I mean, the LAV 700 and final assembly with the turret took place in Canada.
Only because Cockerill was sanctioned at the time and couldn’t directly export the vehicle to Saudi Arabia. Everything else was carried out by Cockerill.
“Everything else” besides the manufacture, design of the finished system, system integration, and ultimate contract through the Canadian Commercial Corporation. I get that it’s a matter of national pride but you’re misinforming people.
The 3105 looks like what the Boxer is going to get in game.
Hey again,
The article you list is fairly ambiguous on who the subcontractor is (Amnesty International France, 2020), but I understand how you could take the quote either way. It even goes on to say that Cockerill was charged with delivering 700 turrets to equip the 928 Canadian vehicles to be sent to Riyadh:
“Un contrat de sous-traitance avec la firme canadienne General Dynamics Land System-Canada (GDLS-C) pour un montant de 4,5 milliards d’euros. Elle est chargée de livrer environ 700 tourelles-canons pour équiper les 928 véhicules blindés légers canadiens envoyés à Riyad.”
However, Chase and LeBlanc (2016) clarify that GDLS-C and CMI Defence are contractor and subcontractor respectively:
“Some of the armoured combat vehicles Canada is selling to Saudi Arabia in a controversial $15-billion arms deal will feature medium- or high-calibre weapons supplied by a European subcontractor – such as a powerful cannon designed to shoot anti-tank missiles.”
“Details about the turreted weapons have been slow to emerge because both General Dynamics Land Systems (Canada) and its Belgian supplier CMI Defence, part of CMI Groupe, are saying little about the contract and subcontract.”
The “contract of the century” quote in the Amnesty International France article comes from this article by RTBF, who state that Cockerill is the subcontractor to GLDS-C (RTBF, 2014):
“En fait, l’entreprise sérésienne est sous-traitant pour le compte d’un groupe canadien. Mais cette commande est capitale: elle consacre la montée en puissance de la branche militaire de la société CMI.”
In fact, the contract for sale to the Saudis was renegotiated by the Canadian federal government (Sevunts, 2020) after the breakdown of trade relations following Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination. Canadian Commercial Corporation is listed as the prime contractor (Chase, 2015) (Perry, 2016).
As well, GDLS owns the license to the finished product as they continue to market it, specifically with the Brazilian Army’s VBC-Cav MSR program.
.
References:
Amnesty International France. (2020). Armes la France, terre d’accueil. Amnesty International. Retrieved from: [Révélations] En France, un centre de formation pour des soldats saoudiens - Amnesty International France
Chase, S. (2015). Ottawa’s arms deal with Saudi Arabia contingent on secrecy. The Globe and Mail. Retrieved from: Ottawa's arms deal with Saudi Arabia contingent on secrecy - The Globe and Mail
Chase, S. & LeBlanc, D. (January 6, 2016). Armoured vehicles in Saudi deal will pack lethal punch. The Globe and Mail. Retrieved from: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/armoured-vehicles-in-saudi-deal-will-pack-lethal-punch/article28046099/
RBTF. (August, 2014). L’entreprise sérésienne CMI décroche un “contrat du siècle” en Arabie. RBTF. Retrieved from: L'entreprise sérésienne CMI décroche un 'contrat du siècle' en Arabie - RTBF Actus
Perry, D. (March 21, 2016). The other side of Canada’s deal with the Saudis. Vanguard Canada. Retrieved from: The other side of Canada’s deal with the Saudis – Vanguard
Sevunts, L. (April 10, 2020). Canada cuts new deal with Saudi Arabia, clearing way for more arms sales. Radio Canada International. Retrieved from: https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/04/10/canada-cuts-new-deal-with-saudi-arabia-clearing-way-for-more-arms-sales/
That’s because it literally is:
The ammunition choices and the addition of the LWS can be argued about, but it very much is the 3105 turret made by Cockerill.
Nice, I didn’t actually know, so…
Yes. After reviewing all the sources as well doing my own further research, you make a valid point. I will amend all my comments in the coming days.
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Some more additions:
As I keep on searching for more vehicles and more will be brought to my attention, then hopefully this list will expand even more!
30mm:
- KIFV CPWS 30
- Textron Commando 4x4 CPWS
- Piranha III 3030
- Desert Piranha 3030/40
- VBCI 3030
- GDLS-Canada LAV-700 3030
- Patria-AMV Cockerill 3030
90mm
- SIBMAS AFSV-90
- Pindad «Badak» ( Rhino ) CSE 90 (early)
- Pindad «Badak» ( Rhino ) CSE 90LP
- Cadillac Gage Commando Select 90mm
105mm
- KTO MAS 105
- Rosomak 8×8 XC-8-120HP
- LAV 700 C3105
- Piranha IIIH (8x8) 3105
- ZORAWAR
- Kaplan MT
LAV-AG (1981)
GM of Canada pitch for the LAV-AG program. Cockerill Mk III in Arrowpointe Dragoon turret.
LAV-AG(S)
GM of Canada LAV II fitted with LCTS 90 turret with Cockerill Mk 8 gun. As far as I know the Falarick 90 has not been exported to Saudi Arabia, per SIPRI.
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Thanks, but I won’t include weapon systems that are only cockerill guns, as that would become too big of a post haha
That LAV II for the Saudi’s however looks very nice!
Will you write the suggestion post again on this forum? Then I can easily link it, as the old one will soon be gone. @hydroxideblue
You can let me know when it’s approved ;)
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I’m actually just waiting on approval 😂😂, way ahead of you!
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Hello, I just found out about this and Im quite surprised that there is no mention of the LAV-300 Mk.II and what I assume is the Arrowpointe Dragoon 2-man turret with a Cockerill Mk. 3 M-A1 gun in service with the Philippine Marine Corps but was also in service with Panama and Kuwait.
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Ah, that is because there are hundreds of vehicles that just use Cockerill Guns, thus these were not included in the list.
For example: the Cockerill mark III gun was used or trialed on almost every NATO light tank turret at the time, such as, but not limited to, FL-12 and FL-11 turrets on the AMX-13, dragoon turrets, CVRT turrets, FIAT turrets, etc.
I could add a disclaimer for this. This list is mostly focused on vehicles that are at least 50% development or co-developed by Cockerill. (So basically either a Cockerill turret or a fully Cockerill made vehicle).
But definitely thanks for the info! You weren’t the first one to mention how several LAV variants use Cockerill technology.
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Ah so thats why lol, its all good, the info you guys put here helped a ton on my own suggestions. Thank you for the work you guys put in and for making this centralized hub for info (you have no idea how good this is for people researching stuff).
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This looks very similar to a Helio FVT925 Turret also fitted on the GKN Simba and the Alvis Scorpion as a prototype turret for France’s VBCI but I could be wrong.
You might want to start from there I think. Hope this helps!
EDIT:
So yep, Ive never really seen any other turret that has a smooth left side on the front and I cant think of anything else other than the Helio turrets and its really only the FVT925 that has the 25mm Bushmaster but it does not really look like it.
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Thank you! It looks similar but there are slight differences (such as the angle of the left-side plate on the front and the mantlet). I’ll look into this one more, maybe there’s an earlier design somewhere
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And once again some new additions
Mostly for the small and medium calibre:
Small Calibre 20 - 30 mm
- Panhard CRAB CPWS 30 (ZTM-1)
- RTD VAB Mk. 2 CPWS 25
- RTD VAB Mk. 3 CPWS 25
- RTD /Arquus Sherpa Light CPWS 25
- panhard CRAB 4x4 - CPWS 25
- RTD VAB Mk. 2 CPWS 30
- Panhard CRAB CPWS 30 (M230LF)
- RTD Arquus Sherpa Light CPWS 25 gen. 2
- MCV-80 IFV (C25)
note: RDT is now known as Arquus, but panhard is now also part of RTD/Arquus
Medium Calibre 90 mm
- MCV-80 (CM-90)
- ERC 90 CSE-90
- Doosan Black Fox CSE-90
- Doosan Black Fox CSE-90LP (modern) “Tarantula 90FSV”
- VAB Mark III CSE 90LP
- GKN/Alvis Simba Fire Support Vehicle
- Alvis Piranha II 90mm LCTS
- SK-105 but with a CSE-90MP turret
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Here’s another 90mm, on the SK-105 hull. Haven’t found any other info
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