I do get where you are comming from. Seperating these just increases the grind again. But folders should be made based on vehicle type, and not on vehicle BR or just because they happen to be in the same line.
The La-200 and La-15 for example. The La-200 is a twin engine, 3 x 37mm autocannon interceptor. The La-15 is a single engined 23mm armed jet fighter. Foldering these two just makes no sense.
Same goed for the MiG-19 and 21, both the jets are just not the same. The 21 was made after the MiG-19, and it pretty much replaced it. So why folder it with the MiG-19 then where it will be forgotten? It’s an important step in the evolution of Russian Jet development.
Instead what Gaijin should do is invest time in future updates to add new vehicles to existing aircraft and folder those. So they could add a Lavochkin La-168 together with the La-15 in a folder.
And for the MiG-19 and 21’s they could add more exotic versions of them, such as the MiG-19SU High-altitude version (It’s a MiG-19 with a rocket booster under the belly).
So my conclusion is, folders should be used to pair together multible vehicles of the same type. By foldering different vehicle types will just end up making people skip most of them even tho they are important from a ingame line-up point of view, or from a historical development point of view.
Isnt that why gaijin is reducing foldered vehicles research cost? Also having to purchase a vehicle doesnt mean people will play it. I already bought mig21 f13 and havent even crewed it nor i am planing to.
The reduction of RP cost for foldered vehicles will make it more appealing for people to branch of and research more variants of aircraft within folders. It is exactly this that makes it perfect to use folders for more variants of existing aircraft.
In my mind when you progress through the tree you should get progress futher into newer aircraft. MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-21, etc. And folders should be used to add more aircraft of an existing type. In the long run this will make everything look much more clean, and with any future BR changes these folders will also not fall apart.
If you folder two different aircraft types, like a fighter and interceptor, then the BR’s and playstyles between those are constandly changing. This will make the folder constandly change too. And maybe even at some point the folder won’t even make sense anymore because the BR’s of the two foldered vehicles have spread so far apart by BR changes that it will be required that the Folder get’s seperated anyways.
Folders that only include vehicles of the same type or design are much more reliable and won’t fall apart in the long term.
I have also been ruminating on the rank changes, if this goes into effect as they have presented it, alot of tree vehicles are going to become worse for grinding due to them going down in ranks, along with being straight up worthless for doing events as you need a min of rank III and lots of stuff has dipped under that to rank II now
The ranks are another issue of their own, and the more i look the more crop up, Gaijin is going to have to change certain things regarding this or alot of line ups for events have no ceased to exist.
The grind is already too much as-is. What you’re suggesting is right if you want to make the trees more organized, but it doesn’t solve the grind related issues in the game. Gaijin made an argument that they intend to fix some grind issues with the foldering, hence the top priority (considering grind is a significant issue) should be foldering vehicles that are least used under vehicles that are most used.
If grind reduction is not the driving factor, then Gaijin could simply find a different solution and not lay it all on foldering. For example reducing RP requirements overall, or removing module research, which would substantially increase RP gains.
What drives me away from foldered vehicles isn’t their initial RP cost but the fact I’ll have to do like 50 battles to research relevant modules, have 0 fun in the process, and will likely be turned off by that aircraft at that point.
Thats an issue with any stock vehicle after rank 5, you just have to work yourself up to get over the stock hump of what ever it is, be it heat ammo in tanks, to the right missiles for top tier jets.
If you had actually looked at the list of our proposals the number of folders is the same if not a little more than what they presented, without it being a convoluted mess. People seem to have been blinded by the “reduced grind” and have blindly accepted it, when a much more organized tree can be produced with the same number of folders.
Gaijin did it incredibly poorly in the first attempt, with most of the changes seemingly based soley on Br’s. This means after a few rebalancings the folders will make even less sense, especially for air, where small adjustments in br up and down are very common. The proposal we put forward groups vehicles by their chassis or airframe, while keeping the same amount of folders as presented by their initial proposal. Take for example the american naval fighter line, they literally make it a mess, with stuff in folders everywhere, when in game currently all they would have to do is folder the buffalos and early corsairs into two folders to have an identical effect.
I wasn’t responding to the proposal. I think the proposal is good.
Regarding stock grind - does it really have to be that way? People are stuck thinking it would be unreasonable to demand to cancel this, but for a very long time War Thunder existed without the stock grind experience.
New players see how well they can use low tier vehicles without the stock grind, right from the beginning. Then as they progress they’re frustrated with long vehicle research times, and then Gaijin wants to hit them with yet another painful demand (stock grind)? That’s called burning the candle from both ends.
Free FPE and parts (single use) are a nice change, but they were once truly free, multiple uses and all.
Low tier vehicles have AP rounds and have to research more types if they want better penetration or post-pen effects. If the same principle applied to higher tier vehicles, they’d get a weak stock APFSDS, which is actually available for implementation for all vehicles (some don’t have a historical alternative, but there are workarounds).
Stock HEAT is similar to letting low tier tanks start with only HE.
Stock grind is indeed a problem. But I think that it is best handled by some other solution. Because foldering everything together to make peoples grind easier still doesn’t change the stock grind.
If you want my opinion on the matter I strongly think every tank should get a Solid and Chemical round as stock. So for high tier tanks that would be both a HEATFS and a APFSDS. Stock grind with HEATFS is not fun, I’ve been there.
Parts and FPE have never been much of a problem to me since I always play around cap points and I can repair there.
We have come a long way with stock grind tho. So when new people complain about it I always think: “You have no idea kid”.
Stock grind is indeed a problem. But I think that it is best handled by some other solution. Because foldering everything together to make peoples grind easier still doesn’t change the stock grind.
Well that’s the solution Gaijin chose. I’d also rather have some other solution that would allow players to get to top faster without skipping vehicles that could be fun, but if Gaijin said they’ll do it by foldering, then that’s sealed. They don’t actually take any feedback or suggestions so once their mind is set, only review bombing helps.
We have come a long way with stock grind tho. So when new people complain about it I always think: “You have no idea kid”.
What are you referring to? With more tiers added to the game, every tank requires more and more RP to spade, and the balance issues hinder normal progression. If anything, I think it only became worse. The free FPE and parts are just one event but is absolutely overshadowed by the ongoing trend of more difficult-to-spade vehicles being added at the top.
that last part shows how green you are, when i started playing ground the cost of the t54’s and is-3 was the same as that of the arbrams now. they have drastically reduced the rp requirements over the years as more stuff has been added.
