are mainly focused on the US air tree but I think it’s applicable to all the trees to some extent.
6 Likes
The two F6f variants are separated by 2 ranks, it makes no sense.
Like what even is this progression?
(Not complaining about less grind, for the record)
8 Likes
I love the sprit of these changes, but there are just so many confusing or nonsensical folders. Most of them are fine, but some just make no sense while others could be tweaked to be more logical.
Selection of folders that I find to be nonsensical and could be redone
Aviation
USA
P-26
The P-26 (M2) is the best of all three P-26s currently in the research tree. In my opinion, its position in the research tree (as well as its reserve status) should be swapped with the P-26A.
P-51C-10 and P-51 + P-51D-5 Folder
In terms of in-game performance, the P-51 and P-51C are much closer to each other than either is to the P-51D-5. In my opinion, the group should be P-51 and P-51C together at Rank 2, while the P-51D-5 remains where it is at Rank 3.
F6F-5
Compared to the F4U-1D, the F6F-5 is equal or higher in Battle Rating in all modes, so it should come after the F4U-1A/D group.
F4U-1C and F6F-5N
The F4U-1C is also higher than or equal to in BR as the F6F-5N in all game modes, and it would make more sense for the F4U-1C to be grouped with the F4U-4B, as they share similar armaments and are the same base model.
PB4Y-2, B-17G-60, and B-24D-25
Foldering the PB4Y-2 and B-24D-25 together would make more sense since they share an airframe and overall design. Moving the PB4Y-2 up to Rank IV to allow for that would not be an egregious change, either.
Germany
Fw 190 A/D
It would be more appropriate, considering Battle Ratings and design similarities, if the Fw 190 A-5 and Fw 190 A-5/U12 were in a folder together, while the Fw 190 D-9 and Fw 190 D-12 were in a folder together, as they are currently. The Fw 190 A-8 could either be placed in the Fw 190 A-5 folder or placed separately.
USSR
MiG-3
Keeping the MiG-3s all in one folder makes more sense in terms of progression, even if the MiG-3-15 is lower in BR than some late-model I-16s.
MiG-19/MiG-21
Although I understand why this was done, as they perform relatively similarly in Air battles, I think this grouping would be better served if an additional MiG-19 and early MiG-21 variant were added and two separate MiG-19 and MiG-21 folders were made instead.
La-200/La-15
The flight performance and usage of these aircraft is very different from each other, they aren’t similar enough to warrant a folder.
Su-7
In my opinion this should be a folder, these two aircraft are more similar than the La-200 and La-15, for example.
UK
Nimrod
Why not just folder them?
Brigand/Whirlwind
These two vehicles share very little in common as their in-game functionality is completely different. The Brigand is a heavy, somewhat cumbersome strike aircraft, while the Whirlwind is an interceptor/heavy fighter.
Japan
Ki-44/Ki-61
I hope this was just a mistake, and not the actual plan. It makes infinitely more sense to have te Ki-44-I and Ki-44-II grouped together and the Ki-61-I Ko and Ki-61-I Otsu grouped together.
J2M
While I understand why the J7W1 may have been moved to the heavy fighter line, moving the J2Ms makes absolutely no sense. They are highly maneuverable and powerful interceptor-fighters, with capabilities similar to the A6M family. There is no logical reason for them to be considered heavy/strike fighters, especially as they can only carry 60 kg bombs!
China
Ki-27/Ki-43
With the relatively low research costs at Rank 1, foldering these two aircraft is not that necessary, seeing as the Ki-43 is a decent amount better than the Ki-27.
CW-21
The BR, especially in RB, warrants it to be moved up to Rank 2.
P-40E/P-43A
This one I can’t really explain concisely, but the P-40 and P-43 aren’t that similar of aircraft.
J-6/J-7
See comments regarding the MiG-19 and MiG-21, as they follow the same general idea.
Italy
G.55/Re.2005
Rank 4 Italy is already quite sparse, I don’t think this folder is necessary from a progression standpoint.
France
VG.33/D.520
At Rank 2, a folder for unrelated (although admittedly relatively similar) vehicles isn’t that necessary.
VB.10
This would be a more reasonable folder compared to the previous. Although the VB.10.02 does improve on the VB.10C-1, the aircraft are still very similar in performance and capability.
F-100D
It would be more appropriate if this came after the F-86K. The F-100 isn’t a strike aircraft.
Sweden
No comment.
Israel
No comment.
Ground Forces
USA
M4/T26 and T25
Although I understand why, I would prefer that the T25 and M4/T26 were not foldered. Although a T25/M26 folder would make more sense, in my opinion the M26 is too “critical” to be foldered away.
M1A1 HC
While I also understand the goal of spreading top tier research across different lines, this just isn’t well-founded. I’m sure most players would be okay if the M1A1 HC came between the M1A1/IPM1 and M1A2/M1A2 SEP folders.
M19/M42
These should be foldered, the M42 offers nothing that the M19 does that makes it worth playing or researching.
Germany
Sturer Emil/Flak 37 Sfl.
These vehicles are so fundamentally different in terms of their performance and playstyle, they should be separated.
Marder/BMP-1/DF 105/SK-105/TAM
These should be regrouped as follows:
BMP-1
Marder A1(-) + Marder 1 A3
DF 105 + SK-105
TAM
RadKpfw 90/TAM 2C
I think these should be separate, but I don’t have a strong justification for why.
Pz. III B/E
Please can you flip the order so they’re alphabetical? 🥺
M 48s + KPz 70
It would make more sense if the Super M48 was foldered with the M48A2 GA2.
Leopard 2K
It would make more sense if it was placed before the Leopard 2 A4.
Panther F
While I agree with the Panther A/G folder, the Panther F is notable for its new turret and should be separate as a result.
SdKfz 222
It should be reclassified as a light tank and moved after the Pz. 38(t) family. Its performance is functionally identical to the SdKfz 234/1, but with less spawn cost and a different classification for arbitrary reasons.
Early Tank Destroyer line
The Marder III should be moved to Rank 2 and grouped with the Marder III H. The SdKfz 221/sPzB41 should be grouped with the Panzerjager I, if anything, while the “Sturmpanzer II” and StuG III A should be isolated.
Jagdpanzer IV/Hetzer
The group should be Jagdpanzer IV + Pz. IV/70, with the Jagdpanzer 38(t) coming before it.
Late Casemate TDs
Both of these folders should be eliminated, as all four vehicles play remarkably differently and share little in common.
USSR
KV-2
It should be moved to the SPG line, the same way the M4A3 (105) was.
T-26-4
Ditto with above, its functionality is more like a SPG than a light tank.
SU-85/M
This should be returned to how it currently is, the SU-85/85M folder makes more logical sense than whatever is going on here with the SU-85 between the SU-152 and ISU-152, and the SU-85M grouped with the ISU-122.
ISU-122S/SU-100
This folder also doesn’t make much sense to me, if anything the SU-100 could be grouped with the SU-85M.
ZiS-12 (94-KM)
It would be more appropriate if the 9-4KM/ZiS-12 were in a folder with the 72-K/GAZ MM.
UK
Caernarvon/Conqueror
Should be moved to the Heavy Tank line, ahead of the Vickers Mk. 1
Charioteer Mk. 7
Should be moved to the TD line, before the FV4005. Even though it was reclassified as a medium tank, it is something of a “spiritual successor” to the Avenger.
FV4202
Should be moved after the Centurion Mk. 3, as the designs are actually related to each other.
Crusader AA Mk II
Should be foldered witht he AEC Mk. II. Their firepower is identical, there is little gain from obtaining the Crusader compared to the AEC when it comes to fulfilling the AA role.
G6/Eland 90
This folder makes little sense, if anything the G6 could be moved to the SPG line.
Olifant/Rooikat
It would be much more logical to have the Rooikat 76 Mk 1D and Rooikat MTTD in one folder and have the Olifants in another.
Japan
M24
It is still unfairly placed at Rank 3 while other M24s are rank 2.
87RCV + 89FV
This folder is completely unnecessary. Not to mention, the in-game functionality of the two are rather different from each other.
M19/M42
Ditto with the American M19 and M42.
China
See the section below.
Italy
M24
Ditto with Japanese M24
France
AMX 30 B2/BRENNUS
This folder is unnecessary.
ARL 44
It has been previously demonstrated that Gaijin is willing to reclassify vehicles regardless of their historical designations. The ARL 44 should be counted as a heavy tank and moved to the heavy tank line accordingly.
ELC bis
Functionally the ELC is not that different from the AMX-13, it could be moved to the light tank line instead of being foldered with a vehicle that has no similarities.
Sweden
Strv 103/104/105
This change make it possible to bypass allthe Strv 103s, which should not be the case. Instead, the Strv 103 A and C should be foldered together, while the Strv 104 and 105 should be together.
Pvkv m/43 and Ikv103
It would make more sense for both Pvkv m/43 to be in a folder together and have the Ikv 103 separate, even if the Pvkv m/43s are somewhat different.
T-34/Pz IV
These should be moved to Rank 2 and removed from the folder. It is unfair to have these vehicles be rank 3 while ther Soviet and German counterparts are only Rank 2.
PT-76/Comet
These should also be unfoldered, they have nothing in common.
Israel
No comment.
Additionally, I am particularly intrigued by the way the Chinese Ground tech tree has been revised. This is a great chance to fix a lot of the illogical progressions in research by making a fifth research branch, but instead it has just shuffled around the existing problem to other locations.
Proposed Revision of Chinese Ground Force Tree
Vehicle Rank/Classification Changes
M113A1 (TOW)
Rank 5 → Rank 6
The Italian one is also Rank 6, so why not. It helps it folder better with the CM25 anyway.
M4A4 and M4A4 (1st PTG)
Rank 2 → Rank 3
Both the French and Italian ones are also Rank 3, so it makes sense and allows it to folder nicely with the M4A1 (75) W.
SdKfz 222
SPAA → Light Tank
Same with the German one, although the lack of APCR belts does make it weaker.
Folder Changes
PT-76
Moved to the “Premiums” section the same way other removed vehicles are.
Type 63/Type 62
Folder removed. While they play similarly, they the folder is not necessary and the vehicles are still distinct.
ZTS63/ZBD86
Folder removed. These vehicles are very dissimilar in ability and playstyle.
M113A1 TOW/CM25
Added to a folder. They are extremely similar to each other.
PTZ89
Removed from folder with CM25 as they share nothing in common.
PTL02/AFT09
Removed from folder. Although they share a chassis, their weaponry is nothing alike and demand different approaches altogether. If another ATGM carrier or wheeled tank destroyer were added, that would make a more appropriate folder.
M4A4/M4A1
Added to a folder. They are related being on the Sherman chassis, and have the same firepower.
M36/ISU-122
Removed from folder as they share nothing in common.
WZ1001/ZTZ99A
Moved into a folder with each other. The basic design principle of these tanks is the same, it makes sense to group these the same way the Leopard 2 A5 and 2 A6 get grouped.
A New Fifth Branch
The fifth branch is designed to properly accommodate the growing number of MBTs China has. Generally, their tanks can be divided into two main camps, those of the Type 59/69/79/80/88/85/96 family, and those of the Type 99 and prototypes. The upcoming MBT-2000, for example, is closely related to the ZTZ99, so placing them in the same lineage makes sense.
In order to properly flesh out the line (otherwise it would only have 4-5 tanks in it), I have suggested additional vehicles, namely the ZTZ99 (Phase 1), the 1226 and 1226 F2 prototype tanks, and the 111 heavy tank. The ZTZ99 Phase 1 has been anticipated by Chinese players for some time, meanwhile the 1226 and 1226F2 would help “pad” the research progression by preventing players from directly researching the MBT-2000 as its capabilities are similar to the ZTZ96A, which is moving to Rank VII. The 111 heavy tank is a possibly controversial addition due to doubts about its completion, but it would serve as a nice bridge between the heavy IS-2 and the prototype 1226.
The ZTZ96B was also added to the Type 59-96 line as a proper “capstone”, as it is the ultimate variant of that family of tanks thus far.
This allow allows the lower ranks to be split up between light, medium, and heavy vehicles. Although placing SPGs (SU-100, ISU-122/152) directly before and after the T-34 and IS-2, respectively, may seem strange, the design relationships between the vehicles makes it seem less awkward. It also allows the TD/SPG line to feel more unified, as the majority of those vehicles are mobile and lightly armored, unlike the SU-100 and ISU vehicles.
ROC Line
The other major change is to group all Republic of China vehicles into one line, excluding TDs and SPAA. Although the difference between an M36 and M48, or an M18 versus an M4 is rather strange, they all share similar design principles as they are all American in origin. Most importantly, all the vehicles included in that line are played like traditional tanks, and not SPGs. Even if the M36 is an open-topped tank destroyer, the playstyle is much more similar to a medium tank like the T-34 or M4 than a SPG like the SU-100 or ISU-122 due to its turret. The addition of the M41A3 was also done to ease the gap between the M18 and M48.
Addendum
The suggested vehicle additions (111, 1226, 1226F2, ZTZ99 (Phase 1), ZTZ96B, and M41A3) is far from an exhaustive list and not meant to encompass all vehicles that I think have a place in the game. These were only the ones I deemed to be most important to the structure of my revised research tree, and there may well be better options or other locations where new vehicles are required.
Ultimately, I think this proposal does a better job of streamlining the research tree while also future-proofing it for more vehicle additions (e.g. ZBD86A could be foldered with ZBD86, more Type 62 and Type 63 prototypes have plenty of breathing space at Rank 2/3, and more breathing space in Rank VI for later Type 59-family vehicles like the 59B, 79, 80, 85, and 88). I hope that at least some of these suggestions are considered to etter-optimize the Chinese ground tree.
The majority of my suggested changes involve removing of folders that were created for this specific update. However, I think that this should indicate a need for a general reduction to vehicle RP costs, rather than simply letting vehicles be ignored altogether.
Additionally, I would like consideration for the removal of the end-of-line RP cost hike that applies to the last vehicle in each research branch. It is unnecessary and only punishes players who have already achieved the highest they can in a given nation.
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