An Argentine air sub-tree for Germany

Why does Germany need a sub-tree?

Within the German air tree there exist deficiencies due to the fact the aerospace industry was forbidden from making new aircraft after the War, and it never really recovered. As such the German air tree is very limited in its available aircraft, particularly in the areas of CAS and 4th gen ARH jets which are gaps that Argentina could fill. Argentina is a nation with an interesting history with aircraft, and German and Argentine aircraft could complement each other quite well.

Why Argentina as a sub-tree?

Germany and Argentina have always had close relations, in part due to a large German diaspora living in Argentina, but also due to close cooperation when it comes to military matters. Such examples include the Argentine MBT Tanque Argentino Mediano and IFV Vehículo de Combate Transporte de Personal, the IAe 33 Pulqui II designed by Kurt Tank, and the Almirante Brown-class destroyer constructed by Blohm+Voss among many other projects. It has also been confirmed by Smin that all Argentine vehicles will go to Germany.

Objectives behind the tree

When designing this sub-tree I had several considerations in mind. Firstly, I wanted the aircraft I chose to be interesting potential additions to the German tree and that were also significant to Argentina in some way. I avoided aircraft that were either only considered by Argentina or bought but were never delivered, with the exception of the F-16s. I also had to move some existing aircraft to different lines, but this worked out quite well and chances are you wouldn’t even notice it as the line I chose for the sub-tree was already pretty empty. I also wanted to keep the basic structure of the existing tree with no more than two aircraft needed to reach the next rank, with the exception of the rank 4 which already had three aircraft rows. Finally, don’t read into the battle rating I’ve given aircraft too closely, they are only meant to be a very general guide as to an aircraft’s capabilities. Now without further delay…

The sub-tree starts at rank 4 because the previous ranks are already pretty stacked.
New aircraft are highlighted in green, aircraft that were moved are highlighted in yellow.

The Aircraft

Rank 4

IAe 24 Calquin (4.0)


Light bomber/strike aircraft with a superficial resemblance to the de Havilland Mosquito. Powered by two Pratt & Whitney R-1830-G “Twin Wasp” radials and armed with 4× 20 mm Hispano-Suiza 804 cannon with 300 rounds per gun. Could carry 800 kg of bombs and 12 x 75 mm rockets.

IAe 30 Ñancú (5.7)

IAe 30 Ñancú
Heavy fighter powered by 2× Rolls-Royce Merlin 134/135 12-cylinder V-engine liquid-cooled engines and armed with 4x Oerlikon and 2x Hispano-Suiza HS.804, both 20 mm.

IA-58D Pucará (6.0)


Modernisation of the IA-58A Pucará counter-insurgency aircraft. Powered by 2x Pratt & Whitney PT6A-62 turboprop engines and armed with 2× 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.804 autocannons and 4× 7.62 mm FN Browning machine guns. Can carry up to 1,620 kg of ordnance over 3 pylons.

IA-66 Pucará (6.7)


Modification of the IA-58A Pucará to instead fit it with Garrett TPE331-11-601W turboprop engines. Is otherwise the same as a regular Pucará but I thought this version could be given the CITEFA MP-1000 Martin Pescador air-to-surface missile (similar to an AGM-12 Bullpup).

IA-58C Pucará (6.7, Premium)


Single seat version of the IA-58A Pucará with 30 mm cannons and additional armour.

Rank 5

IAe 27 Pulqui I (7.0)

IAe 27 Pulqui I
First jet aircraft developed in Latin America, but poor performance led to the development being cancelled. Fitted with 1 × Rolls-Royce Derwent 5 centrifugal compressor turbojet and planned to be armed with 4 x 20 mm cannons.

IA-63 Pampa (8.3)


Jet trainer and light attack aircraft developed in collaboration with Dornier, hence its similarity to the Alpha Jet. Powered by 1 × Honeywell TFE731-2-2N turbofan engine and armed with a 30 mm (1.18 in) Defa-Giat 554 under the fuselage with 145 rounds of ammo. Can also carry 4x 7.62 mm Colibri Pods as well as bombs and rockets on its 4 total pylons.

IAe 33 Pulqui II (8.3)


Jet fighter designed by Kurt Tank as a development of the wartime Focke-Wulf Ta 183. Powered by 1 × Rolls-Royce Nene II turbojet and armed with 4 × 20 mm (0.79 in) Hispano-Suiza HS.404. Saw limited combat.

F9F-8T Cougar (8.3, Premium)


Trainer variant of the F9F-8 Cougar with a twin cockpit and two of the guns deleted. Interestingly, Argentina was the only operator of the Cougar outside of the US. Powered by a Pratt & Whitney J48-P-8A and armed with 2 × 20 mm AN/M3 cannon with 190 rounds per gun. Can also carry 4x AIM-9B Sidewinder air-to-air missiles and various bombs and rockets.

Rank 6

A-4Q Skyhawk (8.7)


Variant of the A-4B Skyhawk used by the Argentine fleet air arm. Pretty much the same as the A-4B is the US tree as far as I’m aware.

A-4C Skyhawk (8.7)


Improved version of the Skyhawk with a terrain following radar and two additional pylons for extra ordnance on the wings.

F-86F-40 Sabre (9.0)


A regular F-86F-40 Sabre except with the AIM-9Bs switched out for Shafrir 2s . Powered by a General Electric J47-GE-27 turbojet and armed with six 12.7 mm Browning M2 machine guns with total ammo pool of 1800 rounds. In addition to the two Shafrir 2s, two 1000 lb bombs or 16 HVAR rockets can be carried.

A-4P(B) Skyhawk (8.3, Premium)


Another A-4B variant, this one used by the Argentine Air Force. Unlike the A-4Q, this variant is not wired to carry Sidewinders.

Rank 7

Super Étendard (10.0)

Super Étendard
Currently found in the French tech tree, and infamous for its use of the AM43 Exocet missile against Royal Navy ships during the Falklands War. Not sure if like the French version it can use a targeting pod. Nevertheless, it is powered by a SNECMA Attar 8K-50 turbojet, features an Anemone radar and Sherloc TMV011 RWR and is armed with two 30 mm 553 cannons with a total of 250 rounds. It can also carry two Magic 1s and can carry a variety of rockets and bombs over five pylons.

A-4AR Fightinghawk (10.7)


A deep modernisation of the A-4M Skyhawk, the A-4AR Fightinghawk features a new AN/APG-66V2 radar as found on the F-16, an AN/ALR-93 (V)1 RWR, an ALR-47 chaff/flare dispenser, a new glass cockpit with two MFDs, a total overhaul of the airframe, wiring, and engines, and many other modifications. The A-4AR is powered by a Pratt & Whitney J52P-408A turbojet and is armed with two 20 mm Colt Mk 12 cannons with a total of 200 rounds. Other ordnance can be mounted on a the A-4AR’s five pylons, including a variety of bombs and rockets and guided munitions including the domestically produced ARM-657 Mamboretá rockets, AS-25K ASM, and FAS-850 DARDO-II standoff bomb. It’s likely that armaments used by the A-4M could also be used, such as the AGM-65 Maverick AGM-12B and AGM-12C Bullpup, and AGM-62 Walleye. Up to four AIM-9M sidewinders could also be carried.

Dagger A (10.0)


The Dagger was the name given to Israeli Neshers that were in service with the Argentine Air Force. Pretty much the same as what is found in the Israeli tree.

Finger IIIB (11.0)


An updated version of the Dagger that featured new avionics similar to those found in the Kfir C2. Gained access to AIM-9Ls.

Mirage 5PA MARA (10.3, Premium)


Updated former Peruvian Mirage 5Ps, these folded into the Dagger/Finger fleet as replacements suffered from losses during the Falklands War.

Rank 8

Mirage IIIEA (11.3)


Mirage IIIEs operated by the Argentine Air Force, similar to that which is found in the French tree but with various small differences such as the different tail and lack of the ground radar hump… Later upgrades introduced the AIM-9M.

F-16BM Fighting Falcon (12.0)


Former Danish F-16BMs that were offered for sale to Argentina as a counter-offer to the Chinese JF-17. The F-16BM is the two seat training version but still features full weapons capability, with some reduced ammunition for the M61A1. Despite being Block 15 F-16s, these are highly upgraded and the ability to use AIM-9X and AMRAAM, as well as full air-to-ground weapons capability. If limited to AIM-9L or AIM-9M this could make a good strike aircraft at 12.0.

F-16AM Fighting Falcon (13.0)


Like above, this is a former Danish F-16AM offered to Argentina, this time the single seat variant. This version could come with all the bells and whistles while being at a higher BR to cap off the end of the Argentine sub-tree.

Also, a big thankyou to @OsO73, his Argentine air tree suggestion was a big help when making this.

17 Likes

On one hand… yes.
On the other hand I’d prefer it be part of the Latin America tech tree.
Especially since Germany doesn’t need Argentina as a sub-tree.
I’d prefer a different nation like Switzerland in Germany personally.

2 Likes

Frankly I think a Latam tree is unlikely anytime soon. If it so happens that one does come along, the vehicles can always be moved.

We get a new nation about every other year, and a SA tree would at least be after Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia so that’s 6 or 7 years from now at least.

And Korea

Also I think it has been over two years since Israel by this point. Unless you count Finland and Hungary which I personally don’t.

1 Like

Definitely will fix that gap between the F4 ICE and Typhoon

1 Like

Israel was added in early 2022 so it’s been pretty close to 2 years exactly. Hopefully we get Poland this year but we’re getting off topic.

1 Like

What gap though?
12.7 - 13.0 for F-4F ICE. Then 13.3+ for Typhoon when F-15C MSIP, Rafale, Su-30, etc are added.

2 Likes

Well Smin has repeatedly said that we are not anywhere close to Typhoon which is 4.5 gen. So there is a situation where there are 4th gens with ARH but Germany doesn’t have anything like that. Just 3rd gen with ARH, which can’t compete.

Also, Tranche 1 Eurofighter has no air-to-ground options. Which means Germany will have to wait for Tranche 2 or above for their first multirole fighter which is years away. I think every other nation has one now except Germany.

1 Like

As a German main I would like this addition.

2 Likes

“No where close” can mean 3 major updates or 1.5 year.
It doesn’t normally mean years.
Tranche 2 would be the same BR as Tranche 1 if they chose to keep AAM loadouts identical.

1 Like

+1, this is an incredible suggestion. Vehicles fill gaps, have interesting histories, and are excellently balanced.
A few notes on balancing:
Why is the A-4C so high BR? I’m assuming it’s just what ordinance it has but it would be nice to have that explained.
Shafrir on the F-86F-40 is Shafrir 1 (AIM-9B eq.) not the much better Shafrir 2 (AIM-9G eq), right?
As I’ve said on the specific A-4AR suggestion, AIM-9M on such an aircraft would be unbalancible. AIM-9L at 10.0 or 10.3 would be perfect.
F-16BM with AIM-9M would definitely be at least 12.3.
What version of the AMRAAM would the F-16AM use? I’d expect an F-16 with AIM-120B and AIM-9M would be 13.0, so the F-16AM with AIM-9X would be at least 13.3, likely substantially higher depending on what AMRAAMs it uses.

And honestly the relocated aircraft fit better in that line anyways.

3 Likes

Depends on what gajin add soon

1 Like

I’d want the the Tranche 1 to have just AIM-9s in terms of IR missiles, so the first Typhoons would all have identical weapons loadouts (instead of Britain just having the straight up better ASRAAM) and equivalent IR missiles to other nations’ (US, USSR, Japan, China) first fox-3 4th gens for balancing and so they can come sooner.

Yeah, I personally don’t want AAM-5B, IRIS-T, MICA IR, R-73M, AIM-9X on anything new.
I just want what we have, and similar IRCCM systems to what we have that way the BRs don’t get out of control for fun stuff.

1 Like

Especially since AIM-9X, AAM-5, and R-73M are much more modern so they are contemporaries of AAM-4, AIM-120C/D, and R-77-1 and not the earlier Fox-3s.
MICA-IR would be alright but obviously having only France with a FPA missile would be broken. Better IMO to have an F1 Rafale with EMs only and later an F2 alongside Tranche 2s and other nation’s equivalents.
But we’re getting off topic lol.

I wouldn’t read too much in to the battle ratings, it depends a lot on what ordinance Gaijin decides on giving. But yeah, the A-4C should be at 8.7.

As for the F-86, I believe they carry Shafrir 1, not 2, so it would be equivalent to the F-86F-40s we have in-game already.

As for the A-4AR, AIM-9L would probably be a safer option. It can always be changed to AIM-9M later if necessary.

2 Likes

I agree that once we have ARH missiles, things need to slow down for air. I already feel like we have advanced too quickly with 4th gens.

My leading theory behind why they went fast is to discover the maximum BR to have a baseline for BR changes.
Cause once they know the maximum BR for air, they can change BRs around for both air and ground, including decompression, far easier.

1 Like

Fr and I need to stop derailing the discussion but it’s wild we have the F-15 before the F-101, F-106, or F-94. Gaijin just makes money off hype more than anything else and modern vehicles are more hype than old ones.

1 Like