I’ll sort them out later today. Can you say which pics are wrong? I know the m113 is wrong, but I’m still looking through all 90mm turrets.
The FAMAE Piraña is an old CSE 90, the Cardoen Piraña is a CM 90 and i doubt the first Badak picture is the modern CSE 90LP but im not sure
1 Like
Can anyone identify this turret on this Greek Leonidas-2 APC? Said to be the EWS with 25mm Bushmaster but it looks different to the standard EWS turret (if there even is a standard? I mean for vehicles like the YPR-765), some sort of prototype maybe? Or if you have any more info on the turret, would be handy.
I’d be surprised if that was Cockerill
1 Like
You’re right, I confused it with something else, my bad
1 Like
This is a LAV 700 C3105 which was a Belgian Canadian export to Saudi Arabia. Here are more photos:
This. I don’t know what chassis it is but for whatever reason it is using the L3 Harris MX-GCS sights, or ‘off-brand PASEO’:
1 Like
Thanks, I have corrected it.
Yeah, I was a bit confused at that one, as the first vehicle they put the 3105 on was a piranha V, but all sites used that picture, and from that cropped angle the hull for the LAV and the piranha V looked exactly the same.
I just also discovered that the 3030 turret was also used on the LAV 700:
It’s quoted as being:
- LAV prototype
- Piranha III Desert version prototype
- Desert Piranha V prototype
It definitely looks like a mash between the Piranha III Base model and the Piranha V (looking at exhaust location, nose, headlights, wheels, etc. , but with some weird changes…
It’s the Piranha IIIH.
Pictures from the early trials:
Spoiler
And one from Eurosatory 2016
1 Like
I mean, the LAV 700 and final assembly with the turret took place in Canada.
Only because Cockerill was sanctioned at the time and couldn’t directly export the vehicle to Saudi Arabia. Everything else was carried out by Cockerill.
“Everything else” besides the manufacture, design of the finished system, system integration, and ultimate contract through the Canadian Commercial Corporation. I get that it’s a matter of national pride but you’re misinforming people.
The 3105 looks like what the Boxer is going to get in game.
Hey again,
The article you list is fairly ambiguous on who the subcontractor is (Amnesty International France, 2020), but I understand how you could take the quote either way. It even goes on to say that Cockerill was charged with delivering 700 turrets to equip the 928 Canadian vehicles to be sent to Riyadh:
“Un contrat de sous-traitance avec la firme canadienne General Dynamics Land System-Canada (GDLS-C) pour un montant de 4,5 milliards d’euros. Elle est chargée de livrer environ 700 tourelles-canons pour équiper les 928 véhicules blindés légers canadiens envoyés à Riyad.”
However, Chase and LeBlanc (2016) clarify that GDLS-C and CMI Defence are contractor and subcontractor respectively:
“Some of the armoured combat vehicles Canada is selling to Saudi Arabia in a controversial $15-billion arms deal will feature medium- or high-calibre weapons supplied by a European subcontractor – such as a powerful cannon designed to shoot anti-tank missiles.”
“Details about the turreted weapons have been slow to emerge because both General Dynamics Land Systems (Canada) and its Belgian supplier CMI Defence, part of CMI Groupe, are saying little about the contract and subcontract.”
The “contract of the century” quote in the Amnesty International France article comes from this article by RTBF, who state that Cockerill is the subcontractor to GLDS-C (RTBF, 2014):
“En fait, l’entreprise sérésienne est sous-traitant pour le compte d’un groupe canadien. Mais cette commande est capitale: elle consacre la montée en puissance de la branche militaire de la société CMI.”
In fact, the contract for sale to the Saudis was renegotiated by the Canadian federal government (Sevunts, 2020) after the breakdown of trade relations following Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination. Canadian Commercial Corporation is listed as the prime contractor (Chase, 2015) (Perry, 2016).
As well, GDLS owns the license to the finished product as they continue to market it, specifically with the Brazilian Army’s VBC-Cav MSR program.
.
References:
Amnesty International France. (2020). Armes la France, terre d’accueil. Amnesty International. Retrieved from: [Révélations] En France, un centre de formation pour des soldats saoudiens - Amnesty International France
Chase, S. (2015). Ottawa’s arms deal with Saudi Arabia contingent on secrecy. The Globe and Mail. Retrieved from: Ottawa's arms deal with Saudi Arabia contingent on secrecy - The Globe and Mail
Chase, S. & LeBlanc, D. (January 6, 2016). Armoured vehicles in Saudi deal will pack lethal punch. The Globe and Mail. Retrieved from: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/armoured-vehicles-in-saudi-deal-will-pack-lethal-punch/article28046099/
RBTF. (August, 2014). L’entreprise sérésienne CMI décroche un “contrat du siècle” en Arabie. RBTF. Retrieved from: L'entreprise sérésienne CMI décroche un 'contrat du siècle' en Arabie - RTBF Actus
Perry, D. (March 21, 2016). The other side of Canada’s deal with the Saudis. Vanguard Canada. Retrieved from: The other side of Canada’s deal with the Saudis – Vanguard
Sevunts, L. (April 10, 2020). Canada cuts new deal with Saudi Arabia, clearing way for more arms sales. Radio Canada International. Retrieved from: https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/04/10/canada-cuts-new-deal-with-saudi-arabia-clearing-way-for-more-arms-sales/
That’s because it literally is:
The ammunition choices and the addition of the LWS can be argued about, but it very much is the 3105 turret made by Cockerill.
Nice, I didn’t actually know, so…
Yes. After reviewing all the sources as well doing my own further research, you make a valid point. I will amend all my comments in the coming days.
1 Like
Some more additions:
As I keep on searching for more vehicles and more will be brought to my attention, then hopefully this list will expand even more!
30mm:
- KIFV CPWS 30
- Textron Commando 4x4 CPWS
- Piranha III 3030
- Desert Piranha 3030/40
- VBCI 3030
- GDLS-Canada LAV-700 3030
- Patria-AMV Cockerill 3030
90mm
- SIBMAS AFSV-90
- Pindad «Badak» ( Rhino ) CSE 90 (early)
- Pindad «Badak» ( Rhino ) CSE 90LP
- Cadillac Gage Commando Select 90mm
105mm
- KTO MAS 105
- Rosomak 8×8 XC-8-120HP
- LAV 700 C3105
- Piranha IIIH (8x8) 3105
- ZORAWAR
- Kaplan MT
LAV-AG (1981)
GM of Canada pitch for the LAV-AG program. Cockerill Mk III in Arrowpointe Dragoon turret.
LAV-AG(S)
GM of Canada LAV II fitted with LCTS 90 turret with Cockerill Mk 8 gun. As far as I know the Falarick 90 has not been exported to Saudi Arabia, per SIPRI.
1 Like
Thanks, but I won’t include weapon systems that are only cockerill guns, as that would become too big of a post haha
That LAV II for the Saudi’s however looks very nice!
Will you write the suggestion post again on this forum? Then I can easily link it, as the old one will soon be gone. @hydroxideblue
You can let me know when it’s approved ;)
1 Like
I’m actually just waiting on approval 😂😂, way ahead of you!
1 Like